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Post by Franklin1 on May 2, 2013 20:54:46 GMT 10
Gosh, Ray!...you certainly like "living on the edge"...30 days!! I quite like the colour scheme on the inside. Green is good. I hope you didn't include that second-hand shed in the property sale. Pack it back up and take it with you! Man, you're gonna be knackered by the time this is all over. Best wishes for the next 30 days... ;D cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on May 2, 2013 20:47:40 GMT 10
Nup, send 'em to kaybee. It's all HIS fault!
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Post by Franklin1 on May 2, 2013 10:35:02 GMT 10
Here ya go, Ray... It took me less than an hour to clean up both rings with the soldering iron... A square edge on the soldering tip is a key point. If the edge starts to round off during the job, you'll have to stop and file it square again. Keep thinking "bulldozer blade" and it works well. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on May 2, 2013 8:44:06 GMT 10
G'day Ray, The internet says the application of heat will soften old putty and make it easier to remove. Some say a hot air gun will do (but watch out for the glass cracking if it's still in position). Knowing that a 40 Watt soldering iron will soften and remove cured Bote Cote glue, I tested whether that would also work on old putty. Yep, piece of cake... You do need to have a square edge on the end of the solder tip, to act as like a bulldozer blade. A rounded tip will keep wanting to slide over the top of the putty. Above all, let the heat do the work for you. Don't force the soldering iron through the putty. Just gently push into the putty. Remember how fragile the aluminium is underneath - very easily marked/damaged. Go for it! cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on May 1, 2013 17:07:39 GMT 10
Success! Praise be to the "kaybee porthole dismantling process"! Thought I might as well document the step-by-step process, in case other people are like me, and have no idea... I cut a circle out of 12mm scrap ply to cover the glass diameter... Got out my heavy duty timber base, and laid one of those cutting mats on it to cushion the aluminium a bit. Then put the window on the mat... Put the ply circle on the glass, and a couple of tea towels around the perimeter to stop any shattered glass flying around... Close eyes, hold breath, count to three...and WHAMMO with the rubber mallet... One belt dislodged most of the inner ring. Two more softer thumps with the hammer made sure the ply had gone right through. Open one eye and squint out of the corner, to see if a major disaster occurred . Lift outer ring away from inner ring... Note how the putty was originally applied, both to the base and the wall of the outer ring... The outer ring is fixed to the ply with three brass screws, and not two nails as I first thought... Undo the three screws and lift the outer ring off the ply. Note the crusty, crumbly old putty that was under the outer ring... This old putty just flaked off the ply easily when flicked with my finger... The inner ring is distorted a little bit when the hammer blow occurs, and now won't sit flat on the surface... I used the same ply circle and rubber hammer to try and flatten that down again. Not completely successful, but it gets back to being "near enough"... And that's really about all that happens. Have to clean all the old putty off the aluminium rings, and get new glass, but the steps above are the main steps involved. ------------------------------------------------------ Some observations: - Notice how there is no paint on the ply under the outer ring or the inner dress rim. I guess the bare ply on the outside wall is relying on the linseed oil in the putty to stop it weathering. - Neither of the inner or outer ring is a perfect circle of exact dimensions all round. Width will vary, so it makes good sense to mark the top position of both rings so you can put them back together again how they were originally... - I wouldn't try and get "too cute" and try to belt the inner ring out of the window while the window is still fixed in the wall of the van. As kaybee has said elsewhere on this forum recently, the aluminium in the outer ring is very thin and fragile, particularly where it curves from the outside down into the wall opening. I think this is the sort of job where it's best to have the complete window lying on a bench. To do that, you have to cut the three screws anchoring it into the wall ply. Maybe small boltcutters, or a hand hacksaw, can help with cutting the screws... - I pity anyone with glass in their porthole window that has an etched picture on it. Don't know how it could ever survive this process. - The little screws used to fix the inner ring to the outer ring, and the inner dress rim to the wall, are pretty well rusted out over the years. These will be replaced with stainless steel screws in the final van... And lastly, I had a go at panelbeating a couple of dents out of the outer ring... Almost succeeded, but the first timber "punch" I used to knock the dent out had a sharp edge on it...which split the thin aluminium. Oops! I carefully hammered the two sides of the split back together and will fill the backside with sealant. I switched to another smoother timber punch for the other dents, and that worked better... Hope this helps any "newbies" planning on doing something similar. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 30, 2013 12:54:34 GMT 10
