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Post by franivy on Jun 14, 2011 17:52:03 GMT 10
This caravan is advertised in the July issue of Australian Classic Car Magazine (Issue 216). Posting the photo for general interest. It is described as "Near Perfect inside and out, 15inch Ford Mainline stud pattern, shed storage since 1950, original annexe". Sounds like a nice buy. Alas, no where-with-all.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 14, 2011 21:02:50 GMT 10
G'day Franivy, That's a very interesting van. After some exhaustive research,  I think the sign indicates that it is a Victorian-built Paramount. At least that's the only V V brandname which fits the nameplate, and Paramount used a nameplate consisting of red plastic letters on a backboard like the one on this van in the mid-50's. What's particularly interesting is that it is a "toaster" style van, like the 50's style Caraparks. A couple of possibilities occur to me: 1. It's commercial van built by Paramount themselves. 2. It's a re-badged Carapark, although some of the angles don't seem quite right for a Carapark and I haven't seen the double window in a Carapark toaster before. 3. It's a re-badged Franklin, which also built toaster style vans for commercial uses. Hopefully somebody will be able to enlighten us, but in the meantime thanks for posting the pic. It's good to have something to exercise the brain cells over...  Don Ricardo |
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Post by overlanda on Jun 14, 2011 22:40:56 GMT 10
Of what i can remember of the commercial Franklin vans they only used rounded bottom windows and the radius on the corners was not as big and they did not use that style of door handle.
On the Caraparks i cannot remember seeing the crescent mould that big around the bottom and the draw bar was different and the wheel arch is not as high. I do remember seeing a couple of old Paramount vans many years ago but i cannot remember where . Regards Gerald
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Post by Franklin1 on Jun 14, 2011 22:50:29 GMT 10
G'day DonR and franivy,
How significant is the 15" Ford Mainline stud pattern, in terms of narrowing down the possible year of production? I wouldn't have thought Franklin had advanced enough as a business to be making these sorts of vans in the 1950s. DonR, the Franklin toaster van that you've posted elsewhere on the forum previously, is actually from the mid-1970 to mid-1972 time period, but I really have no idea how early they started to make these sorts of commercial vans.
Since I'm not a car enthusiast, the Ford Mainline era means nothing to me, but I sense it must have been at an earlier time if the van has had "shed storage since 1950". That would tend to make me think it must have been made by Carapark rather than anyone else. I wonder if the windows mean it might have been made specially for the Paramount brand name, rather than just rebadge a 'standard' Carapark van? Was rebadging of Carapark vans all that common?
I've said on this forum previously that the archives say that in 1956 Carapark was producing more caravans than the rest of the manufacturers in the Commonwealth combined. There can't have been too many other manufacturers in the '50s with the ability to make these monsters.
cheers,
Al.
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Post by franivy on Jun 14, 2011 23:11:21 GMT 10
Is there a hint in the nameplate? Looks like some letters are missing, maybe an "O" and a "U" between the M and N, and one or two missing from the beginning of the word? (Just my two-cents worth, I am entirely ignorant of VV's!
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Post by franivy on Jun 14, 2011 23:12:53 GMT 10
Oops, just realised that Don Ricardo's post said just that! Sorry! Of course it is PARAMOUNT. (Egg on Face)
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Post by kaybee on Jun 15, 2011 7:39:50 GMT 10
G'day DonR and franivy, How significant is the 15" Ford Mainline stud pattern, in terms of narrowing down the possible year of production? Since I'm not a car enthusiast, the Ford Mainline era means nothing to me, cheers, Al. ....I can help you out a little there, whether it's any use remains to be seen..... .... Mainline wheels are 16" diameter , Ford Customline are the 15" wheels and they first hit the streets in 1952 and were used right through the rest of the Customline series and into the '59 and '60 Fairlanes.....a mine of useless info ,eh?...... ;D |
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Post by Franklin1 on Jun 25, 2011 19:41:39 GMT 10
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Post by Roehm3108 on Jun 25, 2011 19:57:05 GMT 10
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Post by Jennison on Jun 25, 2011 20:46:15 GMT 10
What a time capsule!!
