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Post by beetlesbailey on Nov 26, 2013 14:56:13 GMT 10
Hi All, I am hoping that someone can identify my latest aquisition.
Woowoo posted some pics on Nov. 9th, on page 2 under the subject heading 'IDENTIFY MY VAN' but although 94 members have looked at it there have been no replies. I hope that doesn't that mean no one has any idea about it. any way I thought I would add this post to 'refresh' it.
The van has a wooden frame, and some unusual features such as a table to set up outside that fits in a recess in the wall of the robe to your right when entering the van. (such a nifty idea)
It also has a 2 way drawer between the rear beds so that both people can slide it to their side to access personal gear. ( or to slam it into the other's head to wake them up!)
It has 2 hatches with the most secure and positive catches I have ever seen in a van.
I has 14" early Holden wheels (14's may have been an update though). It has a 2 and one 8th inch coupling. and wind down stays at the rear that leave the 'foot' at the outer end of the van as opposed to facing the front. On the front are 2 concertina type wind down stays that act in a vertical motion.
I hope to have this van restored soon. It needed 5 new panes of glass and 2 new 90 degree corner ones of poly carbonate as well as new rubbers all round. I have fitted new wheels and tyres and a 2" coupling is waiting to be fitted. It doesnt leak in wild weather but a little paint inside will freshen it up. If I could post photos I would but you can see the pics on Woowoo's post on page 2. Any help in I.D. or year be appreciated. Regards Beetles
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 26, 2013 16:54:25 GMT 10
Hi Beetles, I've copied Woowoo's post about your van below, just to make it easier for people to see what the van looks like: Here are those shots of my project van. Can you post them on the forum please and ask if anyone can identify it. Graham This van belongs to Beatles Bailey and he needs help to identify it. if you can help, Please let him know. Wendy I suspect that you may not have received any replies to Woowoo's post, not because we are disinterested, but because - like me - a lot of us have looked at the van and not been able to come up with any ideas about its origins. One of the interesting features are the shield shaped corner windows at the front (when looked at from the side), which are quite unusual. But I am a bit flummoxed by the split front window, which from memory weren't introduced to the very late 60's, while the van itself looks more like early 60's. Is the front window a later addition do you think? Looking at the van I am thinking...possibly South Australian...Harris...Schrader...Ambassador (not Viscount Ambassador)...something like that? But that's really just a stab in the dark! Are there any clues on what state the van came from? A rego sticker, number plate, other stuff in the van itself that might give us a clue? Don Ricardo
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Post by cobber on Nov 26, 2013 17:31:33 GMT 10
Don't feel bad Beetles.... we all get ignored on here ..... sometimes I did go to the very excellent "Caravan & topic index" in DHL and clicked on all the brands that were made in SA ( just took a punt that it might be a SA van ) but the only thing that looked even remotely like it was the Harris brand van. I reckon we might have to wait for Hughdeani to come online Cobber.
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Post by shesgotthelook on Nov 26, 2013 21:27:54 GMT 10
Could it possibly be a 'Hillandale' ? At Torquay on the weekend, out the back of the Roadhaven cafe was a van. The owner of it asked us to identify it. A couple of us felt it was a Hillandale & the rego label had H & D on it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 21:38:19 GMT 10
Definitely a Hilandale,but has striping a la Evernew,instead of the standard lightning strike stripes. Also that model was badged as a Skyline and for a short time Nomad,which was only available from a service station in Mt Waverley on Stephensons Rd in the 60s. Cheers Hughdeani
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 26, 2013 22:18:06 GMT 10
Yeah, but what about the mystery van up top, hughdeani?? I couldn't identify it when I first saw the post, but I could see that the aluminium cladding on the sides was the profile used in the early 1960s (starting around 1962) and was still used by some manufacturers for a while after the newer profile cladding became available in late 1963. Mostly you'll see the earlier cladding on vans that are composite aluminium and bondwood types (see the Valiants and Vacation brands in the DHL section for examples) [and by the way DonR, I've sent you a PM about the Vacation thread]. The double hopper windows in the front were being used on the new Viscount Ambassador model that was launched in late 1964, but could have been used by other manufacturers earlier than that. The sloping side windows were also used on Viscounts and Valiants in 1963, but again could have been used earlier by others. Certainly the sloping wrap-around windows at the front is a distinguishing feature of this van, but I can't recall seeing that shape on other vans on the forum. To me, the evidence points towards the van being from the time period of around 1963, but as far as the brand goes...err cheers, Al.