Has anybody actually dismantled a porthole window into its components, perhaps to get the glass replaced, or to reseal the window? How did you do it without damaging the aluminium rings?? I'm having a cow of a time trying to work out how to pull mine apart without damaging them. These are the two windows, as salvaged from the demolition... On the inside wall there is a dress rim... Undo all the screws, and that dress rim easily lifts off the ply... The dress rim is there purely for decoration, and plays no part in the structural integrity of the window (so we'll ignore it for the rest of this discussion). The outer part of the window consists of 3 main parts - an outer ring; the glass; and an inner ring. From what I can see, the outer ring is fitted first into the hole in the ply wall, and then nailed into the ply. If you can understand my cross-section diagrams, this is how I think it was done... Once the outer ring was nailed in two places, a bed of putty was applied, followed by the pane of glass, and lastly followed by the inner ring, which is held in place with three pan-head screws... I've got the three pan-head screws out (which took some careful effort to achieve), and now I need to get the inner ring out. I've tried using a sharp chisel to carefully break the bond between the inner and outer ring... ...but all I'm really doing is bending the inner ring out of shape and leaving chisel blade marks on the aluminium... Would there be some sort of special tool I need, to be able to break the bond between the two rings? It almost seems like I need a good strong feeler gauge that I could force down between the two rings without damaging the aluminium. Any ideas, anyone?? cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 28, 2013 13:20:57 GMT 10
The first part of this post is just a bit of nonsense about screws... To overcome the issue about tension in screws, if I have to back the screw off to get the slot lined up, I'm cheating and applying a dollop of adhesive to the screw hole first... The beauty of the polyurethane adhesive is that it expands a bit as it cures, so any slight gap between the screw head and the timber is taken up by the adhesive. You can fiddle with the screw head until it's tight enough but lined up correctly... Then the excess glue is wiped away with a tissue... In fairness to the "Practicals" (as opposed to the "Purists"), I'm using phillips head screws in any framework that is out of sight, or is subsequently covered by plywood or other timber mouldings... I've already wasted 10 slothead screws that ended up being covered by other timber strips that I decided to add in after a bit of thinking. I can't see the point in wasting them when they can't be seen in the finished project. ------------------------------------------- I've had a couple of wins this weekend with the project... I went over to the local Builders Recycling Shed yesterday, scrounging for the old-style cupboard handle screws with the slotted head... Didn't have any luck in that respect, but what I did discover as I looked through jars and jars of nails, screws, and you-name-it, was all these various slot head screws... Not a bad haul for a few dollars. The other win relates to the table bracket I'm looking for... The ol' fellas that run the Shed used to be TAFE teachers in the Boilermaking Apprentices section. When they took over the Shed business last year, they also brought along with them a plasma cutting machine, and they'll do various things with it for customers. I happened to ask the operator fella whether the machine was capable of cutting the bits needed for the table bracket. "Should do", he says. This morning I went back over with the bracket, and after a few measurements, he plugged the dimensions into the computer and flicked the switch... What an amazing bit of gear!! I want one! ;D Have a look at how good the cutting is for the small disc that fits into the back of the pipe. This is the original... ...and this is today's effort... Now my brother has to do a bit of precision welding to match what this machine did. One happy chappy here... cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 25, 2013 21:05:27 GMT 10
