Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Thread Started on Nov 2, 2006, 9:33pm »
G'day All, We seem to have lost the original thread relating to this van in the For Sale/Wanted section, so I've started a new one here. I picked the van up from Wagga RAAF Base yesterday, and this photo was taken just outside the Base...
and here it is at its new home at Warilla...
The box at the front covers an ENORMOUS condensor unit which runs the fridge in the van. It seems that an enterprising person has converted the original ice box into a refrigerator...
On the way home from Wagga, I stopped at a BP Service Centre just up the road a bit from the Dog on the Tuckerbox at Gundagai. I was having a break when I spotted another vintage van pull in for petrol. I grabbed my camera and took this paparazzi shot...
...and then they spotted my van on the trailer, and came over for a chat...
They had bought their van on eBay as well, and had travelled from Port Macquarie down to western Victoria to pick it up, and were on their way back home again. So we ended up having a mini vintage caravan rally in the carpark!!
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 4,130 Location: Newcastle NSW
Re: Second project « Reply #2 on Nov 3, 2006, 10:03am »
Hi franky1 take no notice of the "tea totalling types" on this site. All australian boys need a fridge and i reckon its a top idea. says reddo who is getting jack of the prices that servos are charging for stuff that barely rates as "ice".
good luck with the resto mate. its all FUN. keep us posted.
Joined: Apr 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 577 Location: western sydney
Re: Second project « Reply #3 on Nov 3, 2006, 11:22am »
Hi everybody, Yes from previous and current experiences fridges rule...plus their harder to knock off.....aint that right Mr ( Im down an esky ) Reddo.......Cheers Dave
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: Second project « Reply #4 on Nov 27, 2006, 8:30pm »
G'day All, I'm about to pack up and move to a new property about 30kms north of where I now live. I'm aiming to tow the "Second Project", but I was concerned that in its original condition it would attract unwanted attention from the local "patrols". So on the weekend I did a "backyard caravan blitz" to make the van look more presentable. Anything that didn't move got painted, and on many parts of the van it is only the paint that is holding it together. I have to store the van outside at the new place for a few months until a new shed is built, so the paint job will help to stop it falling apart completely. This is a sneak preview of what the van will look like when it is finally restored properly...
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: Second project « Reply #5 on Jul 3, 2010, 7:41pm »
G'day All,
You might remember I had this van up for sale on the forum recently. There were a few enquiries, but nothing finalised. I was going to go to Plan B, which was to put it up on that auction site, but had a rethink and instead skipped straight to Plan C, which was to put it back onto my "To Do" list.
Just to recap, this is what the van looked like inside and outside...
The first step was to salvage all the windows; brass and stainless steel screws; cupboard doors; any other useful hardware; aluminium stoneshield, etc etc...
During the demolition, I discovered a humungous ants' nest across the full bottom rear end. When I disturbed the outer ply cladding, the ants spewed forth like lemmings over a cliff. And big buggers too, not the little black ones. A scientific discovery I made at the time was that ants don't swim too well when flooded with flyspray ...
The icebox had been converted to a fridge at some stage, so all of the compressor and associated pipework had to be cut away...
I salvaged the galvanised water tank, complete with radiator cap filler pipe, and drain plug...
Eventually I got down to the bare chassis...
A trailer load of ply, plus the compressor unit, was taken to the tip...
If you are ever asked the question at a Trivia Night, the weight of all the ply from the floor, walls, roof, seats, bed frame, and cupboard frames was 170kgs, plus 10kgs for the compressor. (The tip costs are on a weight basis, so you get weighed in and out.)
Now to the important bit. This is the third caravan I've stripped down to expose the chassis in some way. In all three vans, I'm seeing a common problem of severe corrosion (rusting) of the chassis rails along both sides. It is not easy to realise the corrosion is there when you look at the outside cladding. The cladding may look reasonably ok from the outside, but the moisture trapped between the cladding and the chassis from water leaks is proving deadly to the metal. On this van, almost the whole perimeter of the chassis has been affected to some degree, in some cases perforating the metal...
It would be a huge coincidence that I've come across the only 3 vans so affected, so it should be something that people pay attention to when assessing vans for purchase.
Where to from here? Hmmm...not sure. I've alread sussed out suppliers of C-channel on the internet, and you can't get the same sizes that these old chassis were made from. I might have to see if I can get some specially made to suit the required repairs. Has anybody had any success in actually buying suitable steel channel??
The final plan for the van will depend on being able to get the chassis sorted out. I'd actually like to build a longer van, using this chassis but extending it. Then I'd recycle all the windows, etc, back into the new van. But, not sure about any of that yet.
