what is the frame made off?

[paddles]

Oh! NO! We have found borers! stripping is commencing! but does anybody know what the frame is made off? Hardwood? Pine? etc.

we will be removing the cladding to get everything borer infected out! Hoping against hope that it doesn't rain! (Not likely up here!) but what would be the next step?

Thanking you all!

[Franklin1]

Paddles, let me clarify something first...is it you that is stripping because you found borers, or did you find borers after stripping something off the van?? If it is you, then you can put your clothes back on NOW!...your hubby is trying to focus on the frame!! ;D ;D

I'm kinda guessing that the problem you've come across is wood rot, rather than evidence of borers. Borers are generally no big deal in the timber industry. There's plenty of info on the internet that will relieve your concerns in this regard.

Wood rot, on the other hand, is a big deal. Wood rot is a combination of a high moisture content and fungus attacking the timber. Wherever water can leak into the van over a "long" period of time, you will have the conditions likely to end up with wood rot. So, around window openings; or wherever the J-mould seal has broken; etc, are some of the likely places where wood rot can occur. Timber badly affected with wood rot will crumble in your hands, whereas timber affected by borers can still be structurally sound.

This photo of the back window opening of my van shows the timber frame affected by wood rot (bottom left photo)...



If this is what you are faced with in your van, the only long term fix is to cut out the affected area and replace it. However, that really depends on how "involved" you want to get with restoring your van. There are other options, but I'll leave them until you come back and give us some more info on what it is that you've actually discovered...

cheers,
Al.

[paddles]

[paddles]

Paddles, let me clarify something first...is it you that is stripping because you found borers, or did you find borers after stripping something off the van?? If it is you, then you can put your clothes back on NOW!...your hubby is trying to focus on the frame!!





Not while the kids are up!

[Franklin1]

Okay, wood rot it is. Now it becomes crucial to decide how complex you want the restoration to be. Ask yourself do you really have the money, the time, the tools, and the know-how to tackle a complete repair job, or would you prefer to get away with something simpler?

Let's look at the simple fix first...
Take a small flat-head screwdriver and see how far you can pierce the screwdriver into the timber wood rot. Less piercing is better, but piercing right through is not good news.
Next step is to look at where the screws have been removed to get the J-mould or cladding off and determine whether the screws needed to be unscrewed or did they just pull out of the timber easily because they weren't really holding on to sound timber. If they needed unscrewing...good; if they pulled out without unscrewing...not good.
Assuming you have scored two "goods" so far (screwdriver not pierced right through, and screws needed unscrewing), then you can get away with cleaning up the cladding and J-mould in the affected areas and renewing the sealant under the mouldings. Rescrew everything back into position and walk away quickly without looking back ;D Your van hasn't disintegrated yet after 40 years and it's not about to disintegrate in any great hurry.

A word here about wood rot. Wood rot occurs when the moisture content of the timber is above 20%. The usual timber that you buy at your local hardware has a moisture content of around 15%. Therefore if you maintain the moisture content below 20%, wood rot cannot occur. This is achieved by stopping additional moisture from getting to the timber...with paint, sealants, cladding, or any other protective coating that remains sound for the life of the timber.

So where does all this leave you? First thing is to not despair about your van. It is not going to fall down around your ears in any hurry. My van has wood rot in the framework at all four bottom corners, and has been towed 1000kms since I bought it without falling apart.

In summary, the main aim for you is to get the whole van watertight. Wherever you've found the wood rot, if you are able to re-fix the cladding and mouldings after renewing the sealant, the rest of the van will look after itself.

(...and if you thought that long-winded answer was the "simple fix", imagine how long the complex fix would be... ;D ;D )

Other members may have further ideas for you as well.

cheers,
Al.

[Roehm3108]

Hi Guys
Welcomde to the wonderful world of van restoration - ain't it fun!!
If your van has been sitting in the proverbial paddock for the past 14 years, you have to expect that the structure will probably have some rot in it. A bit hard to tell from the pics just bad the damage really is. If it is minor (as defined by Franklin1) then simply do as he suggests - fix what you can and can what you can't! ;D ;D
But you may also find spots where the framing is such that you have nothing to screw into, in which case you will have to at least do some cut and pasting! Meranti is the timber mostly used for framing today. If you go for pine, I would suggest using treated pine, as it will last much longer. Watch out for knotted pine too, as it can weaken the structure too.
If the rot isn't so bad that you need to cut and paste, you may be able to simply fill. In the past I have used a fibreglass mix that has shredded matting mixed with it, some even has steel shavings with it too. Don't just use car bog which is only good for shallow fills. My Propert was filled with that car bog and it shook out coming home from Melbourne to Bris.
Another thing when filling, make sure that every last bit of that rot is out of the timber. I noticed with my Propert that this stuff grows, even after bogging. The van was always stored in a garage, but because it lived in the Dandenongs outside Melb, there was always moisture in the air and in the enclosed garage, and when I had removed the loose bog, I could see where the rot had continued to grow under the bog.
My advice is to do it properly the first time, and you will save time, money and effort in the long run.
Good luck - remember that probably 90% of the people on this site went through the same heartache, and look at the great results they ended up with.
Rather interesting that on the trip to Mt Gambier, it was the cars that broke down, and not the vans!!!!!
Cheers
Ray

[paddles]

demolision work continues, current plan includes a total rebuild of the affected areas, do it right, do it once sort of thing. thinking of changing the layout a bit now.

