DOLLY WHEELS

[seeshell]

Hi Cobber

I also wondered what order it came in - since the ad is from about 1962, and that one looks similar to mine, they would have to have made the model I have from about 1950 through 1962...unless there were coupling options you could select?

If that's so, then the other Jones wheel would be pre-1950.

Or it had another coupling added by someone who didn't like the inconvenience of the trapped ball - and they added something else? I note their Jones wheels has the same badges as mine elsewhere on the body, but NOT on the ball coupling (as it has a handle instead). It looks quite different.

Are we sure that those are original?

Cheers
Seeshell

[Franklin1]

Here's a scan of a "Letter to the Editor" from the Caravan World magazine, March 1985:

[cobber]

These beaut photos of the “Jones Dolly Wheel” coupling were posted over on the “Tow Coupling Thread” (reply 183) by humpty2 and show clearly how the knurled nuts are prevented from vibrating loose.... thanks humps






THERE IS NOW A THREAD DEVOTED TO THE 'JONES DOLLY WHEEL' YOU CAN SEE IF YOU CLICK HERE

Cobber.

[seeshell]

Hi All

I was very interested by the pictures of the Jones coupling posted by Humpty2, with the figured edges of the fixing nuts held in place with a spring loaded arm which stops them from rotating loose while towing (below). Ingenious! How I would love something like that on ours.

Humpty2’s Jones Wheel Coupling:



I know my van was built in 1950-1951, as I’ve spoken to the wife and daughter of the original builder. It left me wondering about my own Blue Flyer, and if perhaps our Jones Wheel was fitted later (or was younger than Humpty2’s).

There are pictures of it on the van dated 1956, but I didn’t know if it was added at that time, or we just hadn’t been able to see it clearly in earlier pictures. I hoped that their recollections would help put some light on the subject. I got in contact, and Noelene (the wife of the original builder, Arthur) told me it was put on during the build, and the only modifications to it were the gas rings, and a stand to hold the gas regulator.

Earlier in this thread, there is a picture of my working Jones Wheel.



Here are some up close pictures of the fittings:

The tag on the side:



The tag on top of the coupling (specifying the use of split pins):



The plate, similar to Humpty2’s van, but without the nifty knurled captured nuts, or the places for the bolts to swing through the top plate:



So I can only guess that at some point Jones Springs devised a simpler and equally effective way of capturing the towball as seen in Humptys’s picture. Alternatively, it could have been an option from another company that was offered as an option?

Ours is original and unchanged – as I have said before, it’s not super user friendly. I wouldn’t like to be undoing those split pins and bolts every time (we free the towball from the tongue on the car). Clearly there were improvements over the years at Jones Spring Pty. Ltd.

Hope that helps with some “carbon dating”, Ol’ Cobber.

Cheers,
Seeshell

[humpty2]

Seeshell,
Another forum member has a Jones wheel on his Millard 17 or 18 footer and it has the same serrated knobs and spring loaded keeper as mine.
My Millard is estimated to be late 50's and his is 59 or 60.

Did you replace the bolts holding the trailing arms to the chassis?

[cobber]

G'day seeshell.....'n humpty, (ignoring kaybee )

The fact seeshell that your dolly wheel has the patent number 31801/57 indicates that the patent was applied for in 1957 and if the blue flyer was for certain sure built in 1950 does seem to indicate that the Jones Dolly Wheel was fitted to the van later..... now all we need to know is ...... how much latter, much later I suspect.

If you look at the patent application HERE it doesn't actually show us what sort of coupling was on the original application........... bugger !

I tend to think humptys coupling looks as though it could have been improved upon.... hence they came up with yours which would have been less likely to rattle undone.... just a guess

There is another aplication applied for in 1949 by a couple of yanks who apparently wanted to have it registered in OZ...... looks like Jones improved on it with their application, see it here

Cobber.

