New member with a few questions

[runnin4life]

Hi all
I'm rather new around here. My name is Elliot and I'm 21
I'm looking at building, actually I AM building a tear drop trailer.
I have a few questions.
Firstly is there a build or project section on this forum?

Does any one have any tips with how I should go about building the van. I have a rough idea in my head and I've put a few idea's down on paper but still feel like I'm jumping in the deep end.

I've found quite a few 50's and 60's articles detailing how to make one but I don't trust wooden chassis or my wood working abilities, I'm a sheet metal workers not a carpenter.

I'm also aiming to get this trailer as low and as light as possible because I own a late 80's Japanese import that's a little bit lower than most sedans.

It may up set some of you know I'm getting some of my major parts like axle, hitch, jockey wheel and holder etc from what I guess to be a 60's aluminium clad viscount(not sure if that's the correct spelling) van, I plan to use most of the aluminium cladding as well


Hopefully I haven't broken any rules with this
cheers
Elliot

[DC3Td]

Howdy Elliot. Welcome to the forum. Glad to see the younger generation getting involved with this foray into vin vanning. First off,got a (general) location? Makes it easier for those that may live in the proximity to give you ideas as to where particular items are available. Picture or two could help also. Check how in "Photobucket" section here.Just how bad is this Viscount you`re scavenging parts from? If you go into our Caravan makes/models you`ll come across the Index. Scan down to "Teardrops" for a few pics to give you an idea.Also perhaps if you`ve got some pencil diagrams/ideas put them up here so we may be of further to help you. Cheers Gordon (teardrop owner,see my avatar or teardrop pic)

[runnin4life]

thanks for the quick reply, this viscount has a pretty rotten floor, half the inside walls are rotten.
half of the cuboards etc have been replaced with home made MDF peices.
The story behind it is one of my grand fathers friends bought it to go around Australia (either new or not very old at the time) then my grand parents used it for a while. It sat on my uncles farm(where my grand parents lived for the last 30+ years) and then my parents bought it for my brother to live out of it in the back yard.
It's chassis seams pretty straight, although the silver paint (or maybe gal dipped) is all flacky and manky it seams pretty much rust free. All the windows are there.
it will be wrecked, as we had to bring it into our yard via a neighbours property and its no longer an option to remove the same way.

I'm aiming for a design like these two with a front and rear overhang.


I'll upload some sketches i have for the chassis
I'm in western Sydney btw

[runnin4life]

sorry about the poor quality, it would appear my scanner wont scan a true A4 page, I'm assuming it wont scan to the full edge of the page as most documents arent full width.
any ways here is what i had planned for the chassis
50x50x2mm wall box section for the A-frame, out sides of the chassis, front and rear cross members. Then some 40x40 or 25x25 for the other cross members which are there purely to support a piece of 10mm ply wood as the floor.

Then I planned on cutting to pieces of ply wood as the sides, then some bits of say 25x25 pine every 200mm along the roof line to attach some thin wood to.
I then want to cover it in sheet metal.
have I gone a little over kill, is there a lighter and easier way to make a tear drop.
here is the scan on my sketch

[DC3Td]

Hi Elliot. Western Sydney eh? Me too. Out Liverpool way. Couple of forum members -veedubnut & sportsman both have rather unique teardrops. Veedubnut did what you`re up against with a total rebuild to his design.Mine? It`s original build/design but had been enhanced somewhat thru the years.cheers gordon

[DC3Td]

Not overkill in my books. I`m a sheety too.Aluminium skin would be my choice though.You`ve pretty much got the 200mil measures about spot on. 250 would be better for the fact the timber rails are 25 square. And probably not pine but a harder timber.Whether metal or aluminium roof skin,the wood fixing rails underneath will warp over time as timber today aint what it used to be like.Something to think about.cheers

[JBJ]

Hi,

Most chassis seem to be a perimeter frame, with a drawbar starting around axle centreline running from both sides under the perimeter frame to the tow hitch, in a vee shape.
Same as a box trailer. Sizes will be all over the place, but a 100X50X2 drawbar assembly is adequate for a 1 tonne box trailer, so should cause no grief with a teardrop, The perimeter frame can be pretty well any size. Normally you will build anything stronger than required because of what you have observed in the past. Most older vans & trailers are oversized.
The sides & top can be ply, & check thru the posts from reddo, & Kaybee, on teardrops.

Might take a bit of finding, but there is heaps of info in this Forum.

