willow5075
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Willow & the MOTH
Posts: 355
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Post by willow5075 on Apr 27, 2021 16:55:06 GMT 10
the increasing number of vintage and classic vans that are coming up for sale, that have been completed gutted (ie all the history removed) and then they are being sold as "blank canvases" and "project" vans because the person who stripped it has decided not to proceed for whatever reason. I think a lot of van history is ending up at the tip and it makes me sad every time I see them. Also, please tell me people are not paying the crazy prices being asked for these same shadows of caravans past!
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Post by tooleyau on Apr 27, 2021 17:13:48 GMT 10
the increasing number of vintage and classic vans that are coming up for sale, that have been completed gutted (ie all the history removed) and then they are being sold as "blank canvases" and "project" vans because the person who stripped it has decided not to proceed for whatever reason. I think a lot of van history is ending up at the tip and it makes me sad every time I see them. Also, please tell me people are not paying the crazy prices being asked for these same shadows of caravans past! Fully agree, but the problem is that you (we) cannot make a law that says "you can't buy a vintage caravan until you prove you are capable of restoring it." |
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willow5075
Full Member
Willow & the MOTH
Posts: 355
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Post by willow5075 on Apr 27, 2021 20:33:14 GMT 10
Sad but true
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Post by Roehm3108 on Apr 28, 2021 7:30:06 GMT 10
Hi Willow. I know that this type of conversation was held years ago by the vintage car purists too, as they lamented the fact that cars were being chopped up and turned into hotrods etc to the point where a whole industry sprang up. The original members of this site in the past, have regularly lamented the sad loss of our caravanning history. In days of yore, if we didn't send old caravans to the tip, they would end up in caravan derbies.
The audience for vintage caravans changed a lot when this site opened itself up to social media which has seen a growth in seeing vans being gutted as well as huge price spikes. I regularly shake my head when a vintage caravan has been gutted and rebuilt by professionals, using the latest interiors and electronics, simply because the customer liked the shape of the old vans. Personally, I find it as saddening as seeing them being converted into coffee or food vans.
But that's the nature of any trends, be it clothing fashions, construction styles, decorating styles or caravan styles! The market prices are pushed up and have or will plateau. Thankfully there are still those who like to restore history beyond seeing it in museums and I laud them for it. Yes, I find it sad that some of these vans are being modified to an unrecognisable extent, but also recognise that such a change is inevitable. I especially find it sad that this current generation doesn't recognise that much of the early caravan industry was spawned out of poverty and housing need, rather than holiday satisfaction. Today's vintage caravanners would do well to emulate basic simplicities and get themselves away from the consumerism they have in their daily lives, at least for a little while.
As an aside, I stayed in a caravan park recently and already got a sense of site price gouging, now that the tourism industry realises it has a "captive" market due to Covid19, so as they say "watch this space"! Pretty soon, caravan parks will price themselves out of the range of the very people they should be serving. In some places they already have!
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Post by shesgotthelook on Apr 28, 2021 11:58:05 GMT 10
Yes, desperately sad, but there's not a thing you can do about it so it's best to just scroll past. The sheer number of people who think they are on an episode of The Block who either give the van a grey makeover or realise too late they don't have the required skills just breaks my heart. Best you can do is keep posting pics of of original caravans & hoping you encourage at least one person to stop & think 'hey, that actually looks really good'. In the end, it's their property & theirs to do with it what they want. And yes, people are paying big dollars for very stuffed caravans   |
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willow5075
Full Member
Willow & the MOTH
Posts: 355
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Post by willow5075 on Apr 28, 2021 18:12:45 GMT 10
Yes what you both say is absolutely true, I think it's just that there seem to be so many lately - and yes I do scroll on by (Actually its the MOTH who usually shows me another poor van stripped seemingly every single day).
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Post by shesgotthelook on Apr 29, 2021 16:05:39 GMT 10
Here is a prime example of a 'grey makeover & gut job' gone bad. I won't post links but they are asking $3,900. The most painful aspect of this is the painted over clock frame. Unmolested, these clocks go for upwards of $100   |
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Post by hughdeany on Apr 29, 2021 20:36:47 GMT 10
Whoever decided grey or any paint is good to paint over a beautiful retro laminate finish and everything else!
To me it means someone has covered up water stains or worse,there’s quite a few serial sellers doing this and causing a lot of people anguish,not to mention waste of money!