[seeshell]

Hi All

Nope I've done nothing at all to it - it's as it was when it came to us. It even has the original towball in it - they have much shorter bolt lengths than modern towballs (must replace it at some point...bit hard to do up).

Cobber - it's why I sent the email to the family. For certain there are pictures of it on the van about the time they had the Chrysler which was 1956/1957 which I have already posted. I can say I did not see it in any of the earlier pictures, and I only have what they say to go on that it was on there since the build.

SO either the build date is wrong, or the recollection of it being on there since day dot is wrong. Either way it certainly doesn't appear to have been changed post facto, I think it's original. The tag suggests at least at one point they didn't have the nifty retaining nuts, just split pins. You're probably right about the date of 1957.

I thought it might have been the other way around, since I saw a picture of a much later van with the retainer on it...was on Google Images, but not on the VV site.

Cheers
Seeshell

[seeshell]

Hi All

Further to a few conversations now about Jones Wheels (Jennison, Surf Tragic, Cobber, Seeshell) have had, I did a bit of searching at IP Australia in the AusPat files.

I managed to find the original patent submission for the Jones Wheel lodged on 2 October 1957, and confirmed on 1 October 1958 in the archives. The complete specification was published on 9 April 1959, and the complete specification accepted on 14 October 1959. It is attached for your enjoyment!

Further details about repairing a Jones wheel (bearings, tyre size, rims, etc):

Tyre size: 8" 4.5 tyre
Bearings: Chev from 1933 to 1936

Part numbers:

• Cone (x2): 909522
  
• Cup (x2): 909622
  
• Balls and Cage (x2): 909722
  
• Seals (x2): Either 25016826 (with a reference to Western?) or 250122N8
  

Hope you find it useful,
Seeshell

[cobber]

G'day seeshell,

That info from IP is not bad ...not bad at all really ... good actually .. very good actually ;D ....... now, can you find the same detail on the Hendy and Hutchinson dolly wheels ? and we'll give you the "Dolly Wheel Diploma"

Cobber

[simtech]

Just like to say thanks for the info and pics on the "Jones dolly wheels" - Herb Jones was my grandfather.

[boblor]

Hi All
I spent several hours yesterday with the manufacturer of the Jones Dolly Wheel, conducted an interview and will publish complete history in due course. I will have in my possession literature hopefully, but I can tell you that they were made up to 1980 and about 1000 units produced. So give me a little time and all will be revealed.
Cheers boblor

[cobber]

Good on ya Bob,

That will be interesting, over the course of this thread there have been a few guesses/assumptions made that may, or may not, be correct, hopefully you got the answers

In the mean time I'll post this link again which was mentioned above by seeshell and is the patent application for the Jones Dolly wheel in 1957/8/9..... there is another application HERE which is a coupling, not a dolly wheel, and is again later than we thought the dolly wheel was first available...... did you get the answer to that one ?

Cobber.

[viscount60]

I have a Jones Dolly Wheel that I plan to cut off my 1962 Viscount. Its in good nic apart from missing the lower part of the coupling, but its heavy.

Anyone like it, or can see a use for it? A part of caravan history.

[seeshell]

May 27, 2012 20:20:39 GMT 10 cobber said:

G'day seeshell.....'n humpty, (ignoring kaybee )

There is another application applied for in 1959 by a couple of yanks who apparently wanted to have it registered in OZ...... looks like Jones improved on it with their application, see it here

Cobber.

Hi Cobber

Just a slight edit to this history - the patent sought in Australia by the two Yanks was in 1949. Yes clearly improved on by Jones Dolly patent applied for in 1957. I'm going to look into the earlier patent - I wonder if it didn't "get up" here, otherwise I'm not sure how one is substantially different than the other in function, and how the Jones patent was granted. Unless they just didn't like Yanks, post war...

BOBLOR - you mentioned you had some history on the Jones Wheel - any more you can share with us?