JBJd

[Don Ricardo]

G'day Elliott,

That's a good project you've got going there, and you've come to a good place to get advice. There are a few people on the forum who have gone down the same path as you, either rebuilding a teardrop or building a replica from new. (We only mention the latter option in a whisper... ;D ;D ;D )

I'm not a technical or engineering guru in any way at all, and I'm still searching for a practical bone in my body, so I won't be any help to you, and will keep quiet on the subject after this post. BUT I do have some 1939 plans for a teardrop or caravanette if that is any use to you. Depends on how authentic looking you want your replica to be, I guess...and whether a 1939 design appeals to you.

The plans say that the teardrop can be built for 25 pounds 18 shillings - around about $52 - and that includes the wheels and axle which were priced at 13 pounds - $26. If only that still applied in 2010... ;D ;D ;D

Don Ricardo

[Franklin1]

G'day Elliot, in addition to the information given to you above, plus all the other information scattered throughout this forum relating to teardrops, we have a thread in our History section covering teardrops.

Click on this link to take you there: Teardrops - general. I can't guarantee all the internet links in this thread are still working these days, but you can test them out if you like.

The other thread you might be interested in reading is one on our sister forum for Classic Caravans. A new member from Tassie is in the process of building a teardrop, and he's posted plenty of photos, so there could be something there of interest. Click on this link: Teardrop build.

And let me just give you this note of caution about the links I've given you above. I don't necessarily endorse any of the info contained in any of the links. I have no expertise whatsoever in relation to teardrops, so I don't know what you should do or shouldn't do. The information is for you to consider, and if in any doubt, post as many questions on this thread as you like. ;D

Good luck, and cheers,
Al.

[Deleted]

Hi Elliot.
Welcome to the old van forum.
Dont ever be afraid to ask questions. There is a stack of us out there with chunks out of us from cutting ourselves on "The learning curve "

good onya for having a go at designing and building your own van.
Ya have to remember the whole vintage caravan thing would not of happened if everyone back in the 20s and 30s had waited for someone to come up with a caravan design, manufacture and sell them to the ,masses.
Back in those days what we call äussie enginuity was rife.
People where knocking up all sorts of contraptions to take away camping behind thier cars.
So.. why should us blokes be shackled by modern day stereotypes of what a van ( or vintage van ) should look like...

I built a TD ( the ones that people whisper about here on the forum .. aka ... vintage replica) back in 2006.

Another bloke from down Canberra way .. Koala400 ( Ken ) has built a couple of magnificent replica TDs.

Good luck with your project. It sounds like you have things nutted out in your head and if the TD comes out anything like the 2 examples you have posted here.. well... you will have built a winner in my humble opinion.

Here is the link to my effort...
.
vintagecaravans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=photo&action=display&thread=1311&page=1

Good luck in your endeavours .. i wish you well. Keep us posted on your progress..
Reddo... Vintage van tragic since August 2004 ;D

[mezmo]

Hi Elliot/runnin4life

I'm a newer member from the U.S. .

There is a forum here called "Teardrops & Tiny Travel Trailers"
that could be a good resource for you. It's basis is getting
together people who are either building Teardrops, smaller
Travel Trailers (Caravans) or restoring vintage or classic ones.

Either google T&TTT, or use this link:

www.mikenchell.com/forums/

There is a huge range of info available on it and the members
are nice and friendly just like those here on the Vintage Caravans
forum.

They have a worldwide membership. Mainly Americans, since
that is the forums origin, but there are active participating
members from Australia, New Zealand, Britain, continental
Europe and South Africa as well. It'd be another way to get
in touch with your fellow countrymen who have already built
their Teardrop and who could be fonts of information and parts
sourcing for you.

Between VC and T&TTT you should be able to cover all your
questions and needs for your build.

This forum had a couple of neat old TD finds that I think would
be great to replicate or at least be sources of inspiration.
Perhaps they'd be a bit larger than you are now thinking of but
I think both are great designs in and of themselves. I can't
locate the threads at the moment but both were white painted
bondwoods with the bed crosswise at the front and and in the
rear both had floors that dropped down in the middle with the kitchen/galley and storage on either side of the drop-floor under the rear raised hatch. I think they were posts by either reddo
or cobber but I'm not sure. They're worth looking at if you can
find them. Hopefully, maybe someone else will recall them and
can help locate the threads.

'Hope this could help you.