I've decided to live with the lean in the cupboards. I figured that if people's eyes can pick up the 2mm difference over a 2 metre length, I can plead the difficulty my failing eyesight has when trying to read a tape measure. Over the last few days, I've built this frame... ...which goes here... Then I traced around the frame onto some plywood and cut it out... ...and that goes on top of the frame. Some additional bits of timber have also been glued to the side walls for the clearance/marker lamps... Next I cut the front face of the cupboard and the cut-outs for the doors... ...and it all fits together like this... A little shelf has been incorporated on the door side. There was nothing there originally... ...and another little shelf has been incorporated on the other side... Earlier in this project, I made the door opening 100mm wider than the original door. It meant everything forward of the door had to lose 100mm off its dimension. The seats are now 100mm narrower in width (but are still 560mm) and the table is 100mm shorter. It also meant the overhead cupboard had to be pushed closer to the front window, and is not as deep as the original cupboard. The overhead cupboards originally were an L-shaped arrangement down the kitchen side and across the front... ...but I decided that arrangement would make that front corner of the van too claustrophobic for the unlucky person who had to get in and out of that seat. That's why I've changed the layout and put a small shelf above that offside seat. Hopefully it will minimise the amount of forehead banging for a tall bloke like me. Anyway, now that I've test fitted all the components of the front cupboard, it's all been pulled apart again and is being finish-sanded ready for glueing and painting. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 21, 2013 21:05:09 GMT 10
Appreciate the comments, fellas Last year a distant relative died, and I was asked a few months ago if I wanted some timber that was stacked in his shed. The property was being cleaned up for sale, and if I didn't want it, then it would go to the tip. The ol' fella was a painter at our local steelworks during his working life, and I'm guessing that when old buildings were demolished and new ones built at the Works, he must have been able to "acquire" whatever he wanted from the demolition (which usually meant getting the dump truck to make a 'detour' on its way to the tip ). Obviously he thought it was "gonna come in handy one day", but unfortunately that didn't happen in his lifetime. Anyhoo, I ended up with a full box trailer load of vintage oregon timber. All of it still painted, but all of it as straight as a die. I spent a couple of hours during the week putting a number of the pieces through my trusty ol' table saw... ...and ended up with this bee-yoo-teefull stash of oregon framing timber... Apart from the new plywood being used in the project, the majority of the framing timber has been begged, bludged, salvaged, scavenged, rejuvenated and reused...including, for example, this door jamb that was cut down to size and now graces the top of the front window frame... And so now the internal framing has commenced. It's a slow process while waiting for the different adhesives to cure properly, so that the next piece of timber can be prepared and put into position. I do have to get creative at times, and think of ways of holding bits of timber in position while the glue cures. Timber props are sometimes the only solution when clamps can't be applied... I got caught out with that piece of timber on the far side of the van... After letting the glue cure for a few hours, I took the prop and clamp away, and cleaned off the surplus glue with a chisel. I thought the glue would have cured enough to hold the timber in position, but when I checked another few hours later, the timber had actually sagged down the wall a couple of millimetres... By the time I discovered it, the glue had actually cured completely, and it was too late. I couldn't budge it back up into position. Ah well, lesson learnt...leave all props in position for at least six hours. The overhead cupboards are going to have a slight "lean" in them on that far side. Hopefully the ol' fella is looking down from above and nodding his approval at where his stash of timber ended up. ( "As long as that bastard Smithy over the road didn't get it!" ) cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 21, 2013 19:04:29 GMT 10
This van must have caused the "great tea towel rail shortage" that afflicted the caravan industry in the 1950s.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 20, 2013 19:42:29 GMT 10
We'll have to set him a bigger challenge, cobber! ;D ... ... to find one of these "new fiberglass and aluminium" models that were exhibited at the Sydney Caravan Show in late 1961... Wonder which bits were fibreglass and which bits were aluminium? cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 18, 2013 20:25:46 GMT 10
G'day Jeff, Not an expert, but I can draw some conclusions by looking at the major players from that time. The biggies, Viscount-Millard-Franklin, seem to have made the switch to the laminate facings around about 1964. There are examples of 1963 Viscounts posted on this forum recently, and they have the painted doors. Lisa's 1965 Viscount (Lisa from the VV magazine) has laminate doors. I've got an early 1964 Franklin on file that has painted doors, and another chassis number 400 later has laminate doors. But then Jennison might have been the trailblazer when it came to using laminates, and maybe the others followed his example. He was certainly ahead of the pack in some of the other things he did. I'd probably be inclined to think your van wouldn't be earlier than, say, 1962. And I'm only saying that on the basis of working backwards from the years the others introduced laminates. The industry was pretty competitive in the early '60s, and none of them would allow any of the others to get too much of an advantage. If, for example, Jennison introduced laminates first, then I suspect the others wouldn't have been too far behind. I may well be totally out of whack with my "guesstimate", when you find the date written in pencil under the kitchen drawer. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 18, 2013 10:18:20 GMT 10
