Restored original versus modified vintage

[wildmanaus]

Hello
I agree with you as I find i like some modern comforts in life i know i keep my van as orrig as possable but its then its hard for the young family who i am trying to get in with the groove of VVing so when they grow up they will be the 50000th to join VVs
Thankyou Wildmanaus

[cobber]

G'day Jailbar my friend,
You've practacly invited me to respond, so I will

This is bound to be a contentious issue you have raised.

I have always said I admire the skill and ingenuity of hot rodders and some who modify things. I just prefer to travel down the other track, acknowledging that very rarely is it possible to say something is 100% unmodified...but we can try.
And there is nothing wrong with either hobby (that's all they are)

Anybody who deliberately goes down the modify path and hides their work in a cupboard or under the floor and then tries to tell me it's "un-modified" is pulling their own leg, not mine.

Why do I bother to try and keep things the way they were made ?
as a reference point I suppose.."this is the way it was".
If everybody modifies for comfort or "safety" or whatever, young people won't know, or believe, that caravan design has evolved from ice boxes.. metho stoves.. no blinkers.. no onboard water or 240 volt power (in ol' 36s case).

JBJ says:-

But I don't knock restored things. Why do you have to knock
modified? You might not like someones efforts, but isn't it easier to keep it to yourself than bag it?

This is definitely not meant as a shot at anyone, just a serious
comment on something I've observed on most of my life, which I feel is relevant to our hobby.

Apart from my shot at Reddo's 2006/7 built TD (which he has ever right to feel proud of, as a 2006 built TD, of his own design, if you can ever get him to be serious I bet / I would hope, he will acknowledge it ain't vintage) the only comments on this subject on this forum, I remember have been directed at the "purists" (you can almost see the sneer on the face) and from memory the purists have just let it ride, because as I say above, nobody can claim to be purist, it's easy to shoot them down.."you got radial tyres on that, they ain't original"..point won

I just rely on my dictionary to guide me...repair and restore is what I like to do, "preserve" is something I would like to do. if I could get hold of something in good enough condition to preserve.

"Rebuild" I'm very iffy about, if it's not a "repair".
"Reproduction" is just that.
"Modified" is just that.

In the end it's "to each his own" just don't feel bad if somebody says "that's modified".....'cause I don't feel bad if somebody says "that's original".

Cobber.

[Deleted]

Hi Cob and JBJ

Yeah righto Cobber . i have no problem admitting the 2006/07 build TD is not a vintage van. That is obviuos.

But judging by the thumbs up, please stop so we can take a few photos, and honking horns on todays little outing i am fooling 100% of the public....100% of the time
The only people that know the difference is us 500 or so on this website.

Perhaps we ... whether we are vintage van modifiers (rodders if you like) or restorers ( sticking to the original design and construction) should find some common ground and just enjoy each others efforts at maintaining the breed no matter how we achieve that.

At present there is only about 500 of us out of a population of 20 million that can pick the difference, that was proven at Motorfest.
So many times i heard the comment " what a lovely collection of vintage caravans you have here" . Not one of the unsuspecting public blew the whistle and cried "foul" at anyones van.
Everyone that stuck their heads in the doors of our vans left smiling and remaniscing about "The good old days" and to me that is worth more than any accolade. We have made others happy with our standard an modified vans both doing thier bit to promote our hobby ..

To me .....In the end it doesnt matter a "rats rear end" what we do to our vans to give them that individual touch. Only rules that matter is.
1 ... its pre 1970 and here is the big one No: 2 ... we are having fun with our hobby.

As Dennis has said before... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Then its a duck. Thats the way the other 20,000,000 see it.

thank god we are not a club and thank god we dont have judging at our runs... just a whole stack of people appreciating each others vans and having a bloody good time as well... what a bonus.

Reddo

[surferboy]

gday guys

I like to see restored, modified and new ones built in vintage ''style'' ( no i dont like reos, but i dont like pt cruisers either (sorry) )
In my case the ''cubbyhouse'' will be modified because it had previously been altered and would be immpossible to build back to original specs but i hope it will still retain an appearance of a vintage van when its being towed behind the FC (which is modified but looks original on the outside) but i doubt the interior will look to vintage

[cobber]

Surferboy,

I’m pleased to see you’re still with us

I hope you have put the bite on “Iain” for that 1930s book of caravan plans he said he has, I’d like to know more about that if you get it, and “bitingmidge” has given you the right “good guts” that's for sure

Cobber.