Mezmo/Norm

[runnin4life]

Thanks for the replies so far guys,
i think i may have changed my mind and im not going with a steel box section frame/profile and thing 3-5mm ply wood or sheet metal riveted on.
Hopefully next week i can start buying metal to make the chassis/frame.
cheers
elliot

[DC3Td]

Hi Elliot. Think that 3 to 5mm ply sheeting is going to be far too thin for your walling/roof. 12mm would be the very least thickness for walls. Sealed,primed & painted it won`t give you any problems with shrinkage/warping. Me personally, i`d stick with the 50 x 50 box for the chassis as you`ll need to account for the welding of leaf springs/brackets/axle & you`ll want good support strength. Cross members i`d probably go 30 x 30 tube. 30 x 30 x 2.5 angle would be fine for wall frames as these can be screwed,bolted or welded to the chassis. The "A" frame should be around 50 x 50 angle/box. Once you get to the stage of chassis/frame being finished (ready for cladding) then it`s either 12mm ply/aluminium or metal sides/roof.Doing it in either you know the drill - mark out & measure twice. Work from the centre outward/downward to alleviate buckleing.Keep us all informed on the progress. cheers gordon

[Jim]

Elliot

Any construction needs a good foundation – here’s a suggestion for the frame and drawbar on your teardrop.

Drawbar..
The drawbar in your sketch (reply #3) is designed to break, especially if you intend to use short stiff leaf springs.

It's best to continue the drawbar rails under the frame, back to a point just forward of the front spring hangers.

Running the drawbar under the frame eliminates the weak joints at the front rail, as well as trussing and triangulating the front part of the frame.

If you wish to consider fitting a full width front storage box, extend the drawbar to (about) 1500 mm using 75 x 50 x 3 RHS.

This will reduce the drawbar’s included angle (desirable) and give you a better turn in (jack knife) angle without the storage box fouling on the tow vehicle.

Frame..
Your ‘frame’ is ok using 50 x 50 SHS around the perimeter, and using a smaller section as cross braces..

But - 65 x 35 RHS is a stronger perimeter (for the same weight as 50 x 50), with (say) 25 x 50 RHS intermediate supports.

The depth of the perimeter frame and intermediate supports is important if the super structure is ply, laminate or timber ‘stick’ construction..
It can be less if the frame, the sides and connections over the roof are welded steel tube construction

Suspension..
Add a side laminate section of the same size material, along the inside of the frame to accommodate the spring hangers..

If your budget can run to the added cost of eye to eye springs, avoid using slipper springs.
If not, add a wear plate to the base of the frame were the slipper end of the spring slides run.

Better still, add an independent coil sprung suspension, but that will really blow your budget away..
A reasonable compromise is a ‘Symonds Knee’ suspension – but suspensions are probably another subject for another time..

Before you finish all that you need to think about the axle positioning on the frame..

Jim

[runnin4life]

Hi, guys
all your suggestions have been great, I'm already a little too far in to make use of some of the suggestions about the A frame, I went with the plan to keep the A-frame as part of the chassis rather than bellow the box/chassis section. To help stop any possibilities of it cracking or weakening, i plan on putting heavy gussets on the inside and some rather heavy plate on the bottom and top side.
If it ever shows any signs of failing ill just chop it off and weld a new one underneath.

When it comes to axle position, I was going to simply dummy fit the axle and springs etc under the trailer and then add all my things I plan to carry in the area's I plan for them to go . I should then be able to position the axle so I have roughly 20-40kg of down weight on the ball, Is this a good idea?.
I assume that because majority of my removable weight (food, utensils, stove, esky etc) will be at the rear I will need the axle to be a little closer to the rear than compared with a traditional box trailer.

for the springs I was planning on pulling 3, maybe 4 springs from the pack as its around the 7 or 8 spring count. I was going to leave the 3 main leaves and maybe the bottom 1 or 2 springs.

[DC3Td]

Hi Elliot. Have a look at Franklins Reply 8 on previous page. Then click onto the highlighted link -TEARDROP BUILD. A new page will open showing you amongst other pics, a chassis build.You really would need to build your chassis like the one pictured.Heavy gussets/extra plating won`t mean jack all when all said & done. Alternatively, as it sounds like you`ve got the A frame set up,run a length of 75 x 75 box starting under the rear & under each cross member right thru to the V of the A frame.WELD at all cross member points right thru to the point where the hitch is bolted to.


