Asbestos in vintage caravans

[pjdonnchadha]

Hello,

I am considering purchasing an old on-site Millard Florida caravan (I assume of 1960s vintage?) that has been modified and attached to a small cabin at a caravan park. The door has been removed and wooden frames are exposed on the inside of the door frame (leading on to built-on cabin), as has a window.

I am concerned about the possibility of the presence of asbestos in this old Millard Florida and the health ramifications of both the modifications already done and some I am considering doing if I buy the caravan. Would anyone be able to tell me whether there would potentially be asbestos in the caravan, and if so where (for example, would the removal of the door and/or windows possibly expose some?)?

I would appreciate any information you might be able to share.

Thank you.

[Franklin1]

G'day pj---, and welcome to the forum! ;D

It is good that you are savvy enough about the dangers of asbestos to ask questions.

The disappointment on my side of the fence is that we probably don't have enough knowledge to answer your questions accurately.

My general knowledge tells me that there are possibly a number of places in old vans where asbestos was used:

1. "Vinyl" flooring, particularly if it is of the tiles variety

2. Linoleum had an asbestos content

3. The heat shield behind the stove compartment will most likely contain a sheet of asbestos material

4. Any insulation in the wall cavity may contain asbestos

Other people on the forum may be able to add to that list.

The Millard Florida model started around the mid-1960s and finished about 1970, so I'm inclined to think you'll only be exposed to Nos.1 and 3 above. When caravan manufacturers introduced insulation into vans in the latter 1960s, it seems to have been a polystyrene-type foam that was bonded to the aluminium cladding. I have no idea whether that foam contained any asbestos content.

It's not for me to tell other people how to spend their money, however I would recommend that you don't buy this van if the possibility of exposure to asbestos is a concern to you (and it is a justifiable concern you have ). Your description of the van makes me think there is quite a bit of work to be done on it. There are hundreds of old vans out there, so I'm sure there would be something else of interest to you that doesn't require anywhere near the level of repair-work that this one seems to need.

cheers,
Al.

[webrake4bricabrac]

Some of the 9” linoleum floor tiles in my 1959 Coronet are lifting at the edges and I need to do something about it...



Asbestos
The first thing to consider is that the existing floor tiles could contain asbestos. I understand the cost to test would be at least $100 (for a home test kit) and professional removal could cost thousands. I have decided to avoid this expense by:
• taking care not to break any tiles
• gently heating tiles with a hair dryer to improve flexibility
• wearing an appropriate respirator

Option 1 - Reinstate Existing Tiles
• Carefully lift edge of tile with a paint scraper
• Prop edge of tile with a matchstick
• Apply pressure sensitive “contact” adhesive under tile
• Replace tile when adhesive is tacky
• Clean up any mess with an appropriate solvent
Advantages: preserve the originality of the caravan, relatively quick fix
Disadvantages: tiles that currently seem secure may lift in the future, new adhesive beneath a tile might mean it does not sit flush with its neighbour, there may not be sufficient access to apply adhesive under some of the tiles

Option 2 – Remove and Replace
• Fully remove tiles with a paint scraper
• Prepare subfloor and install new sheet according to manufacturer’s instructions
• I currently like and have requested samples from www.forbo-flooring.com.au/Residential-flooring/Products/Marmoleum-Global-3/Artoleum-Piano/
Advantages: make a fresh start to ensure a well laid floor that will last for many years to come
Disadvantages: more labour intensive, period style flooring products are difficult to obtain and may not look as good as the original

I would appreciate comments from anyone who has been through a similar process. I want to do a good job, but have young children and very little spare time!

[greedy53]

well if the tiles are ok try to keep them as for asbestos i have never heard anything about them having it,not sure if this will help my wife uses eculiptus oil in a small spray bottle it makes it go soft i have watched her use it seems ok ihave found that old tiles are very brittle so heat may help,for me if there plane replace
good luck

[takeiteasy]

Don't worry about a test kit - most of the old tiles have asbestos fibre in them. Having said that, you have to be extreme to release the asbestos, which is locked into the product. Breaking a few tiles is not going to release the fibres. You have to do something silly like take a floor sander to them (as I did many many years ago.).

[webrake4bricabrac]

Thanks guys, I'm going to try Option 1. Hopefully the contact adhesive will be strong enough to hold the curled edges down. Perhaps I'll do a few at a time and weigh them down with bricks for a few minutes. And I'll attempt to fully remove each tile, rather than just poke a bit of glue under the raised edge.

[Roehm3108]

Not wanting to put you off the job, but I reckon that Option 1 will be quite a task, unless you can remove and clean all the tiles without damaging them.

If you only do some of them, they will stand "proud" of the rest because you are adding the thickness of the glue to the underside. You would also need to make sure that you have every little bit of old glue and dust out of the area, or else the above may end up even higher.

If you can't find such tiles any more, why not consider getting some vinyl and getting it cut into tile squares and recreate the same effect. Will probably be an easier alternative and less frustrating.

