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Post by hilldweller on Feb 18, 2014 13:20:47 GMT 10
Wow that roof canvas is in unbelievable condition  Interesting about the colours. It's going to look awesome, whether cream and beige or a single 'cream beige'. I would have thought (and I have no basis for this whatsoever) that with the roof being a different material it might also have been a different colour. Though having said that if you painted the same colour on canvas and bondwood I'd expect them to look a bit different because of the different textures. Looking forward to the next instalment. |
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 18, 2014 22:35:00 GMT 10
Giday Hildweller thanks for your comments! It has never lived outside hence the condition of the roof ! I am defiantly going with a cream roof and beige on the sides ,front and rear as that's its original colours.
More pics to come soon
Cheers
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Post by griffin on Feb 19, 2014 14:28:05 GMT 10
I've been in the same place recently trying to match paint to my original cream on the body of the van. I eventually settled on one that looked good on the colour card and had 4l made up. When I applied some it seemed a lot lighter, but I thought it might deepen with a second coat. I've not got there yet as I eventually managed to get back to the original colour on the door of the storage compartment so I took it to Bunnings to see how the computer match compared to the paint I had, and it contained a bit of black which wasn't in my paint's formula so they said they could adjust it if I wanted. I had it altered as years ago when I did some work for an old painter he always insisted in putting a few drops of black tint in the ceiling white to make it whiter, so he reckoned anyway. Well the black in the cream didn't make it creamier as I hoped, just greyer cream which I'm not too fussed about and on the face of it doesn't look anything like the original. As yet I haven't tried it but when this bit of welcome rain has passed I'll give it a go and see how it comes up. It can always be the undercoat  I think I'll be sticking to judging the colour by eye in future.
A friend has since matched the colours using her 'Pantone' colour chips and if all else fails it seems I can get this made up at a 'proper' paint shop.
George
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Post by griffin on Feb 19, 2014 20:58:39 GMT 10
Hi Don R
I'll bet Robin Boyd didn't like red tile roofs either, and look where that has got us now, acres of grey/black in all the new areas around here, apart from someone who slipped in Lilac! Who makes Lilac roof tiles!
A 1940 article I found recently about building your own van offered advice when it came to painting, white for the roof and cream for the upper portion, the reasoning given was to make it more visible at night. It wasn't explained if that was while towing or trying to find it on a dark pitch after you had ducked out to the loo. Brown for the lower part to hide the dirt.
George
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 19, 2014 21:04:19 GMT 10
Hi Griffin and thanks again for the heads up  . Believe it or not I have just come inside and read your post after grabbing some paint chips and trying to match paint !!  Cream is a pain to match I agree ! I think the beige will be fairly straight forward I can't take any beige bits as there isn't enough original colour I will try a colour match with the cream and see how it goes  Stay tuned on that one ! BTW I have made some progress on roof / canvas prep. Like you roof mine isn't stuck to the roof but rather stretched and held with a moulding on the roof and timber under the hatch. It makes me wonder if this was the normal method of attaching canvas and adhering with paint came later ? I have seem old adds from the 60s for a product called celastic which when an activator is applied sticks to the surface . Would be interested to know others thoughts on this ?? It may just be a period thing or a commercial practice vs home made technique ( cobber maybe a new thread called " what's on top" ) Here's the add...  Back to the paint ! Had a mate ( who is a tradie painter) round last night to look at options re paint and have decided to go enamel To all you veteran vv restorers am I doing the right thing. ?? Bondwood is very sound with no rot, de laminating ,etc Happy for feedback . Wisdom is found in many councillors so fire away! |
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Post by seeshell on Feb 20, 2014 9:33:39 GMT 10
Hi Akeepsake Celastic doesn't really adhere to the surface. Celastic is plastic impregnated fabric which becomes moldable when activated by immersion in solvents such as Acetone and MEK (methyl ethyl ketone). When it is soft, it can be manipulated into nearly any shape. It can be cut it into strips or small pieces, and adheres to itself. When it dries, it becomes hard again, thus retaining whatever shape it was manipulated into. If necessary, it can be resoftened and further manipulated. It can also be sanded. Celastic was first trademarked in 1926. It was being used by the theatrical industry as early as the 1930s, and saw its most widespread use in theatres of all sizes by the 1950s to make complex props – replacing paper mache as the primary technique.  So, the home builder would have wet the material with Acetone or MEK, and laid it over the roof of the van. When it dried it would be a hard weatherproof plasticised coating that sat like a shell over top - probably made a great roof. Very different to canvas though, either painted on or stretched. Here is an example of what passed for safety knowledge back when the use of Celastic was prevalent: “Rubber gloves should be used to keep the Softener off the hands. The liquid is not injurious under normal working conditions. Common-sense precautions will make the medium acceptable for any school use.” (Here’s How by Herbert V. Hake, 1958) Of course, “not injurious” is not the same as “harmless”! Acetone and MEK are known to have neurotoxic effects when absorbed through the skin or breathed in as fumes. While you can still get Celastic, its use has dropped off because thermoplastics and other materials don’t require use of gloves and heavy duty respirators for everyone who might be in the work area. Cheers Seeshell |
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 20, 2014 11:43:52 GMT 10
There you go! Thanks for that Seeshell ! Ironically my father ran a screenprinting business and I worked for him in the late 80s The solvent we used for cleaning the ink out of the screens was a mix of MEK and xylene!! Nasty stuff we used masks and gloves but if you got it on your hands and picked up a pen it would melt and stick to your finger! Maybe the neurotoxicity of it explains a lot  Cheers and thanks for the info! |
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Post by hilldweller on Feb 20, 2014 13:10:20 GMT 10
Like you roof mine isn't stuck to the roof but rather stretched and held with a moulding on the roof and timber under the hatch. It makes me wonder if this was the normal method of attaching canvas and adhering with paint came later ? I have seem old adds from the 60s for a product called celastic which when an activator is applied sticks to the surface . Would be interested to know others thoughts on this ?? It may just be a period thing or a commercial practice vs home made technique ( cobber maybe a new thread called " what's on top" ) That's interesting about the roof. Mabel's roof is canvas and held as you describe, not painted or glued. The painted-on coverings I can recall on here are calico, not canvas, and I had wondered whether canvas is too thick for the 'paint as glue' technique. Just a theory - I'll be interested to see what replies you get. I like the idea of a "what's on top" thread |
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Post by King Fisher on Feb 20, 2014 16:08:31 GMT 10
Thanks Seeshell that was very interesting. Wonder where you could get hold of it today?? Might have to ask Mr.Google when I get a moment.
