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Post by Don Ricardo on Oct 27, 2008 19:57:06 GMT 10
From Keith Winser's "Plans for Australian Caravans" 9th edition 1963 p.152AGE OF CARAVANS"There are six ways to guess the age of a caravan, the only reliable one being to check the chassis number with the maker. Other clues are, of course, in knowing the trend of styling. Many vans were made of masonite prior to 1949. Larger windows, with wooden frames, came in about that time. The Bosse rounded corner window became popular from 1953 to 1957 when the Alfab andodised aluminium windows came in..."  (Source: Keith Winser, Australian Caravan & Touring Manual for 1956, 170)Contemporary advertisement for aluminium windows sold by Flynn Caravan Spares:  (Source: Keith Winser, Australian Caravan & Touring Manual for 1956, p 149)For discussion and information on the introduction of aluminium windows see the following thread:vintagecaravans.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=technicalstuffboard&thread=1675&page=1 |
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Post by Franklin1 on Dec 2, 2010 17:44:56 GMT 10
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 23, 2014 20:14:44 GMT 10
From Keith Winser's "Plans for Australian Caravans" 9th edition 1963 p.152AGE OF CARAVANS"There are six ways to guess the age of a caravan, the only reliable one being to check the chassis number with the maker. Other clues are, of course, in knowing the trend of styling. Many vans were made of masonite prior to 1949. Larger windows, with wooden frames, came in about that time. The Bosse rounded corner window became popular from 1953 to 1957 when the Alfab andodised aluminium windows came in..." Hi all, We have tended to take the above information as an indication that the Bosse & Eunson windows were introduced in 1953, although in fact Winser clearly says that they "became popular" in 1953, not that they were first produced in 1953. However, a recent discussion about the windows on Akeepsake's 1949 Jennison Pathfinder has revealed that they are apparently of a similar construction to the Bosse & Eunson windows with an outer frame with rounded corners made from ply attached to an internal frame with square corners into which the class is inserted, as shown below:    An interesting feature of these windows revealed by the photos and pointed out by Cobber is that the outer frame is made up out of four separate pieces, although we might have previously assumed that it was made from a single piece of ply, or perhaps two. The following photos of Akeepsake's Jennison while it is being restored shows the side and front windows in place:   The photo of the side window in particular indicates that it appears to be very similar if not identical to the Bosse & Eunson window shown in the advertisement quoted at the beginning of this post, including the water channel above the window. This information about the Jennison's windows seems to confirm that the Bosse & Eunson style windows were available well before 1953, and at least as early as 1948, when this particular Jennison Pathfinder model was introduced. Quite possibly the earlier windows were not manufactured by Bosse & Eunson, but were built "in house" by the caravan builders themselves. There is one further observation that can be made in relation to the Bosse & Eunson type of window, and that is that the way the windows were installed and sealed possibly changed over time. As can be seen from the photos of the Jennison van, the windows were installed in the wall so that the external frame of the actual window fitted into the window opening and ls flush with the wall cladding. Presumably the window is sealed with a rubber seal between the external frame and the window jamb set into the wall. In contrast, it was not uncommon in the mid-50's for the windows to be installed in the caravan walls so that only the internal frame of the window fitted into the window opening. In this case, the external frame was bigger than the window opening and sat proud of the wall cladding. Presumably in this instance the window sealed with a rubber seal between the internal frame and the window jamb. I have seen quite a few examples caravans showing this second method of window installation, but the only reasonable photo I can find off the top of my head showing the second method is this photo of a mid to late 50's Alexander, which clearly shows the external frame of the side windows sitting proud of the cladding:  I trust the above explanation of the two different methods of installation is understandable. I don't know the technical language needed to explain it better. Maybe somebody else can come up with a better photo than the pic of the Alexander to illustrate the second method of installation? Don Ricardo |
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Post by akeepsake on Nov 23, 2014 21:15:03 GMT 10
Don thanks for the post. I will post some detailed pics of the Alexander soon as I pick her up Saturday week  Cheers Andrew |
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Post by seeshell on Nov 24, 2014 6:56:34 GMT 10
Hi All Further to Don's excellent research - our windows in the Blue Flyer are much the same, which we discovered when pulling them apart to paint. Here's one that was stripped back and you can see the frame, and then the radius on the corners:  Some were singles, and some double paned. Per the description, the window frames sit on the outside ply of the van. We just assumed they were home made, but perhaps they were kit windows. Cheers Carley |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 24, 2014 19:42:47 GMT 10
Don thanks for the post. I will post some detailed pics of the Alexander soon as I pick her up Saturday week Cheers Andrew Ha! Akeepsake! I posted the photos of your Jennison and the Alexander totally forgetting that you had also acquired the latter!  Well that's handy! Once you get the Alexander home you'll be able to take some photos of the windows and compare them to the Jennison's for us. A nice little research project right in your own shed!  Thanks for the measurements for the reflectors. Allowing for my somewhat haphazard measurements (close one eye, line up the markings on the ruler with the edge of the reflector with the other eye), I'd say the reflectors on your van are probably identical to the ones that were on the Jennison. Don Ricardo |