Joined: Dec 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,961 Location: Western Sydney
Re: Second project « Reply #6 on Jul 3, 2010, 9:21pm »
Hi Al. I see you followed Reddos demolition instructions. Yep, always a worry once you discover one bit of rusting,there`s bound to be more. Better to have found out this way than unexpectedly later on. As for the C channel - lengths of angle seam welded to form the profile. Cost? No idea,just a thought. cheers gordon
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: Second project « Reply #7 on Jul 16, 2010, 6:07pm »
I've been tinkering with the chassis over the last few days. Trying to wire brush the rust off the parts that will be "reused" in some future project, and then giving them a coat of primer to protect them temporarily...
So there I am stepping in and out of the chassis framework, as I go about the business of rotary brushing the surface rust. As I put my foot down into one of the openings, I unintentionally step on the brake cable and put my piddling 85kgs of weight on it. Snap! goes the brake cable...
Yes, yes, yes...I know we should check and renew these sorts of things where necessary in our restorations, but has everybody done that?!
Re: Second project « Reply #8 on Jul 22, 2010, 10:37pm »
G'day Al ,
Nice can of worms there? Did you keep any of it?
Bloody Van Ants, they must have been related to my Van Ants.
Little buggers!!
As I'm a newby I'd love to know how the pro's go about it, out of interest did you copy templates from ply, keep any of the original frame to use as templates or did you draw or do you have plans to rebuild off.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: Second project « Reply #9 on Aug 10, 2010, 4:13pm »
It's been a cold, wet, and miserable day here today, so I'm rugged up in front of a warm computer instead.
Plodding continues on the chassis of this caravan, but today I'm spending some time trying to get a clearer picture on the possible origin of the van. I know from elsewhere on the forum that John Walsh was a director of Carapark Caravans, and started Newcastle Caravans before renaming it John Walsh Caravans.
After delving around the forum a bit, I've come up with some possible connections. It seems that a Carapark Cardman, cobber's Newcastle caravan, and humpty2's bondwoodCastle caravan hold some clues.
The front face of cobber's, humpty2's, and my van are similar, including the rolled awning above the windows...
The kitchen sink cupboards are a similar design in a Carapark Cardman, humpty2's, and mine...
The "Newcastle coupling" or Locktite coupling, are similar on cobber's, humpty2's, and mine...
So, I'm now a lot more confident that my van is a Cardman-Newcastle-Castle van, or maybe a Newcastle-Cardman-Castle van, or maybe a Castle...
When I first bought the van, there was some scribble on the rear, but I don't know what the significance of it is...
Fibreglass fantasia!....1 Sunliner, a Carlight Continental plus one for spares (fibreglass roof & ends)...... also a late 30's masonite van and a teardrop thingy, plus a 52 homemade plywood van ................. EH Premier S/Wagon & '54 FORD Skyliner V8 for my towcars.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: Second project « Reply #11 on Aug 10, 2010, 9:09pm »
Hi humpty, yes I did notice the handles and hinges were the same.
I think out of all the possible matches I've explored throughout the forum, your van comes the closest. In your thread, I can see a close-up photo of the profile of the aluminium in the window frame. That same profile is on my windows...a sort of "lightly ridged" moulding. The wheel arch cut-out is the same, and so are the self-tapping screws left behind in your chassis rail after the bondwood has rotted away.
Our vans must be "brother and sister" models. If not, then close cousins for sure. How do you know yours is a Castle? I'm thinking if mine is a Castle, I should have the castle etching in the port-hole window glass...but the glass could have been replaced over the years.
I don't know whether that Newcastle hitch was used on brands other than Newcastle vans, so that's something I can explore.
The other guessing game I'm playing is trying to determine the age of my van. It has FJ wheels (with brakes), so along with the port-hole windows, the aluminium window moulding appearance, and the icebox, I'm thinking it's from around the mid-1950s. Have you made any guesses about the age of yours?
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,495 Location: Newcastle
Re: Second project « Reply #12 on Aug 11, 2010, 7:45pm »
I have called mine a Castle because of one I saw on Ebay for sale which was exact in every detail to mine. The only thing is I don't have portholes just normal windows, same as the one that was on Ebay.
Fibreglass fantasia!....1 Sunliner, a Carlight Continental plus one for spares (fibreglass roof & ends)...... also a late 30's masonite van and a teardrop thingy, plus a 52 homemade plywood van ................. EH Premier S/Wagon & '54 FORD Skyliner V8 for my towcars.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #13 on Jan 16, 2011, 9:30am »
G'day All,
For a couple of months late last year, I spent a fair bit of time wire brushing the chassis back, and giving it a couple of coats of primer to protect it while it sat outside in the elements, waiting for some further 'developments'...
These 'developments' were to discuss the resurrection of this van with my brother, who is a boilermaker, and who has the necessary welding skills to fix up the rust-riddled chassis.