G'day Maree, I'm pretty sure the painted design on the side of your van is the one used for the 1965 Viscount models, even though the actual vans could have been built between mid-1965 and mid-1966. The models seem to have changed mid-year in those days. If you study the pictures closely, you can see in this newspaper advertisement how the painted design differed between the Viscount and the Ambassador models (it's easier to compare the two drawings on the right - Viscount up top, and Ambassador down the bottom)... cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 18, 2013 10:03:39 GMT 10
G'day becsta, and welcome to the forum! ;D Somebody's miscalculated the year of your van. It's more likely a 19 74 Viscount, and looks to be the Ambassador model. You would be better off advertising the van on our sister forum for Classic Caravans built from 1970 to 1979. Click hereTo check the year of manufacture, look on the front drawbar next to the jockey wheel clamp. There will be a letter and some numbers welded there. The letter will be either an A, R, or S and the numbers can be from 3 to 6 characters in total. The very first number after the letter is the year of manufacture, so for example 3 = 1973; 4 = 1974; etc. This numbering system only applies to Viscounts built from 1973 to 1979, and your van would fall between those years. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 16, 2013 21:56:33 GMT 10
Yes, I was about to say the same thing, humpyboy, so thanks for that. I just did a search and there were 78 references to asbestos found, but I can't guarantee any of them specifically relate to Ambassador vans.
I doubt whether there would have been anything unique about Ambassador vans anyway. They came off a production line like other vans did. Same sort of parts and equipment went into them that went into other vans.
cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 15, 2013 22:29:01 GMT 10
As I was saying... After an hour or two of fitting and glueing all the contact points, and nailing the ply to the cross-beams, I was able to stand back and admire the result... Now comes the rebuild of the front overhead cupboards. I salvaged the front face of the original cupboards in the demolition, so at least I've got some measurements to work with... I'd previously carefully rubbed back the paint on one of the doors with soapy steel wool, to see what the various layers of paint showed. It would appear the blue paint is the original top coat, and is now 53 years old. I could only detect three different colours - a purple primer, a yellow undercoat, and the blue top coat... More fun and games tomorrow ... cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 15, 2013 18:05:13 GMT 10
G'day Ray, You can come over to my shed and practice anytime. I've got four of the blessed things that I've accumulated over time. One is fitted in a router table, another is a jumbo Makita 1/2" bit size, and I recently bought a cheapy Ozito from Bunnings for freehand routing with 1/4" bits. The fourth one is an old palm router. Remember the "Skil Sher" brand of tools? It goes wayyy back. Burnt the motor out in it a few years ago, but can't bring myself to chuck it away, because you can't get this size anymore. Thought I might be able to get the motor rewound...one day... I scored an old fold-up table off the footpath the other day. "Free to any home", it was... It's been put into service for the project as a "painting table" ... Over the weekend, I prepared the next sheet of internal ply for above the front window, and fitted it today. Man, what a drama! The radius of the bend was just about on the breaking point for the 3mm ply. Have you ever had a situation where you try and fit something that's under tension, and you get one end in, and then you go to the other end to fit that end, and the first end pops out of position? This sheet was the same, but four corners popping out all over. After trying to test fit it a few times, I gave up and went and had a cuppa while I thought of a "smarter" way of doing it. I ended up putting some "end stops" in the four corners, and getting two adjacent corners in position to start with, followed by much grunting and groaning with the other side of the sheet to force it up and on the other two adjacent end stops. Two hands heaving on the edge of the sheet, and my head pushing the sheet up into the bend curve. What a sight...and such language!! This is the sheet finally in position, showing the two end-stops on the bottom edge... I had to make some special end-stops out of scrap timber for the other side, to make sure the ply edge ended up halfway on the cross-beam timber... Gotta go have a shower and go out for a social event. Will come back later and finish this off...
