|
|
Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 21, 2008 16:31:27 GMT 10
Happened to be at a caravan parts/repair place in Caboolture today, and during the course of chatting with the bloke there, I happened to mention that I had changed my Propert axle and slung it under the springs, to get a couple of inches extra ground clearance and improve the level of the van when towing, as it was a bit high in the front.
From the look on his face, you would have thought I had raced off his wife!!
He reckoned that an axle cannot be underslung without it being engineer certified. If it isn't certified, then it's illegal! Reckoned that this had been the case since 1988. Apparently the key reason for this is that leaf springs are engineered to be pulled, and if you undersling the axle, then the spring is pushed and it involves a whole new and different set of dynamics that have to be overcome.
He reckoned he knows of a case where a van owner wanted his company to undersling the axle for him, but they refused. So the owner did the job himself, had an accident involving about $190,000 third party property damage, and his insurance company have wiped him.
Is there anybody out ther who can clarify this a bit more, cos there must be 1000's of vans out there with illegal underslung axles, if this is the case.
Ray
|
|
whippy
Full Member
"Twiggy" the Globetrotter
Posts: 462
|
Post by whippy on Jan 21, 2008 19:33:34 GMT 10
To get a bit of hieght, I was told to put the axle underneath on my Franklin by a reputable trailer manufacturer. I am no expert but if you look at it logically, the same load is bolted to the springs wether above or below.
It could be this person who pranged the van may not have done the job properly ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Franklin1 on Jan 21, 2008 22:18:28 GMT 10
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 13:08:39 GMT 10
Hi Guys
I done this with my first V Van Just Croozn so it would sit level behind a 1986 Landcruiser. I removed the dropped axle and fitted a straight trailer axle under the springs. End result was the van sat up about 4" and dead level with the 4X4 towball. It past rego and towed fine ( NSW inspection station Blue slip) .
I had pictures and info back in 2004 but the rolling 25 pages of general info have swallowed it up .
I think the main issue to address when relocating the axle under the springs is to ensure that the "locator countersunk hole" that is drilled in the bottom side of the axle to locate the axle properly on the leaf springs is copied to the top side of the axle at exactly centre of the 2 springs and the nut that holds all the leaves together on the bottom side of the spring stack fits neatly into that hole.
No big deal with axles that are straight and "Unbraked" like TD axles . bit more fiddly with dropped axles and brakes.
Reddo
|
|
|
|
Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 22, 2008 17:49:38 GMT 10
Franklin, I read that exploroz thread yesterday when I came home - not much help really except the last comment from Reiner somebody. I met him a few years ago on the road, he builds Teardrops up here - very good quality, and also imports the three-wheeler bikes and makes Teardrops for them too. He claims it's legal to have underslung axles, but I can't find any Govt reference at all, on the site he suggests. Have looked at various other govt sites too and can't find any joy.
Whippy, it's not just a matter of whether a person does the job properly, but if it's an expensive insurance claim, what the fellow was saying to me yesterday was that the insurance company will look for all sorts of loopholes (I did the same thing when I was working in insurance and they're tougher today, so I believe), and if this is one of them, then beware! This is why this caravan repairer won't do them, as any claim could rebound back to them if something goes wrong.
Where the blazes are you Jim in Melbourne - this sort of question is right up your alley!!!!! Have you heard from him at all, Col?
Reddo, I understand what you are talking about, and I did all those things you refer to, but to my understanding as it stands at the moment, the risk of having done this is mine (and anybody else's who's done the same thing)! To my mind, because it was the Propert, without brakes, and is a very lightweight van, I personally think it's safe, and will not reverse what I have done. WOuld probably not do it to a braked van, unless I found a place that would give me a certificate for the job done and they would then wear any liability.
Ray
|
|
whippy
Full Member
"Twiggy" the Globetrotter
Posts: 462
|
Post by whippy on Jan 22, 2008 19:05:52 GMT 10
Ray, I haven't liked how high the caravan is with the underslung axle. As I am concerned that I am "illegal", I think I will put the whole suspension back the way it was. Besides the van gets the wobbles when it's a bit gusty and it will ride a bit better lower.