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Post by cobber on Jun 26, 2011 7:00:15 GMT 10
G'day Al, Thanks for posting the link to the Gumtree advertisement, it answers all the questions doesn't it. Rare to find a Carapark Toaster in this original condition....they usually have the innards stripped out of them and finish up as a storage shed...... or a chook house. Rare to see them at this price too..... (which is not a comment on the price  ) Cobber. |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 26, 2011 7:59:56 GMT 10
...it answers all the questions doesn't it. Hi Cobber, Well the description is one of the most complete I've ever read. But it doesn't quite answer all the questions... What I'm still puzzled about is why it has a Paramount name plate on it? Did the owner find the name plate on the road and think that Paramount sounded better than Carapark? Maybe, but unlikely I think. ;D ;D ;D Or was there some sort of commercial link between Paramount and Carapark. I can't remember any instances of badge engineering with Carapark can you (apart from the home built versions)? Don Ricardo |
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Post by cobber on Jun 26, 2011 9:49:37 GMT 10
G'day Don R, It is interesting that this van is described as a “Paramount built Carapark”..... I think that should read “Paramount modified Carapark” The Paramounts built in Victoria I think may have started out building their own caravans from the ground up but like many manufacturers of that time found it was easier/cheaper/better to source the chassis and shell from somebody like Carapark and then fit it out and do some cosmetic alterations to make it their own, then have a name plate made up with red letters on a white plastic background. When ever I see a name plate made out of red letters on a white background I smell a rat. Carapark were so well established in NSW Victoria and S A in the 1950's, and were such large suppliers of kits, accessories and fittings that I would really like to know how often their components...from the chassis up, were used in caravans that ended up with a different name plate on them. One of the most definite examples of a Carapark being sold as something else is my Newcastle Caravan (see reply #4). And this Paramount has a few Carapark characteristics about it too. We should remember it is comparatively easy to fit larger and different windows in a shell and alter the shape of the wheel arch..... I suspect a lot of that went on in the 1950's. My two bobs worth......... for what it is worth Cobber. |
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e38e49
Junior Member
27 ft carapark
Posts: 66 
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Post by e38e49 on Jun 26, 2011 10:49:56 GMT 10
i`ve seen a van like this one before it was in the late 60`s or early 70`s it was for sale in a caravan yard on the Hume HWY near Banktown, i remember the windows were different & it also had the beading around the bottom like this one, the name tag said Carapark, the dealer at the time said it was a SA built Carapark,
Cheer`s harold
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 26, 2011 22:15:52 GMT 10
Hi Cobber and e38e49, You have both made some interesting points. Thanks for pointing out some examples of Carapark badge engineering, Cobber. I agree that it is most likely to be a Paramount built by Carapark, although I kinda like my theory about the owner picking up a Paramount name plate beside the road and sticking it on his van! ;D ;D ;D That's very interesting information you've provided about Caraparks built in SA, e38e49. We have talked on the forum before about some Carapark models that were unique to the SA factory, so maybe they built some "toaster" models there as well? Although the seller says that the van was given as a wedding present, the fitout does strike me as sort of industrial - the use of the steel poles instead of wood for the bunk bed supports, etc. My impression is that most Carapark "toasters" used conventional furnishings (wood, laminex, etc). I wondered if this van is based on one of the commercial models Carapark built. What do you both think? e38 (hope you don't mind me calling you by your first name? ), you seem to have a bit of a history with Carapark vans - not to mention the big one in your avatar. Is it just because you've had a few of them in your time, or because you have some professional or trade knowledge? Don Ricardo |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jul 3, 2011 19:54:03 GMT 10
In response to the question in the post above about the source of his knowledge of Carapark caravans, e38e49 wrote:Hi Don,
Sorry no trade knowledge, but we used to travel in vans, i was reared in Caraparks & when i was a kid when ever we where around Sydney the entertainment of a weekend seened to caravan hunting, my Farther 1st van was a Carapark hunter Bondwood, the second was a12/9 sloper & his 3rd one was a16/2 he bought it new from Canoblis caravan yard in Orange they where the agent, Carapark at the time had a special on they where running out the square model vans this was 1960, most 16/2 caraparks layouts where niteday bed at the front with 2 singals & table at the rear with varnished cupboard doors & carpet, but the one my Farther bought had the table at the front with singals at the rear flamingo colored doors & lino or tiles on the floor, i think it was a budget model i remember the price was around 950 pounds,
i`ve never herd the word toaster in referance to a Carapark until i came onto this site, where did this term come from?
Cheer`s Harold.
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Post by seeshell on Jul 3, 2011 21:16:05 GMT 10
Hi Harold
I don't know about the use of the language in Australia, but for many years I'd heard that terminology in the USA - ali vans referred to as both "canned ham" and "toasters". Usually the canned ham is the more rounded shaped ali vans, and the more vertically sided, squared off vans were "toasters".
Perhaps Bolerific would like to weigh in on the terms in Canada?
Cheers
Seeshell
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