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 14, 2013 23:18:44 GMT 10
Great bit of detective work, there, hilldweller! Isn't it fascinating delving into the history of these old vans? If only each of these vans could speak for themselves, ay?! I was quite astonished to read on the internet news recently that the whole of the North Island has been "drought declared"! Worst drought in 30 years, they say. Gosh, I thought you could only get one colour in NZ...everything green. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 14, 2013 23:08:56 GMT 10
G'day Jim, Fascinating read so far! As you say, it will surely come in handy for other owners of Franklin Minis in the future. I posted some info in the other Techo thread where you asked about the walls and the edge sealing tape. Keep the story going! ;D cheers, Al.
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ABC van
Apr 13, 2013 21:27:03 GMT 10
Post by Franklin1 on Apr 13, 2013 21:27:03 GMT 10
Whenever I look at that ABC photo, I think of the opportunity missed by the photographer for those of us interested in history. Had the photographer gone back another few feet or so, he/she might have captured the whole of the caravan sign in the top left corner. Then we'd know who built the van.
Although I suspect it might be the Jennison mob in Artarmon, Sydney. From memory, the ABC studios were in Gore Hill in those days, which is only a hop, step and a jump away from Artarmon.
cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 13, 2013 19:39:36 GMT 10
G'day willow, Nice bit of foam cutting. I still have to get to that stage with the project I'm working on, but looking at your photo, I wonder if a different configuration of the foam would make for a "more comfy" bed. You see where that lazy layabout's bum is lined up with the middle join? I wonder if you put a wide cushion at the head end, then the other wide cushion next, and the two narrow ones last at the foot end, would you eliminate having a join where his bum is likely to press down? It seems that that would be the case when I mentally shift the cushions around in my head, but is that how it would be actually? (...and he's not really a lazy layabout . I can see he's a highly skilled foam tester. ;D ) cheers, Al.