[seeshell]

Hi Guys

You can find tiles exactly like that in 2mm or 3mm thicknesses (even the same streaky patterns) that are actual lino at McMats - the address and details are in the Suppliers List maintained by Cobber.

They're in Melbourne, and they're cheap - about $16 sq/m versus buying from a flooring store at about $90 sq/m. They have left overs from commercial jobs so stock tends to change a bit.

It would be simpler, cleaner, and cause you less risk of asbestosis while remaining authentic.

Have a visit there -
Cheers
Seeshell

[takeiteasy]

I tend to agree with the others. Resticking old tiles is difficult. Try a few and see how it turns out.

[webrake4bricabrac]

Thanks for your input everyone.

I must admit, I don't have high hopes for saving the old tiles. I spoke to McMats, but their range is pretty limited at the moment. Received some lino sheet samples from Forbo (Marmoleum) and they look pretty good. Could be the way to go, as I'm not really into the checkerboard look.

[takeiteasy]

If your not into checkerboard rip it all up, smooth off the floor, and lay some commercial grade lino of your choice. Just make sure there are no bits of tile left behind before you sand the glue off the floor.

[tcowdroy]

Whatever you do, don't use modern contact adhesive! - it destroys old (real as opposed to vinyl) lino. Linoleum is a completely natural product, bound together with resins and oils that happily disintegrate in the presence of whatever solvents are in contact adhesive. I discovered this when I tried to make a drinks tray using a fantastic piece of atomic design lino. It fell apart in front of my eyes.
Contact forbo and find out what they use on Marmoleum.

Cheers,
Tony

[webrake4bricabrac]

Thanks Tony. If I go down that route, I shall investigate further.

[Franklin1]

G'day All,

As many of you know, I'm a Moderator on our sister forum for Classic Caravans built in the 1970s. I was recently contacted by a forum member to discuss all the possible places in old caravans where asbestos might be found.

During his restoration, he had submitted a sample of the old sealant (used around his mid-70s aluminium-clad van) to a laboratory for testing. The test results confirmed the presence of asbestos in the sealant, and the lab man made the comment that "the asbestos was bonded into the mastic and furthermore this was very common practice for all sealants and putties of this era."

I was quite surprised to learn of this, as I'd never considered these sealants might contain asbestos.

I presume the sealants used before 1970 would have also had asbestos added to the mix during manufacture, but I don't have any confirmation of that.

If you have to remove any old sealant during your restoration, please be mindful of the possible presence of asbestos in the sealant, and take the necessary precautions.

thanks,
Al.

[willmars]

if the tiles are in good condition, then first option is really a best one for you.

[surfingyogini]

Hi, we went thought a similar decision with our van and ended up removing all the old tiles (heat gun a scraper did the job but it took many nights with a 2 and 5 year old!). The lovely seeshell got some tiles from McMatts for us and they look so much better than before! We loved the marmoleum by forbo but at $120 per sqm, it was out of our price range. You can try and ask your local stickiest for off cuts from their next job though - ends up cheaper by far or even free!

[dusty]

Thanks for the warning...

I've read that houses of the same era often have it in flooring (in glues and the linoleum itself), around plumbing, and in insulation.

I wonder if there are any other areas we should be mindful of? Should we just be suspicious of anything that isn't wood, glass, or metal?

Now I'm wondering about lead-based paints as well...

Dusty

[swampdonkey]

I have just been given a Viscount Ambassador Chassis number D574, which from the posts i have found makes it probably a 64/65 model. It needs a lot of work but can't wait to get started. One thought was apart from lino did they insulate the roof and did they use asbestos material, and was it used anywhere else.
Hope someone can help me.

[Roehm3108]

Go to the Technical Section of this forum and follow this hint from Franklin1 back in February

"There's some useful info on the forum about asbestos in these old vans. If you click on the word "search" on the bar at the top of the page, a new window will open up. Type the word asbestos in the search field at the top, and then scroll right down to the bottom of that search page and change the Days field to 3500 and the Results field to 100. Then click on the [Search] button.

cheers,
Al. "

[swampdonkey]

Thanks roheim3108,
I've done the search as suggested by franklin1 and got 25 hits. The reference to 3500 days escapes me as that option does not come up in the search box. However the results i did get referred to vans other than the Viscount Ambassador, and that's why i made the post. To find out if anyone out there had specifically found anything in a Viscount Ambassador of that era , given its serial number. I guess i will just have to be careful as i remove the ceiling panels and take the appropriate protection measures in case i find something. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Cheers

[humpyboy]

Swampdonkey (love that handle) the reference to 3500 days is the text box 3 lines above the search button (posted within the last) change the 7 to 3500 then hit the search button and see how you go, it one of those things,once you get your head around it, it becomes easy.

[Franklin1]

Yes, I was about to say the same thing, humpyboy, so thanks for that. I just did a search and there were 78 references to asbestos found, but I can't guarantee any of them specifically relate to Ambassador vans.

I doubt whether there would have been anything unique about Ambassador vans anyway. They came off a production line like other vans did. Same sort of parts and equipment went into them that went into other vans.

cheers,
Al.