I, however, have the skills to wield an angle grinder like a maniac, so I got the job of cutting all the chassis perimeter off...
And because Photobucket seems to cack itself every time I try to load more than two photos, I have to do this story in installments. Stay tuned.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #14 on Jan 16, 2011, 9:55am »
When I was sussing out whether to proceed with this project, or whether to 'burn it', I discovered you can't buy C-channel steel to suit these old chassis anymore (not good), but I did discover you can buy RHS tubing that WILL suit. (RHS=rectangular hollow section) An 8 metre length of 75mm x 25mm tubing cost me $88, and the project was back on the board.
First I had to draw up a plan of the chassis, and cut the RHS into pieces and form them up to fit to the chassis. The old sage advice of "measure twice - cut once" is a fallacy if your plan measurements are wrong in the first place. No amount of measuring twice, three times, or more, will fix up a "muck-up" in an incorrect drawing. All I can say is "Thank God" for bits of angle iron I had in the shed.
My brother finally got through a recent illness, and found some time last week to come over and start on the job. Here's the new chassis perimeter being worked on...
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #15 on Jan 16, 2011, 12:48pm »
There were a few things around the chassis that needed attention...
There were four weld breaks that required rewelding. The worst two were at both ends of the spring shackles on the nearside. Obviously this van has been pummelled by a few potholes in its previous life...
The front handbrake had some dodgy welding next to where the pivot bolt was fitted through. My brother ended up fashioning a new handbrake out of bits of metal I had. I'm reminded of the Crocodile Dundee movie where Mick Dundee says, "That's not a handbrake! This is a handbrake!!", or something like that. ...
We still have to work out how we're going to have the ratchet locking system for the handle (the question mark in the photo). There was nothing there originally, so I'm not sure what they did to apply the parking brake. Maybe just chocked the wheels.
The right hand rail for the step had originally been incorrectly positioned for the width of the step, so it needed to be shifted a bit further to the right during the welding repairs. The right hand wing of the step had also been bashed about to fit in the misaligned rail, and needed to be 'panelbeated' back to how it should be...
A chassis number mysteriously appeared on the drawbar, which surprised me because I couldn't find one there before. Perhaps I hadn't taken enough paint off. A check of some indepth research written on a scribble pad in my back pocket shows this chassis number to decode to:
NC = Newcastle 60 = 1960 -01 = Ummm, not sure...January?...the First chassis that year??...the First one of these vans I ever had???
In the absence of any other information, I've decided that this van is something to do with John Walsh (or at least it has his coupling) and is from somewhere around the 1960 mark...
The other odd thing that happened is that the coupling fell off my workbench and landed on an engraver. Amazingly, some words and numbers appeared...
The patent number for the Locktite coupling was the only ID on the coupling originally, and even that had been bashed around by somebody with a hammer...
Hopefully the surprise identities that have mysteriously appeared on the van will be satisfactory to the rego authorities when that time comes.
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 4,048 Location: Camden nsw
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #17 on Jan 16, 2011, 7:55pm »
G'day Al,
All the signs are there that she is a John Walsh/Carapark creation. The step is exactly the same as my "Newcastle" 'van. The chassis construction is the same... only shorter & the Locktite coupling is the same. I didn't have to fiddle with the hand brake design on mine it works OK as it is.... you pull the lever up and poke a nail through the holes to hold it in position. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/mate/Newcastletowcoupling.jpg
Like yours they put a rivet straight through the middle of the Patent number but once the brand name and max. weight mysteriously appeared I had no trouble getting it through the Blue slip man.
Have you tried getting a 50mm ball in and out of the socket ? you might find it a tight fit but...... it can be fixed, see reply # 29 on my Newcastle thread.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #18 on Jan 16, 2011, 8:49pm »
G'day cobber,
I remember reading that info you posted recently about the towball diameter and the Locktite coupling. I also remember my eyebrows being raised at the time, because I'd towed this van about 35kms four years ago from my old place to my current place. I'd plonked the van on my standard 50mm coupling at that end, and unhooked it at this end, all without any problems. Then when I read your info I thought, "Sugar! Don't tell me I towed the bluddy thing with it not sitting on the towball properly!?" Now I'm a bit paranoid about making sure it fits properly when I hook it up again in the future.
The weld breaks in the chassis suggest the van has had a bit of a hard life on the road in the old days, so maybe the coupling has also been worn out a bit with all that bumping and thumping around.
Thanks for the photo of the handbrake set-up. That'll give us some more options to consider when we try and sort it out tomorrow.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #19 on Jan 17, 2011, 10:56am »
G'day again, cobber
I see in your Newcastle thread that there is a metho stove in your van...
This van I'm working on came with a Vulcan electric stovette...