Glynn
|
|
|
|
Post by earlee on Jan 22, 2008 19:15:29 GMT 10
geez ray - looks like rain coming - better not drive the car in case you have an accident on the slippery wet roads. insurance companies might getcha.  what happened to the spirit of experiment ?  we aren't living in the mighty USofA where liability is over the top are we? or are we?  keep safe and wear condoms. regards earlee. |
|
|
|
Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 22, 2008 19:58:42 GMT 10
More than you realise Earlee.
I am passing this information on to people in the forum to do with as they please. Some may wish to experiment, but towing caravans is serious business, and if something goes wrong, it's not just your own safety at risk, but a lot of other people as well, let alone the financial side of things if you are suddenly left high and dry by your insurer.
Ray
|
|
|
|
Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 22, 2008 22:11:28 GMT 10
JBJ - I have no problems with that, nor does it concern me what anybody else does with their vans. As I said in my thread, I'm also NOT reversing my underslung axle. I felt this information should be put out there for people to do with as the wished, like any other information that's shared on this site. That's the purpose of the site.
I DO get peed off when the odd person throws personal harpoons at what is meant as constructive input.
Ray
|
|
whippy
Full Member
"Twiggy" the Globetrotter
Posts: 462
|
Post by whippy on Jan 23, 2008 5:16:45 GMT 10
I have not liked the way my van sat ever since I reversed the axle, I liked it lower but changed it on the advice of some more experienced caravanners. So if it is "illegal" then it's a good excuse to put it back to the way I like it. In respect to the above comments, I do not like the thought that something I did has the potential of causing grief to a third party and also I do not intend to watch my hard earnt super go down the drain becauseof the "Spririt of Experimentation". I have seen first hand the attitude of "she'll be right mate" and in one case a family lost a child because of this attitude. No -one has a crystal ball and can see what is going to happen in the future. I have previously been employed as an insurance investigator and I know how much Insusrance companies try to get out of paying, so why push your luck? ? |
|
|
|
Post by minicamper on Jan 23, 2008 6:14:03 GMT 10
i think there are 2 things to remember.
One, in my experience, government offices, in particular road authorities are basically obstructive by nature and you'll get different answers from different ones and the people who work in them from day to day, particularly in you're doing something thats not viewed as the norm.
Second, as long as you get the change noted on the policy when you get it, they can't use it as an excuse to get out of paying.
(they'll probably just find another reason)
|
|
|
|
Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 23, 2008 15:11:35 GMT 10
Thanks for the info Col. The bloke I spoke to claimed those sort of qualifications, which is another reason I started this thread. I simply find it incredible that one can't find clarifications to this under some sort of government standard. Would make life a lot easier.
Ray
|
|
whippy
Full Member
"Twiggy" the Globetrotter
Posts: 462
|
Post by whippy on Jan 23, 2008 18:40:17 GMT 10
Thanks Col, I still may put the van back the way it was, it looks pox sitting so high.
Glynn
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2008 19:08:12 GMT 10
Hi Guys
Just like any modification to cars. It is wise to get an engineers report or better still get an engineer to look at your proposal and pass his / her thoughts on your proposed mods and then implement any suggested changes/ strengthening etc.
Get a commitment from them that they will put thier signature to your handiwork when you are finished.
Once you have that magic piece of paper in your pocket you can be 99% certain that all will be cool with the Authorities.
On another tangeint. I borrow a double axle trailer which has the axles welded to the chassis. ( No springs ) it is the best trailer i have ever towed when carrying sprung vehicles like cars and caravans.
It is now illegal to build car trailers or any other trailer without spring suspension in NSW.
I need to rest now .. my 'ead is startin' ta hurt again.
Reddo
|
|
pkp
New Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by pkp on Jan 23, 2008 20:24:46 GMT 10
I agree with you Glynn,
I think it will be evry wise of you to get the van back to speck for roadworthyness and safety issues etc.
As you know I own a 68 Franklin Caravelle and the van itself does sit quite low, however it is the easiest thing to tow...
no swaying, no bouncing, no problems.
regards
Peter
|
|