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Post by seeshell on Feb 20, 2014 16:47:56 GMT 10
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 22, 2014 22:33:39 GMT 10
Well have had quite a productive week on the Jennison as the back is mended and I have a spring in my step again Where to start........mmmm As we have been talking about canvas stretched roofs as opposed to painted down calico let's go there first! I pulled off the hatch the other day  As you can see the canvas is in good nick apart from some spots of cracking ( which I suspect is possum pee that has done weird and funky things to the paint!)  I gave it a good sand being careful not to rub through the canvas but brisk enough to get most of the (silver frost) alum coating roughed up .  As you can see after there was a fair bit of open canvas where the cracks were... then came an idea  recently I did a Reno on our bathroom and I had this leftover? ?  It's waterproofing ( and is used around showers, under tiles etc) and forms a membrane which is flexible ( will stretch up to 3mm) it's can be painted and is rated for exterior use! Perfect!! I rolled it on x 3 coats with a nook and cranny foam roller ( in hindsight I should have brushed it as the roller gave it a slight stipples finish and I wanted smooth) had to do some sanding to sort it ! It filled in all the cracks and where the canvas was a bit worse for wear around the side edges it stuck in the gaps and fortified it to the timber!!! Very happy with the results   Under coated and sanded again !!! Ready for top coat ( as soon as I get that paint matched!!!!)  Heaps more to come,,,,  |
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Post by hilldweller on Feb 23, 2014 9:35:49 GMT 10
It certainly looks waterproof now! Can you tell if the Hydroban has worked through the canvas and stuck it down, or is it working as a surface coating?
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Post by Franklin1 on Feb 23, 2014 9:48:16 GMT 10
By gees that HAS come up a treat, Andrew.  You'd have to wonder whether coating a whole bondwood van in that stuff would waterproof it for a "lifetime", ay? Great quality work, there! cheers, Al. |
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Post by Geoff & Jude on Feb 23, 2014 10:19:33 GMT 10
hi andrew
i painted the roof of our roadmaster with a similar bathroom sealant a few years ago and unfortunately the summer heat has caused it to bubble in many places.
before you think about doing the whole roof, i suggest you give the hatch a good trial period to make sure the sealer is going to last outside.
geoff 'n jude
ps - i haven't got round to removing the coating yet but i'm going to have to do it before too long.
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 23, 2014 19:24:23 GMT 10
hi andrew i painted the roof of our roadmaster with a similar bathroom sealant a few years ago and unfortunately the summer heat has caused it to bubble in many places. before you think about doing the whole roof, i suggest you give the hatch a good trial period to make sure the sealer is going to last outside. geoff 'n jude ps - i haven't got round to removing the coating yet but i'm going to have to do it before too long. Hi Geoff n Jude a couple of questions re bubbling roof! What did you paint it on canvas , timber , aluminium ,water based , oil based existing paint?? Did you prime before painting? Did you paint over it with undercoat ? If so oil or water based ? What was your topcoat? Was the waterproofing exterior rated? Was it water based or oil based? Bubbling normally happens when moisture is drawn out under the paint so I'd love to know all the details as I thought I was on a winner ! Have you checked the bubbles to see which layer has lifted ( on top or underneath the waterproofing ? Lots of questions !! Cheers Andrew |
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 23, 2014 20:29:55 GMT 10
It certainly looks waterproof now! Can you tell if the Hydroban has worked through the canvas and stuck it down, or is it working as a surface coating? Giday Hildweller my canvas is still sealed off and even if it was raw the hydra ban wouldn't soak through as it's too thick in consistency . Cheers |
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Post by Geoff & Jude on Feb 24, 2014 9:36:22 GMT 10
Hi andrew To answer your questions: What did you paint it on canvas , timber , aluminium ,water based , oil based existing paint?? Over oil based enamel.