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Post by beetlesbailey on Nov 27, 2013 8:30:52 GMT 10
Well thanks to you all. This is the sort of help I thought I would get from this great forum and now I realize why none was forthcoming till now. It seems like i have an oddball. mmm perhaps I'll call it that. An oddball. Don And Cobber are probably right about it being an S.A. van as that's where I live and the van came from a man who's grand father bought it and used it in his back yard for 20 years. What use he put it to I don't know but his Grandson used it for storage for a few years till he built a shed. It still has an S.A. number plate but no sticker. It had a reverse cycle A/C in the O/S front window and so I have to make another fly screen and seal and paint the window sill that has slight water damage. The rest of the interior was dry all along luckily. I will investigate further to see if it was clad over ply but I think I would have noticed it when I had the windows out. I tend to agree with the 60's dating but it may go to late 60's due to the windows and standard Hella tail lights. Though they could have covered up signs of previous ones. For what it's worth the ally profile along the centre (window height) is different to the rest. By that I mean tbe diamond type pattern not the ribs. I will try to email one of you some detailed shots if that's ok. The only time I could work the photo bucket thing was under instruction from an expert. Cheers and thanks to you all for your help and suggestions. Beetles
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 27, 2013 9:05:15 GMT 10
G'day Beetles, The flat cladding along the window line is fairly common in the aluminium vans from the early 1960s. It allowed the window frames to sit flat on the sides of the van, and meant they didn't have to muck around very much with trying to seal the frame to the cladding.
If you look at the Hilandale pictures above, you'll see how the windows are fitted onto the ribbed cladding (this was the cladding profile launched in late 1963). The window frame sits on the peaks of the ribs, and you then have to fill in the valleys in the profile with a sealant or rubber or something. It's more hassle than fitting to flat aluminium.
I doubt very much whether the mystery van is much later than 1963. I suspect the Hella tail lights have been fitted later to the van. Originally, I'd guess there was just the centre tail/brake light and probably reflectors on either side. I'd be looking for evidence of the wiring for the Hella lights being retrofitted into the wall cavity somehow.
cheers, Al.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 27, 2013 10:49:26 GMT 10
Hi Beetlesbailey, Hughdeani and Franklin1 (not to mention Cobber and SGTL), Well Beetles, at least bumping Woowoo's post has got you some responses now! Stirred up a bit of a hornets nest, you have! ;D ;D ;D Given that the van was registered and located in SA, I think that is a strong indicator about its origins (with all due respect to Hughdeani). I agree with Franklin1 re the van being early 60's - that's when the broad ribbed cladding was used. After that the finer ribbed cladding shown in SGTL's pic came into vogue. Hughdeani, I know from experience that challenging your ID of a van is a perilous pursuit, however I have a bit of a query about the Hilandale identification because of: - What I will call the 'humpback' roofline, by which I mean where the highest part of the roofline is towards the front of the van, then slopes down towards the back, as opposed to the more common style where the highest part of the roof is in the centre of the van. I think this is what Franklin1 may have been referring to when he said "what about the mystery van up top"?
- The smooth shape of the rear without any bulkhead or bulge over the rear windows.