But this all brings to mind a passage I once read in a book,

This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the ninehundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good. Will you tell me this is a fake?


So I guess, all in all, this will still be the caravan of my grandparents, my childrens great grandparents etc, and hopefully in the fullness of time it will be passed on to my children...

Probably not, but I can dream can't I?

[paddles]

Ok, now hubby is talking about replacing the outside cladding, since he has it off anyway... at what point does this van stop being a hillandale, and become a self build?


Anybody know how much it's likely to cost to replace the aluminium?

[Franklin1]

Ah yes, I well remember the fable of Grandfather's Axe, and have brought it to mind many times in my life when people describe their wares as being "in original condition!"

Why do you need to replace the cladding? If hubby has been careful in removing it, it should be able to be re-used, providing you are not changing the outside dimensions of the van. I would think buying new stuff would cost you a fortune, but other members may have first-hand knowledge. You probably won't be able to get the same "profile" of cladding as what you have now.

When does the van stop being a Hilandale? When you stop thinking of it as a Hilandale! The rest of us wouldn't notice the difference unless you told us
And the same goes for whether it will "still be your grandparents' van". While ever you think of it as your grandparents' van, so it will be...

Happy days ahead of you!!

cheers,
Al.

[paddles]

hubbys theory with the cladding is, that over the years many holes have been put into the original cladding for various fixtures, also, it needs repainting (Every time you brush up against it, you come away with white all over everything.) My theory is to just clean and repaint the cladding, hubby is going with the do it right the first time scenario. we shall see what it will cost. (That will be the deciding factor.) meanwhile work continues, it's looking to be in better condition, the rot is contained to the edge of the framework, meaning that we will be able to replace the damaged bits, as opposed to replacing the whole framework. all the laminate inside will end up being replaced.



To my mind, it will always be my Nana's van. Watching my children play in and around it just reinforces that thought, it brings back happy memories of doing much the same when I was thier age.

[harriet]

harriet here wood

[Roehm3108]

Interesting reading, Paddles!

If hubby has taken the aluminium off carefully, it should ba salvagable, and you can get some "Knead-it" for those foreign screw holes. The powdery film that's on at the moment can also be sanded with a very fine grit wet and dry and sealed, so that it won't be a problem in the future. Personally, I would only replace the cladding if it was badly dinted. I think you should be able to get the cladding for your van OK. The hardest one to find seems to be the one with the pressed diamond pattern finished (which is what I am looking for). Have a look at the Camec website - they seem to be the Bunnings of caravanning gear.

What's important in all this (apart from restoring grandpa's van) is that you are having fun!!! ;D ;D
Good luck

ray

[frankidownunder]

Hi Paddles,
My Franklin cladding was in poor condition paint wise but I found a good wash with sugar soap then a polish with ordinary No 1 car polish brought it up a treat, the surplus holes others had drilled in the cladding were filled with Selleys professional adhesive sealant (white) and scratches etc touched up with white caravan spray pack. (available from Camec, Coast to Coast or Caravans Plus. looks good now.
Anyway good luck and have fun, thats what restoration is all about.

Denis.

[paddles]

he claims, I haven't seen it, that there are some tears in the cladding and it all needs replacing.

[firefighter]

paddles

I can see where your hubby is coming from....if you are going to restore grandpa,s van do it properly in the first place
no good getting the van back on the road standing back & looking at it and thinking I should have done other work on the
van....... the out side of the van is what other people see first
and think thats a nice van..... or its a you know what
" let him go get of his back "
just keep the photos coming as you hubbys working on the van
I am sure the grandparents will be rapt in what ever work he does on the van
f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[9kp4wzb]

Apr 21, 2008 21:41:25 GMT 10 frankidownunder said:

Hi Paddles,
My Franklin cladding was in poor condition paint wise but I found a good wash with sugar soap then a polish with ordinary No 1 car polish brought it up a treat, the surplus holes others had drilled in the cladding were filled with Selleys professional adhesive sealant (white) and scratches etc touched up with white caravan spray pack. (available from Camec, Coast to Coast or Caravans Plus. looks good now.
Anyway good luck and have fun, thats what restoration is all about.

Denis.