Did you prime before painting? No.
Did you paint over it with undercoat ? If so oil or water based ? Covered it with ormonoid bituminous silver oil based.
What was your topcoat? As above.
Was the waterproofing exterior rated? It was given by a neighbour who said it was exterior rated.
Was it water based or oil based? Water based.
Bubbling normally happens when moisture is drawn out under the paint so I'd love to know all the details as I thought I was on a winner ! There was no moisture on the roof when applied.
Have you checked the bubbles to see which layer has lifted ( on top or underneath the waterproofing ? Not at this point.
 Don't be too disheartened, i just thought i'd mention it so you knew. Geoff |
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 24, 2014 21:33:24 GMT 10
All good Geoff I'm not concerned . If you are painting water based over enamel it won't stick and usually bubbles over time By moisture I mean even dry looking timber once painted when heat is applied will draw moisture to the surface and eventually bubble It's hard really to say what the cause was with your bubbling not knowing what type of membrane you used Time will tell for me but reckon it will be ok besides I'm in Tassie ..... How hot does it get??? And the part about only the hatch .....too late I'm committed !   Painted the hatch in original matched cream tonight ! Love the colour It's a bit dirtier than modern creams but very happy with the way it turned out!  |
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Post by hilldweller on Feb 25, 2014 11:35:56 GMT 10
Great colour! Now do you think you could persuade your paint supplier to rename it 'vintage caravan cream', to make life easier for the rest of us |
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Post by griffin on Feb 25, 2014 19:25:04 GMT 10
Hi akeepsake
Dirty cream seems to be an apt description, this photo is of the colour card against some of the original paint, with the colour match from Bunnings, that I made disparaging remarks about, on the right, the original colour from the card on the left.
Colour comparison. by viva gt, on Flickr
You can probably tell why I felt hard done by, but today I got to put a coat on the front and it really looks great, so I guess I have to eat my words about the colour matching computer. It may not look like the goods on the card, but is much nicer than the colour I put on from the card match. They stuck the formula to the bottom of the tin so I will need to look after that. I wonder if it mellows after some UV absorption too?
And, the hole is for a push catch identical to the one you are looking for, I have them on every door, but no spares unfortunately.
George
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Post by akeepsake on Feb 25, 2014 21:26:13 GMT 10
Hildweller I asked the guy at the paint shop if it had a name as a joke and he said " it's cream with ochre and blue" and looked at me funny  Happy to give codes to anyone if they want an old style cream Using dulux weathershield gloss acrylic only on the canvas roof only cause it's stretched and not glued down and enamel would crack with movement I reckon. Used Berger triple prep under coat ( bites like a bull terreir! ) and holds on! George , cream defiantly fades even inside ! I think if your a purest it's hard to get it 101% right but once it's painted if your happy that's all that matters! Are you sure you need that knob ? A nice plastic one from bunnings would look great!  Here's some more pics ! No more silver!!!!   |
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Post by penguin on Feb 26, 2014 9:57:14 GMT 10
Roof looks good painted cream Andrew. Jennison pathfinders really were the "cream" of the crop back in the day weren't they.
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Post by penguin on Feb 26, 2014 9:58:06 GMT 10
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Post by penguin on Feb 26, 2014 10:09:38 GMT 10
Hi Geoff n Jude a couple of questions re bubbling roof! What did you paint it on canvas , timber , aluminium ,water based , oil based existing paint?? Did you prime before painting? Did you paint over it with undercoat ? If so oil or water based ? What was your topcoat? Was the waterproofing exterior rated? Was it water based or oil based? Bubbling normally happens when moisture is drawn out under the paint so I'd love to know all the details as I thought I was on a winner ! Have you checked the bubbles to see which layer has lifted ( on top or underneath the waterproofing ? Lots of questions !! Cheers Andrew I've just got off the phone to NASA - I think you might be onto something Geoff n Jude. Apparently nasa also used a waterproof membrane under the tiles of one of their space shuttles. I mentioned that you had trouble with the membrane bubbling in the heat and they confirmed that it can get quite hot re entering earths atmosphere which could have caused problems with tiles coming loose. They will be in touch with you soon. I suggested they browse the forum for some more tech hints as much r&d has Been carried out by vintage vanners. I also suggested that maybe they switch to a good quality oil based primer and old asbestos containing Lino tiles for the shuttle as I believe this will handle the heat better. |
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Post by Geoff & Jude on Feb 26, 2014 12:49:59 GMT 10
hi penguin i don't want to hijack andrew's thread but interestingly enough, i worked for corning during the 70's and they were the ones who made the tiles for the space programme. we were always very proud of our connection and always believed it wasn't a tile problem but a glue problem. i suspect the original glues made from flour and water broke down under the heat but improvements followed that kept the tiles on. geoff 'n jude |
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I think I'll be sticking to judging the colour by eye in future. 
. Believe it or not I have just come inside and read your post after grabbing some paint chips and trying to match paint !! 
Stay tuned on that one !
recently I did a Reno on our bathroom and I had this leftover?