I really despair where this is all going to end.😥
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Post by grandad on May 1, 2021 10:45:53 GMT 10
Well now, as one of the many culprits who has ripped out or painted over original finishes in a vintage caravan maybe I should offer up the point of view from the dark side. There is something I believe we should all consider. Everything we now look at with fond affection and wish to find, restore, keep or safeguard went through a stage where they were considered completely worthless. At one point either we or our parents in some cases finally got rid of that crappy old pine kitchen table with all its scratches and dents and the 4" nails driven through the top into the legs to try to flatten the top out was relegated to the workshop and replaced with one of those bright shiny new chrome and laminate beauties. And wasn't that a wonderful day? Not one of us ever stopped to think that one day that bright new table would be considered ugly and follow its predecessor out to the workshop. And horror of horrors, to now see the next generation admire that old 1950's monstrosity and actually want it back in their kitchens. The process is a journey from new and desirable, to its cheap and secondhand and we can afford it, to its still serviceable and we can make it look a bit better with a coat of paint to for goodness sake get rid of it to gee, look at how much they're asking for that old table in the antique shop now. What we see here are people who are merely at different stages of that journey. Specifically, the ones who are at the "we can make it look a bit better with a coat of paint" stage. Grey paint by all appearances. In my case, I already owned a 10' 6" 1969 Franklin Mini. I'd owned it for about 10 to 15 years and had used it for extra accommodation in the back yard. It was nothing more than a secondhand caravan, worth probably less than zero but I could hopefully make it into something I could get some use out of. That was it. I didn't realise it squeaked into the "vintage" category until I came here. And even then, it only just squeaked in. It's not what I really looked upon as a true vintage van which I always considered to be a bondwood. And still do quite frankly. (Personal opinion only) As I learnt more from reading these pages I reconsidered my plan, but it was too late by the time that process of change was complete. In my defence, I ended my rebuild thread at what I considered a safe point as documenting what came next might encourage others to do the same as me. And I didn't want to see that happen. In hindsight, if I knew then what I know now, I would have sold 'The Pumpkin" (Link to life story below) and built a new retro-looking van from scratch. Probably a Bondwood with a pagoda, calico roof and timber windows. It would prove to be a lot easier than what I'm doing now I think. So, when you see people doing the "grey paint restoration" attempt to educate them. Nicely. If they don't wish to be educated then consider that these old vans become more desirable and more people wish to faithfully restore them only after their supply starts to dry up. That person is helping that process along. In years to come, as still more people want the unrestored old and original, those grey painted vans will still be here and if the future goes the same way as the past, the materials such as the panelling and tiles etc will suddenly be remade by manufacturers wanting to cash in on the new demand. We're all on the same journey. It's just that some are at different points in that journey. Cheers Jim vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/11758/life-times-1969-franklin-mini |
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willow5075
Full Member
Willow & the MOTH
Posts: 355
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Post by willow5075 on May 10, 2021 8:49:08 GMT 10
Interesting point of view Jim, thanks for sharing. I agree re the journey in many cases, but the volume of gutted vans seems particularly high at present and as vintage and classic vans are now a “thing” I’m sad that so much is being lost .
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Post by grandad on May 11, 2021 9:47:58 GMT 10
Oh, I don't disagree. There's a group on Facebook that constantly post about how they've "modernised" their caravans. Mostly 70s era.
I often wonder if any will be left so future generations can see what caravaning in the 70s was really like.
But, at the end of the day I try to tell myself that based on past experiences, there will always be enough left unmolested to fulfill that destiny.
The alternative outcome is too depressing so I choose this one.
Jim
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Post by Roehm3108 on May 13, 2021 19:56:30 GMT 10
Some good and valid comments you've posted there Grandad - thanks!
Apart from what I have already said in my previous post, another problem is also in the language we use in regard to these caravans. This site originally went to great pains to define what was meant by "vintage" caravans. Now, we also use terms such as "retro" and "classic" and use those terms interchangeably to mean the same thing, or, to lasso word searches. As a result, the three terms are seen by the consumer as meaning the same thing. When this site started joining with the social media sets, the criteria for the term "vintage" became very elastic. These days I see caravans from the late 80's being accepted on some Facebook vintage caravan site. And because they are accepted on one forum, the assumption is that they should/would be accepted on this site.
Grandad, I agree the people can do what they like with their caravans, be it "grey" paint to a total revamp. This site has only had one criteria in terms of what "vintage" means - 1970 and before. That should always remain our criteria! I believe it will make people appreciate their caravans that qualify, even more! Exclusive? YES! SNOBBISH? YEP to that one too! If any club has a set of criteria, and you don't qualify, you simply can't be a member! That's why it's a club. This site was formed by people who had a real interest and love of caravans of the specified vintage. It had been build up as an internationally recognised authority with the information on here- totally unlike the five minutes of fame people grab on the social media sites, only for it all to be lost when the next topic comes up.
Last week I was in Innamincka and was fortunate enough the see a half a dozen model T Fords there, as they were trekking their pristine vehicles via the Strezlecki Trek to Birdsville. Would I do that to my $70-100,000 antique? Definitely not, but they have that right to do what they're doing. In the same way, so do the "grey" spray painters. Lets simply keep them off this site if their caravan doesn't qualify within our definitions. And if their caravan does qualify, let's be nice and grin and bear it.
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