240 volt electrical question

[fireballv8]

I have a question for the electrical minded on the site. When fitting up new 240 volt interior lights, I have found that the electrical cable to the two rear lights has only the two wires (active and neutral), but no earth wire. Can I earth the lights through to the aluminum skin with a length of suitable wire? I have tested the earth pin on the inlet socket for the 240 volt power cable, to see if it was earthed to the skin,as well as the chassis and it was. Is this a safe way to earth the lights?
the front light has a earth wire in the cable, so no problems there, and the outside light is one I fitted myself ( the Valiant never had a outside light fitted) and earthed through the wiring.
Any Ideas from anyone?

[curtis]

Hi Fireballv8

Firstly let me state that I am not an electrician, so feel free to check what I am about to say ;D ;D ;D

I would not earth ANYTHING 240 volt to the body of a caravan and here is why:

1. Let's say the electrical device fails and goes to earth (the body of the van). This would make the entire shell of your van live, and the poor sap standing on the ground and leaning (or touching) your van would become a conductor to earth (the actual ground) and likely die in the process.

2. It is very likely that all your 12 volt lights (brake, tail indicators etc) will be earthed through the body of your van. This is normal practice. Earthing your 240 volt fittings to the body of the van would put a 12 volt connection to all your 240 volt fittings - which would be no problem when they are working fine, but a slight earth leakage would reverse the connection putting 240 volts into your tow vehicle of it is connected.

I am sure there are many other reasons but these are the first 2 I thought of. I would make very sure that all wires with the potential to carry 240 volts are very well insulated from any metal part of the van. Best to change the set up of your 240 volt inlet connection. Who knows why your inlet is earthed to the body

Back in the day there was no requirement for light fittings to have an earth wire, so this is why it isn't present. I am not sure when the requirement came in perhaps someone else can tell us that. Do you have an option to run an additional wire?? It is not particularly necessary, but a nice to have in case the fitting has a real failure.

Remember I am not a sparkie, but I would not earth anything 240 volt to the body of the van, just in case it came live.

Regards
Dave

[atouchofglass]

Hey fireballv8
Was involved with air conditioning and electrical business last year and the wise way to do is simple

HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN

There is a reason that it is illegal to do your own electrics.....
It just might kill you or someone else.
Any savings you might make doing it yourself will seem insignificant if you kill someone.

Please take this seriously
240volt is deadly.
That is why so many are converting to 12v electrics for lighting.

Also wise to replace the old wiring with new.... active, earth and neutral.

Then the earth is back through the lead.

Cheers
Atog

[curtis]

Agreed - always be safe with 240 volts. Get an electrician.

[fireballv8]

Ok thanks for your info. What I'd like someone to do is test their van, with a multi meter, to see if the skin of the van is connected to the earth pin on the inlet. All caravans I have worked on have had a earth wire from the inlet, down to the chassis, and therefore the skin is earthed as well. I feel that the skin would have to be earthed, so a short to the skin would then travel down the earth wire back to the socket, and off to the earth on the 240 volt power point.

[frankidownunder]

Hi fireballv8,
Yes, one wire from the earth terminal on the 240 volt inlet must go to the chassis of the van.DO NOT EARTH COMPONENTS TO THE VAN SKIN, the skin may not be properly connected to the chassis and this could leave it live if something goes wrong.

As the others have said, unless you have electrical qualifications get a licensed electrician to do the work or at least check it out for you for safety's sake. you only get one chance with high voltage. Thats it. you're dead a long time.

Frankidownunder.

[DC3Td]

Forty or so years ago whilst traveling around Oz on the show circuit a young lad thought he`d be smart & connect his caravan 240v direct to a 12v battery! Didn`t work out for either. Months later at a show in Bega whilst using a 415v rectifier there was a leak which shorted thru the van. Big bang,saw stars & scared the wits out of me. So pretty wary of anything over 12v these days. cheers gordon

[fireballv8]

Thanks for all your advice, I will endeavor to run a earth wire from the main inlet socket. I also will fit a earth leakage detector to the inlet , so that will keep me alive

[rivetsandsteel]

Hi fireballv8 and other members
I two am looking for wiring standards for my project van a leco friend told me vans require 2 pole switching and a different type of wire from domestic stuff I am trying to find Australian Standard 3001 for compliance If any one has or knows of a free down load it would be greatly appreciated thanks rivets and steel

[cobber]

G'day rivetsandsteel,

As you've probably discovered mate there's nothing for nothing.

this is the PDF teaser for AS/NZ 3001:2001...... you pay for the rest of it.

However.......... this bloke gives a run down on some of the points in AS 3001.

Personally if I were you and I had a mate who is a sparky I'd make use of him ...... it's what mates are for .

Cobber.

[atouchofglass]

Hey R&S
When I rebuilt my van and put it up for registration.....
They didn't even look at the wiring.

We used 2.5mm power wire 3 core or neutral active and earth
Your mate is right about the switches
They need to be double poled
That means that the switch itself isn't live at any time
Unlike normal switches used in housing

Use the sparkie and all the best with the rebuild

Cheers
Atog

[Roehm3108]

Hey cobber, I think that your references above relate more to the park wiring and connecting to the van, rather than the actual van wiring itself.
I agree with the others - if you have to ask about things 240v electrical, then you shouldn't be playing around with it and leave it to the experts. Remember too that if something happens to the van because of incorrect wiring, all insurance claims will be knocked back. Assessors go through electrical fire claims with a fine tooth-comb

[Franklin1]

If you want to understand the "basics" of wiring your van, go here:

www.caravansplus.com.au/detail-pages/electrical-240v.htm


I agree with the others above - if you don't know what you're doing, DON'T do it! If you DO know what you're doing, then in agreement with your electrician mate, you could do a fair bit of the wiring yourself, and get your sparky mate to make the final connections and checks.

Wiring up a van is not rocket science, but you can easily end up with a rocket up your when you plug that electrical extension lead in and flick the switch. BZZZZZZT! "We are gathered here today to say "Farewell" to one of our dearest friends..."

Al.