About three years ago when I first started mucking around with this van (...how time flies! ), I did a complete restoration on that Vulcan stove. Stripped it apart completely and cleaned everything back to "showroom condition". Even went to the trouble of taking photos of all the parts and numbering the wires so they all went back where they were supposed to go...
Got it all back together again and plugged it in and it went beautifully! For about half an hour. Then it tripped the safety switch in the shed. Plugged it back in and same thing happened. Spent a fair bit of time checking and double-checking everything and plugged it in once more. Same result.
If I ever clean out my shed ( ) I'm gonna take the stove down to the local boat ramp and see if any of the fishos want it for a boat anchor.
But, back to the metho stove! A couple of weeks ago I managed to score a Ravia metho stove on that auction site for 50 cents! Yep, 50 cents! I couldn't believe I was the one and only bidder. It was less than an hour away from your place, and I thought for sure Ol' cobber would sniff this bargain on the breeze, but you must have been facing south all that week.
Anyway, I had to get my ol' violin out and go down the local shopping centre and busk for half an hour to raise the payment, buy hey!, ya gotta be prepared to sweat a bit for the love of these ol' vans, ay?!
This is the stove I won...
Now all I gotta do is restore this one back to "showroom condition"
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 4,048 Location: Camden nsw
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #20 on Jan 17, 2011, 1:09pm »
Al,
They saw you coming mate........ it's missing one of the bar things
As you get older you will realise that there are some things you don't need three of.... I've got two of those metho stoves and a few spare bits (no spare bars though, sorry )
Regarding the Lockite coupling.... I know of three members of our fraternity who have had trouble fitting a 50mm ball into them so like you say..... maybe yours was worn just enough.
I was also surprised to hear that the "C" channel is no longer available
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #21 on Jan 17, 2011, 1:46pm »
Quote:
They saw you coming mate........ it's missing one of the bar things
Ah yes, but what I didn't tell you was that the seller included a 2ft length of flat bar that I can cut to length to replace the missing one! It's just slightly smaller in width than the 'originals', but I can put it in the first or last slot and it don't matter!
Yeah that C-channel dilemma was a pain in the butt. The Aussie steel manufacturers make nothing under 100mm x whatever. One of the internet steel suppliers has stocks of imported channel that's 50mm x something. But there's nothing around the 75mm mark that these old chassis need.
And the weird things is that once you go to the rectangular tubing, you can get 75mm x various widths. Go figure.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,572 Location: Bellambi NSW
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #22 on Jan 31, 2011, 11:02am »
Painting of the chassis has been (almost) completed. Just a few bits to go...
The axle is now getting some attention. With summer almost over, I thought I'd catch up on some late spring cleaning around the house ...
The brass bushes in the spring eyes and the rear hanger blocks are all pretty well stuffed, so replacement bushes have to be fitted, along with new hangers/U-bolts/shackle bolts...
The brake levers are almost worn through from the cable...
Can you buy replacement levers, or do you just cross-swap them over to put the unworn side facing the front?
The axle is going to my brother's mechanic shop for assessment of the drums/hubs/brakes. Depending on whether he thinks they can be refurbished ok or not, I might have to think about upgrading the whole axle to a later Holden set-up. Not sure about any of that yet.
I reckon this van has certainly done some miles in its lifetime. And on some pretty rough roads too, by the look.
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #23 on Jan 31, 2011, 6:23pm »
G'Day Al,
That is quite a project you have embarked upon. I look forward to the updates.
As for the bushes in the springs, they are made from bronze not brass. I reckon they will be a very standard imperial size, likely 3/4 OD and 1/2 ID. These bushes are readily available from most bearing places in various lengths. The worst you will have to do is get a couple and push one in from either side and cut off the excess.
I used a couple of sockets (from my socket spanner set) and the bench vice to push out the old bushes and push in the new ones on the Morris 25 I am restoring.
If you get really stuck finding the bushes, measure them up and I have a place just near work that has them - usually in stock, if not by the next day.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,848 Location: Croydon, Victoria.
Re: 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project « Reply #24 on Jan 31, 2011, 6:35pm »
G'day Al,if I might make a suggestion.....when your springs look like a solid rusty block,it's well worth dismantling the spring pack and cleaning each leaf.....otherwise the spring won't actually do what it's intended job is....spring.....it'll just transfer all the road shocks straight into the chassis and body structure, causing cracking and fatigue in all the joints. It's not a bad idea to add a smear of heavy grease as you re-assemble the spring packs ,makes them nice and limber.....and don't forget to replace the center bolt .....
. What you can do with the brake levers is weld or braze the holes shut ,then re-drill them to the right size for the pins, easy enough for anyone with a welder and drill press..... nice work on the frame so far, cheers, Col.
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