[surferboy]

gday cobber
i thought if i want to build a waterproof plywood caravan...
who better to ask than somebody who builds plywood boats ;D
will see if i can get the 1930s plans ??
site looks interesting

now back to this thread.(wouldnt want to start a whole new thread about going off topic, and other naughty things would we)... i dont think i'll take their advice about putting fibreglass over my plywood !

[belinda]

Hi Surferboy

I've always hoped someone on the site would take up the challenge of creating a really faithful version of one of the early plans. Lots of us have collected various books and no doubt there are more in your state library, so if you really wanted to give it a go there is a bank of accumulated information between all the site members.

When it comes to leaks in plywood vans, my feeling is that leaks seem to happen at really localised spots rather than all over. Our worst leaks were at the back window (fixed by re-fitting them with silicone rather than putty) and around the roof hatch (a bit more silicone).

The one remaining persistant leak is at the corner of one of the front windows and probably would need some more serious re-building to repair. Instead, we have opted to put up with a few drips and just keep water-vulnerable things away from there. Apart from that one problem, we are now pretty snug even in very heavy rain.

I think ply is a great material for vans. Head off to Bunnings this weekend and get hammering!

[Franklin1]

G'day All,
The question of maintaining "originality" of vintage vans is one that has perplexed me since I bought "Franklin Freedom" a year ago. When I discovered the rotten ply in all four bottom corners, around the back window, down the side of the door, and around the hatch, I realised I had quite a job to fix it up. The sensible option is to re-sheet the entire van but then I thought, "but it will no longer be original"! So I sat down and thought about what exactly is on the van that is no longer original? From the front to the back I made a mental list of things that have (or would have) changed from when it was built...the tow coupling, the gas bottle, the paint on the van, the curtains, the light globes, the fridge, the stove, the extra shelves put in, the tyres, the wheelbearings(?), the tail lights, the clearance lights, the number plate... And so I thought, "Crikey! There's a lot on this van that is no longer "original", so whatever I do to it, it has already been modified!" I decided that the best I can do is to restore it to be "representative" of what it might have generally looked like when it was first built. I figure I only have to satisfy nostalgia, so that's where I'm heading...

cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Belinda wrote:
"I think ply is a great material for vans. Head off to Bunnings this weekend and get hammering! "

Atta girl Belinda.. You tell 'em love.

Your life membership to "The Royal Society for Bondwood Preservation " is in the mail.

Surferboy... Good to hear from you again mate.
Fibreglass over ply ... Good to see ya canned that idea mate. Might be alright on Clinker or carvel hull boats or shark biscuits ( surfboards) but not on bondwood vans it makes them heavier and ugly like real fibreglass vans...

Oooooo wwwwaaaaa ... you cant say that reddo.

Reddonlytimberwilldo



.

[Koala]

Hi All
A question.
Do I understand that my teardrop being a reproduction of a 40's van is not welcome on this site because it is not an original pre 70's van or should I feel welcome as someone who is trying to keep history alive and has reproduced something that was hand built originally and open to variation by the orignal builders.
Interesting question don't you think??
Ken

[Deleted]

Hi ken

Dont ever feel as though you are some sort of "Black duck" on this site because you have have taken the time and made the effort to build/ reproduce your own version of australias touring heritage.

Just imagine the bung fight if all the mass production van companies from back in the 30s/40s andf 50s had cried foul at the "home grown " vans built by those enterprising backyard souls that built there "one off specials ( Hot Rods ) " back then. Half the van owners on this site today would be in the same boat as us two

Ok they may have been built back then and so qualify as a true vintage van but Hey... the only difference between us ( todays vint van hot rodders) and them is the time span.
We have gotta rank higher than those crouts that are knocking out the $20,000 + Reos and t@bs teardrops.....late model vint van replicas in the true sense of the word "REPLICA"

. As i said in my reply to the original question. No matter whether its a genuine 100% restoration , a modified ( hot rodded in some peoples lingo) or a replica which is sympathetic to an original 1930/40 or 50s plan. I reckon we ( me and you and probably a dozen other forum members) are doing our bit to keep the dream alive. Every day there is another original van shoved over the face of the local tip.
Whilever there is blokes like me, you and everyone else on this site doing our level best to rescue, save, restore, customise or whatever else it takes to maintain some sort of collection of these old wooden wanders ( and f/glass and Alloy) We can be assured that something will be left for the children of tommorow to marvel at.

Dont beat yourself up mate.
If some. ....One....... has a shot at you ... just ask what are they doing to keep the dream alive. Chances are they dont even own a van and have never experienced the sweet smell of lead based paint in the air , the bleeding knuckles,black fingernails, the missed meals with the family because you just couldnt leave something half done, or the sight of saw dust and wood shavings on the floor of thier shed.