As my Pop used to mumble, "Over Fed, Over Sexed, and Over Here" -
Seeshell

[cobber]

G'day seeshell,

thanks for pointing out my error in claiming the yanks application was 1959 when in fact it was 1949.. I've altered the date in my post   

The American one looks as though it could be retrofitted to a standard 'A' frame, that would have been handy.

Cobber.

[firefighter]

Hi All

Photo's of forum member Brentens Hutchinson dolly wheel set up that he tows Robyns Pilgrim caravan behind his F X Holden sedan

cheers

f/f

[brenten]

Thanks geoff for posting the photos of robyns dolly ( not that there is any thing wrong with a man owning a dolly)I towed it from melb to broken hill and back the biggest problem was the tyres I thought using aircraft tyres that had a 210 mph speed rating they would be better than the wheel barrow type that had a 80 kph rating but because they are 12 ply and there's only 50kg on them they are like a rock and transmitted every bump into the car im going change the tyres and try it again ....brenten

[justezenu]

<sup>I am the Granddaughter of Thomas Hutchinson the inventor of the Hutchinson Dolly Wheel.  Pa invented it and his brother Paul manufactured it in Greensborough, Victoria.  My mother talks about how inventive my pa was.  He made his own caravans and even created his own cars.  I have a very old engine trolley on my front veranda that pa also built.  It moves so easily, I wonder if this was part of his idea for the Dolly Wheel.

Jacqui</sup>

Aug 22, 2008 11:03:00 GMT 10 cobber said:

Dolly Wheels.

From the 1962 “Caravan and Touring Manual” an advertisement for both the “Jones Dolly Wheel” and the “Hutchinson Caravan Dolly”.
I think both were around long before 1962.... maybe somebody has knowledge of when each of them hit the market ?




The Hutchinson add. also appeared in 1961 and showed the "new Level -Ride Dolly" at that time, note it only has one ball socket which fits on the car ball... the 'van "A" frame is bolted under the "U" channel on the Dolly as shown in the next add. from 1961 that also asks "Is a Dolly Wheel necessary ?"



This photo of the real thing is fitted between an FJ Holden and a “Roadhaven” caravan that was on display at the “Cora Lynn” show 5th Oct 2008..... notice how the photos below show this model Hutchinson Dolly Wheel has provision for using "Load Levelers".



And the photos below are of a Hutchinson Dolly Wheel on ebay June 2012.






Cobber.

[justezenu]

My grandfather Thomas Hutchinson invented the Hutchinson Dolly Wheel. His brother Paul manufactured it in Greensborough.

[cobber]

G'day Jacqui,

Thanks for getting in touch, and thanks for the photo of your Pa    Thomas Hutchinson.

I have a bit more info on the Hutchinson Dolly Wheel sitting in my computer, I'll post it here in a couple of days.

In the mean time, if you have any more information about Pa and his other inventions you would like to share with us we'd love to see it.

Cobber.

[boblor]

Hi All
I have interviewed Ray Bartlett who manufactured the Jones Dolly Wheel and written down the history as he told it to me.I am awaiting further info from Ray such as brochures and photographs etc.
I will keep the forum informed as I gain the info.
Cheers boblor

[humpyboy]

Just scored myself a Hutchinson Dolly

[brenten]

Welcome humpboy to the hutchinson dolly club .brenten

[cobber]

Good on ya Derk, they're a part of caravanning history worth preserving too 

Which model did you get, the first one with two balls or the second 'Level ride' model, and if the second one .... does it have a different patent number on it ?

Cobber.

[humpyboy]

May 30, 2014 10:01:51 GMT 10 cobber said:

Good on ya Derk, they're a part of caravanning history worth preserving too 

Which model did you get, the first one with two balls or the second 'Level ride' model, and if the second one .... does it have a different patent number on it ?

Cobber.

G'day Cobber buddy mate, I got what Brenten's got, looks to be pretty much the same what I can see in the pics, hope to pick it up Sunday, will try and get a pic up for you chief.