As an example here,your A frame needs to be welded under the chassis like these pics show (although these are trailers,i guarantee them to carry 2 ton). The basic trailer (above) with tool box on front has the A frame welded (excluding what the tool box is sitting on) 350mm/14" or so back from the front corner. It runs Hillman 9 leaf springs. The crane trailer about the same with h/d 5 leaf springs.Ideally 500mm would probably even be better. It took 3 of us just to lift the bare chassis! Like i said, these are trailers but you have to consider not just what you`re putting in them but what roads you`ll be travelling on. Same applies to your Teardrop. cheers gordon

[JBJ]

Hi Runnin4life,


You probably will regret doing your A frame as you did.

I've seen a few break done that way, even with gussets.

The reason us older guys tell you this is we've seen it fail like yoiu have done, & it never breaks at home where your tools are.

Its easier to change it while you are building it, than trying to fix it on the side of the road when it inevitably breaks.

Its your call, but I believe we cant stress enough the bad engineering you are creating.

JBJ

[DC3Td]

Hi Elliot. If you want to call by sometime to have a captain cook at some chassis` send a PM. Only too happy to help out. cheers gordon

[runnin4life]

Mar 10, 2010 20:47:07 GMT 10 DC3Td said:

Alternatively, as it sounds like you`ve got the A frame set up,run a length of 75 x 75 box starting under the rear & under each cross member right thru to the V of the A frame.WELD at all cross member points right thru to the point where the hitch is bolted to.

do you mean similiar to this?


my other option is to cut the draw bar off and place it under the frame, would 200mm of the draw bar under the frame be sufficient or too weak? atm my draw bar is 1200mm long if i put 200mm under the frame it takes it back to 1m, i dont want to go much shorter than that unless i have too.

[DC3Td]

Hi Elliot. That`s a pretty damn good looking frame.However,the weakest point is where your A frame meets the rest of the chassis.

My suggestion is to weld an additional framework highlighted in white underneath.The black arrows show the weakest point at the moment. The A frame will snap if there is insufficient bracing. If you cut the A frame off you will have to reconfigure its angles so that it sits at least 300mm under. This second picture shows roughly how your A frame should be situated underneath allowing for a minimum 300mm from your front cross member.The black dots represent where it should be welded.

Alternatively,you could leave the A frame as is & run a length of box under (from the very back & finish where the yellow line ends) with say some 50 x 50 angle pieces welded to it & all cross members.You would still have to weld in place 2 x 5mm thick plates similar to ones i`ve marked (squares) under where the A frame meets the chassis` front cross member as support. (They don`t have to be as big as i`ve highlighted but follow the shape/angles of outer edges of A frame/chassis.)
Bit of mucking about but better to be safe & besides i doubt in the current method its made it won`t pass inspection. cheers gordon

[atouchofglass]

This is the great thing about this site

Good practical advice, saving of many tears and heartache on the side of the road.


Had never looked at the engineering side of the chassis before this thread.

Thanks Guys

To take this one step further.
Where do the springs/axle normally go in relation to the chassis and why?
Is there a formula or just a general rule for placing the axle/axles?

Atog

[DC3Td]

Hi Atog.There apparently is a formula dependant on weight on tow ball. I haven`t followed that particular formula as can be seen re my two trailer pics. All i did on mine was measure to the centre of the chassis (excluding the A frame) & centred the axle 2"/50mm towards the back.Seems to have worked fine for me.That crane/hoist trailer i allowed for the hoist to be mounted on a tow bar & tongue at rear also(the bumper unbolts off it) & as such it has perfect balance without using the jockey wheel.Purely done as an experiment. However i also have wind-downs under rear when i need to load from back. Wait till you see the next tilt trailer! cheers gordon

[Jellybean]

Hi Elliot. Will be good to see this come along. We built ours in 2008 and has had heaps of use and we dont intend to stop. You mention having the axle to the back . This is like you said, better weight distribution but also to give you more room for the doors and they just look more in proportion. Ours has 12 mm ply sides painted, roof is timber ribs covered with masonite then aluminium glued down to that. We have done a lot of miles on rough roads and 2years later it is holding together really well. Im sure you will enjoy building yours. The first part of construction happens pretty quick but the final fit and finish takes a while. Ours took about ten months mainly just weekends. Anyway ,have fun building , its well worth it. Cheers John and Dianne (black cappachino teardrop)