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ABC van
Apr 13, 2013 18:37:16 GMT 10
Post by Franklin1 on Apr 13, 2013 18:37:16 GMT 10
You in big trouble, olivna12 You haven't been studying the old tow couplings thread and memorised all the different couplings, have you?! This one is in Reply #211 posted back in Feb. Cobber's gonna come over to your place and make you write 100 times: "I must read the tow couplings thread" "I must read the tow couplings thread" "I must read... You in big trouble, olivna12 ;D ;D ;D cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 13, 2013 12:16:55 GMT 10
G'day Jim, Hopefully I can give some snippets of information that might be useful for your van. Franklin built a brand new factory at Wendouree, next to Ballarat, in 1967. This "state of the art factory" included new production methods, one of which was the construction of the walls for the caravans. The new method was to build them laying down on a large bench, and then lift them to the side of the van as a complete wall. The wall was made as a "sandwich", with the cladding, frame, and internal ply all glued together with 3M glue. I can't recall anybody on the forum actually dismantling a Franklin from the new factory, but I suspect you will have a bit of a challenge trying to pry the internal ply off. I guess a lot will depend on how well the 3M glue has stood up to time. Quite often we see the glue bond in the actual layers of normal plywood lose its adhesion over the years since the vintage days, so it's quite possible the 3M glue also suffers from an ageing process, and ends up being easy to separate. If you end up having a go at it, keep in mind that you'll become the resident expert on the forum for other Franklin owners, because I think you'll be the first to do it. It's interesting to hear you talk about the tape used on the corner joints. I have a bondwood van in the shed which is allegedly a 1956 Franklin van. I bought it 7 years ago, and it is still sitting on a "To Do" list, waiting for the restoration fairies to come and give it a cuddle. About 5 years ago, I attempted a start on that project and took some of the roof cladding and side cover strips off (it's not the same van as I'm working on now - One can't have too many of these projects, can one? ). The roof was originally bondwood with a duck canvas cover. A number of years after it was built, the roof was covered with galvanised sheeting. I took that galv sheeting off when I was mucking around with the van. Each sheet was soldered at the lap joint, but funnily enough just inside the lap joint there was a strip of the same sort of tape that you speak of... This is the van, and you can see the mid-level horizontal joint in the ply, and the darker strip of the same tape. The tape was also under all the J-moulds on the edges (right hand photo), but unfortunately had not permanently protected the four bottom corners of the van, which ended up getting severe woodrot (something you should check closely on yours)... This is a close-up of me peeling the tape away from the side wall joint. Just as you have found, the tape on my van was quite flexible and looked like a cotton woven tape that was saturated in some sort of sticky substance. After peeling the tape away, the remaining sticky residue could be cleaned off with turps... At the time I was mucking around with this van, I started to do some research about that tape, trying to find out what was available these days that would be a good substitute. I discovered on one of the internet caravan parts suppliers websites that they listed a Denso tape that was apparently used for sealing caravans in the old days... When I made some enquiries, they no longer stocked it, as it was no longer used in the caravan industry. I searched for the Denso website, and they make various sealing tapes for the mining and heavy industry applications. But unfortunately for you, that's where my story ends. I never went any further with the research because the project got shelved. But I'm sure somewhere out there, there is a tape that would be a great substitute for the tape you've got on the van. Hope this helps in some way. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 12, 2013 11:03:14 GMT 10
This'll fool 'em Doug, ay?! They'll think it's a safe deposit box ... Meanwhile, elsewhere in the project... I like to make elongated holes for the cables rather than round holes... Two holes drilled side by side and joined together is better than one large diameter hole. It means less timber is taken out and minimises the timber weakening factor that holes cause. Here is the start of the seat box framework, and also showing a power board in the background... The orange gizmo on the board is a double pole knife switch, which allows two power sources in, and one out. It's for the 12V lights, and allows power to come from a 240V:12V transformer option, or 12V battery option. The curve of the seat box at the front was a bit tricky to create. I ended up cutting a template out of scrap masonite, and using it to mark out the plywood... There were no ends on the original seat boxes, so I don't know what kept the cushions in place on bouncy roads. This time around, it's getting some fancy ends that have an outline that looks like a 1960s TV chair that would have been in the loungeroom... You can roll the edges of the ply by hand-sanding...or you can cheat and use a router like I did ... See you next time... cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 11, 2013 13:34:12 GMT 10
Thanks for the 'Like', Ray (you ol' hip internet user, you ). As a little side story, I actually invested in a small internet start-up company last year. They were developing a new social platform which was a cross between Facebook and Twitter. It looked promising, but for some reason the name Twitface never took off. Clearance lights? Yep, it doesn't need them legally (only 6' 7" wide), but it had them originally up on the top front sides, so they'll go back there in the rebuild. I can guarantee I won't miss any wiring, and nor will you be able to see any of it once the project is completed. cheers, Al.
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