These two features to me are very reminiscent of Harris vans and the South Australian Ambassadors (not Viscount), but I don't recall seeing any Hilandales with those features. Having said that, you probably have a brochure in your collection that confirms your ID? And I have to concede that you know your 60's vans and are right 99/100. Franklin1, thanks for correcting my comment about double hopper windows being around in the early 60's. I now realise that I have looked at lots of pics of early 60's vans with double hoppers - even taken pics of some vans myself - but hadn't made the connection between the window style and the years. Always something to learn, eh? Don Ricardo
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 27, 2013 13:09:43 GMT 10
Maybe I misunderstood, but I took it that hughdeani was confirming that sgtl's photos were of a Hilandale, not that the mystery van was a Hilandale. Hence my comment, "Yeah, but what about..." Fess up, hughdeani...what's the mystery van??
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 27, 2013 14:09:21 GMT 10
Maybe I misunderstood, but I took it that hughdeani was confirming that sgtl's photos were of a Hilandale, not that the mystery van was a Hilandale. Hence my comment, "Yeah, but what about..." Fess up, hughdeani...what's the mystery van?? Hi Franklin1, I've just re-read Hughdeani's post, and I think it was I who misunderstood. I think you're right - he was referring to SGTL's photo. Apologies Hughdeani... :- So, we're still on the trail re Beetlesbailey's van?? Don Ricardo
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 17:37:40 GMT 10
Evening all, I was referring to the van with the Evernew stickers,not the top one of beetles! Sorry for any confusion! Al,the top van I can only offer that it looks a bit South Australian,but have no idea on a brand. Sorry Hughdeani
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Post by beetlesbailey on Jan 9, 2014 11:32:11 GMT 10
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL, I FOUND SOME CLUES (MAYBE) THE ALLY WINDOWS ARE BY L.O.BAKER OF BRISBANE. THE SINK IS CARA-REST (A FRIEND STILL OPERATES THIS CARAVAN REPAIR BUSINESS IN ADELAIDE) HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY OF THAT OLD STUFF LEFT THOUGH. I HAVE PULLED THE HATCHES APART AND FOUND A WELL CONSTRUCTED FRAME WITH 3/16" PLY ON BOTH SIDES OF IT AND COVERED WITH FLAT ALLY ON OUTSIDE. THE FRAME HAS STYROFOAM INSULATION BETWEEN THE TIMBERS AND SANDWICHED BETWEEN THE 2 SHEETS OF PLY. THEY ARE VERY STRONG AND FAIRLY HEAVY. I ROTARY WIRE BRUSHED THE A FRAME TRYING TO LOCATE A NUMBER BUT TO NO AVAIL. (SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT VISCOUNTS HAD THE NUMBER INSIDE THE A FRAME.) I'M NEARLY READY TO PAINT THE INSIDE. JUST WANT TO GET THE HATCHES REPAIRED FIRST. BEETLES
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Post by beetlesbailey on Jan 27, 2014 15:51:55 GMT 10
Painting now done and while stripping 2nd hatch I found the up side of the interior ply on it has the following written in crayon. 'CADELL PRIMARY SCHOOL', like the old way delivery 'dockets' were done. Now, Cadell is a small town in S.A. that now is more likely to be known for it's jail. Was this ply pinched from the school, did the van builder work there, or was this ply from an earlier hatch repair by someone in the public works dept. who had access to education dept ply? The MYSTERY continues. I have decided to name her 'MISS TERRY' for all her unknowns. I am polishing handles and knobs,cleaning seats and mattresses, fitted screens and curtain track this week as well as buying curtain material and flooring. She's starting to look good. Beetles
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jan 27, 2014 22:34:07 GMT 10
Hi Beetles,
That's another intriguing clue you've discovered. At least it seems to provide a bit more confirmation that your van is South Australian built.
I keep looking at it and trying to see features that might help us to identify it. If it isn't home built - and it looks too neatly put together for that to me - I'm stil thinking it might have been built by Schrader, who built vans for Harris and Sportline.
Maybe you'll find more clues and it will all fall into place at some point? Here's hoping, but in the meantime it is a good looking van with a nice early 60's style to it.
Don Ricardo
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