Its all too easy to buy the dream. Do a cheque book restoration and call yourself a vintage vanner. you've gotta be hands on and , drawn your own blood, completed a restoration and or maybe added your own personal touches to get a real sense of what these old vans are all about.

I may be slotted into a different category than you because i have an orignal van ( Matilda) and a genuine circa 1948 TD to point to when the knockers start on me about Hot rodding a vint TD van. Sorta hard to argue that i dont have real passion for old vans eh .

So go ahead .. stick a set of spats on it, buy some white walls... be a real rebel and fit a 50mm quick release coupling ... whoooooaaaa . and when the proverbial starts spraying off the fan. just ask the knockers "where's yours"

Just dont forget to buy a "www.vintagecaravans.com" sticker , slap it on your van and spread the word.

restored or rodded...
Its all good fun

Shit..... arent i gunna cop some flack after posting this ;D ;D ;D

Reddo.

[Roehm3108]

For the sake of continuity, here is a reminder of my thoughts on this subject, as aired in the thread on Reddo's 20 year project:
"I just gotta say one thing about all this debating about VV restorations vs repair vs replicating - GET A LIFE!!!
We all see things differently, and provided we remain true to the concept that we will muck around with pre 1970 vintage stuff, that's all that's required. After all, we are into V vanning to have FUN, not get hung up about remaining faithful to the nth degree about everything in a van. One person chooses to have a bar fridge for convenience, the other rips the bar fridge out and re-instals an ice-box. Whichever way it goes, it is that person's way of lving out his dream of vintage vanning.
Let's not kid ourselves and think that our fathers/grandfathers had this "thing" about being true to the original at the expense of comforts/fun - of course they modified their vans - as much as they could afford to in their time and as much as the technology existed. After all, why were so many of these vans sold as shells only and outfitted by the owners? Even more so, what about all those home-built vans? I bet half of them didn't even have a plan to work with!!!
I would rather hear a story about where you went for the weekend and have pics to show us what fun you had, than being here on the internet debating about what ends up being personal taste/interpretation. We seem to focus on the group gatherings and post pics etc for ages about those events. Why aren't we also posting pics and stories of the things we did in between times? Is it because we aren't doing anything? The person who does seem to do other things in between times is Reddo, and he shares his stories with us. What about the rest of youse/us. Get out there, even if it's only camping in the back yard with the kids, or on a farmer's paddock with a hole in the ground for a dunny and a muddy creek for a bathroom."
Personally, I had a great Easter vintage-vanning in Cania Gorge near Monto up here in God's garden. Yep, took my own advice, and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Now if only I can still remember how that p/bucket thingy works I can post some pics shortly!
Ray

[sportsman 1]

Hi Ken, I own a 1939 Sportsman teardrop which I bought as a not very good, missing bits, decayed and already modified project 15 years ago. It had been fiddled with by the last owners and had not turned a wheel since 1972.
I have fixed the rot, reclad the top and sides, made a new drawbar, changed the hubs and wheels, repainted it, altered the kitchen for functionality, etc, etc.
About the only "original" bits left are most of the frame and cladding (I clad over the original for strength) and the shadow it casts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After many years of use and fun travelling all over Aus I discovered this site when told of it at the Bendigo swap last year. (A BIG THANKS TO WHOEVER THAT WAS.) I have just returned from the Vic display at Churchill island where I met a fabulous bunch of people, had a ball and the public who saw my van and an immaculate restored postwar Sportsman right next door could not tell when either was built and I am quite sure could not care less.
Neither should we, as long as we are presenting the basic ideals of caravanning of the bygone era.
If your van looks like a period van, using the basic construction techniques of the era and is used as the originals would have been I see no problem at all in welcoming you to join us all and get the fun and enjoyment from it.
I am planning a trip from Melbourne to Darwin via Port Augusta, William Creek, Oodnadatta, Uluru, Alice, etc and returning through North Queensland and Central N.S.W. in July and August with the 1953 Vauxhall Vagabond and Sportsman and I will be spreading the message to anybody who cares to take an interest.

Lets all get out there and have some fun, we are all too short on the planet to care!

Cheers for now to all,

Leigh.

[fbmad]

I saw Reddo's new/old teardrop in the flesh last Wednesday and its bloody brilliant!! He's used a majority of old van parts wherever possible and new parts here and there when old parts are no longer available or safety considerations come into play.

I refer to the old adage that if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then its definately a duck!!

Terry.