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Post by cobber on Nov 25, 2014 7:49:11 GMT 10
G'day Don R & Andrew, It will be interesting see if the windows on each caravan appear to have been made by the same firm and..... it would be interesting to compare some of the other vans from the '50s with similar windows..... 'Carefree' .... Adventurer Etc. Etc. to determine if they were following the trend or.... setting it  And as has been noted above by Don R. there are a few examples of vans from the '40s with rounded internal corners. Personally  .... I doubt that the advent of timber windows with rounded internal corners has much to do with Bosse & Eunston, apart from the fact they recognised that style of window suited the rounded shape of caravans of the 1950s period, and decided to make them available off the shelf to 'kit builders'.... I can't imagine established caravan builders buying readymade timber windows, although they obviously did that when aluminium windows hit the market. Bit of a pity Bosse & Eunston didn't invent timber windows with rounded OUTSIDE corners.. might have saved a few scarred foreheads  It has been hard to find any other mention of Bosse & Eunston apart from the following post (fifth one down) in this UK forum[/url]. In this post I think he is referring to the box shown in the first post ?? I have a couple Warren & Brown chucks, but the box this came in is from
Bosse & Eunson, General Woodworkers, Cr Hampstead Rd & Richards Rd, Maidstone
I was ALMOST going to say that that is in KENT, theI checked...it is in Melb's West Suburbs. That explains why the ply was some tropical crap, not at all what I expected from an English artisan.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gordon DC3TD or Peter humpty2 had a few Bosse & Eunston boxes in their sheds Cobber. [/a] |
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Post by King Fisher on Jan 5, 2015 14:48:39 GMT 10
Our windows on Bessie in Fisher's Resto were the same. Basically the ply board faceplate contained the shape with the rounded corners giving the illusion that the glass had rounded corners. There are 4 pieces of 12x50mm wood atatched to the inside of the ply faceplate. The ply faceplate outer overhangs the window frame so that the ply faceplate sits flat on the side of the van against the outside cladding. The window is constructed similar to the sketch, (side view and not to scale). The 12x50s create a lip for the glass to sit into. There is then a small square wooden bead which is tacked in with small tacking nails on the top of the glass to hold it in place.  We made up new replacement windows, there were not too hard to construct, I always thought however that they were home built so interesting to see that they possibly could have been purchased already made??? The outer ply board shaped to give the illusion of round glass corners  You can see the window ply with the four pieces attached behind to crate a step for a rectangular piece of glass to sit in.  We believe Bessie to be a 1959 home built van so hope this helps in providing dating when this style of windows were used. |
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Post by King Fisher on Jan 5, 2015 14:53:27 GMT 10
G'day Don R & Andrew, ... Bit of a pity Bosse & Eunston didn't invent timber windows with rounded OUTSIDE corners.. might have saved a few scarred foreheads ... No truer words said, I can say that I know this one from experience Ouch! |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jan 5, 2015 16:57:05 GMT 10
Hi Kingfisher, Thanks for posting the detailed information and photos of the construction of the windows on your van. It is really helpful to see how it was done. Interestingly the windows on the fixed front windows on Brenten's Pilgrim caravan were constructed in the much same way - rectangular pieces of glass set behind rounded frames and kept in place with straight pieces of timber behind. However, earlier today I had a look at Cruz's Carapark kit van. The glass in the windows for that van has been cut with rounded corners to fit into frames which are rounded both front and back. I'll post some pics when I get a chance. Don Ricardo |
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Post by cobber on Jan 5, 2015 18:47:06 GMT 10
G'day kingfisher & Don R. It is not as though somebody hadn't thought it a good idea before the official arrival of aluminium windows, which I think all have rounded external corners  The 1948 war surplus van I am restoring (at a leisurely pace) has side windows made with a flat piece of aluminium in leu of the flat ply used in the example you have shown us. Both the internal and external corners are rounded, had they not been she would have been a lethal weapon aye? The rectangle shaped glass is held in place by four pieces of wood that are routed, so that by removing the bottom piece new glass can be slid in no worries    Cobber. |
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Post by akeepsake on Jan 5, 2015 21:29:29 GMT 10
Interesting thread guys ! Btw Mr Ricardo the windows in the Alexander are similar to the Jennison except for two small variations 1 they aren't flush fit but rather the ply outer sits over the window opening. 2 the window glass is held in place with a small quad where as the Jenno only has putty.
Cheers
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.... I doubt that the advent of timber windows with rounded internal corners has much to do with Bosse & Eunston, apart from the fact they recognised that style of window suited the rounded shape of caravans of the 1950s period, and decided to make them available off the shelf to 'kit builders'.... I can't imagine established caravan builders buying readymade timber windows, although they obviously did that when aluminium windows hit the market.
