|
|
Post by Geoff & Jude on May 13, 2007 22:40:34 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by ukbrian on May 15, 2007 6:48:11 GMT 10
Geoff'n'Jude You have prompted me to do something I have been meaning to do for some time now - to show a few examples of the top English caravans from the 60's, as they are so totally different from any Oz vv's. First of all the Cheltenham range ( as the one on ebay). These have a common front and rear fibreglass panel, with a one piece fibreglass roof that varies in length for the 2, 3, and 4 berth versions. The side walls are aluminium over a wooden frame, with faced plywood for the interiors.   The interiors of these and almost every other caravan made in this period have real wood or wood finish interiors. The only time we see the pastel colours yours seem to have is when someone paints the interior to brighten it up, but definitely not from the factory.   Next comes the Rolls Royce of English caravans - the Carlight. Again these use the same front and rear mouldings with different lengths in between. They are still in business and you can take your old van back to them and they will totally rebuild it for between AUSD 25000 - 60000. Yes - I kid you not. This is a 12ft two berth Carlight Casaletta.  This is the big'un - a 17ft four berth.  To make these brighter inside they use a very pale ash timber for all the cupboards and furniture.   Another make using the same construction principle is the Royale, here shown as a two berth and a four berth. This make is unusual in having doors on both sides. The one on the right opens into the toilet cubicle so it could be said to have an outside dunnie (I think that is what you call them!!)   The interior of a Royale showing a darker heavily grained timber finish  Brian from the UK |
|
|
|
Post by cobber on May 15, 2007 8:34:52 GMT 10
G ‘n J, There is no doubt about it, the poms had class in the design of their caravans in the early days. Some of our first attempts at building vans were modelled on English vans rather than American vans I reckon, then we took off in our own direction resulting in smaller vans than the yanks and more austere ones than the English. The polished timber interior finish may have been judged not very practical for our climate.. (hot). Brian, Thanks for those great photos of the way it was back then. Do you have any quality photos of the “Showman” caravans that the Eccles company built back in the 30’s, they look like they were the ant’s pants. I have a black and white photo I will post in this thread if you don’t have a colour one. Do Carlight still manufacture caravans or are they only doing repair and restoration ? We mustn’t forget that Winchester of lancashirelad’s back at vintagecaravans.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=photo&action=display&thread=1177253653. that was a nice one to pick up off eBay. And Brian, did you notice the 1960’s ? Safari that sold on eBay recently for £27.40 ($65.24) item # 280106680 ..... a bit of work required but gee !  I though you would have left for the ECCR by now, have a great run and let us know upon your return what it was like. Cobber. |
|
|
|
Post by ukbrian on May 15, 2007 16:39:58 GMT 10
Cobber I have a couple of pics of showmans vans, but I haven't identified the make:   As you say they are a bit special. Carlight went into liquidation a few years ago but then were resurrected first as a restoration company but I believe that they have now restarted manufacture of moderns. The Safari that went for £27.00 was a bit rough, hand painted over a lot of signwriting and with evidence of a lot of damp in the corners. I have been given two Safaris that were in a similar condition! Unfortunately I am not going to the ECCR after all - an exceptional opportunity for promotion has come up at work and I have to be there on the Monday after the event, so I am tranferring my ferry booking until the summer when the Volvo Club is doing a visit to the factory and Iwill make that my European trip this year. Brian - stuck in the UK for the time being! |
|
|
|
Post by Don Ricardo on May 15, 2007 23:07:16 GMT 10
Brian, Thanks for posting the photos of the UK vans. It is always fascinating to see pictures of some very well maintained/restored UK vans and to consider the different approaches to construction and materials used in the UK compared to Australia. The external walls look to be made of fibreglass - is that correct? The use of timber finishes inside is also really interesting. Cobber comments that polished timber finishes may not have been considered practical for the Australian climate, but I am trying to work out why a timber finish would be seen as more or less practical. I wonder if it just reflects the different community aesthetics at the time (ie what was generally viewed by the community as attractive)? Australian vans used timber for internal walls and fittings up to, and into the 1960's (??) but I suspect didn't use such high quality timber/veneer as in UK vans. (Why would they if the surface was to be painted?) This comment is illustrated by Jim Maskell's Don which has had the internal timber work stripped and varnished: www.vintagecaravans.com/don_caravan.htmThe difference between the quality and look of the timber in the Don is quite stark when compared to the timber in Brian's photos. I am assuming that internal timber in Australian vans eventually gave way to laminate, vinyl and plastic in an attempt to reduce weight. Possibly also to speed up production. Was there a similar trend in the UK Brian? All this reminds me of a story a friend told me a number of years ago (late 80's?). He was living in a caravan park at the time, and one day noticed a young couple driving into the park. It turned out that it was the first day of their honeymoon and the van was brand spanking new. When they opened the door of the van they were faced with devastation - the front internal walls, and many of the overhead cupboards were all to be found in a jumbled mess at the back of the van. The internal walls were laminate glued to the frame. The vibrations from the day's travel had been sufficient to loosen the walls and fittings from the frame and cause the resultant mess. I understand that the bride was distraught, and who wouldn't be? Would never happen to one of our V V's though - Australia or UK......would it  Thanks again for posting the photos Brian. Loved the photos of the showman vans as well. They'd be a hit wherever they travel, I'm certain. Don Ricardo |
|
|
|
Post by cobber on May 16, 2007 16:07:33 GMT 10
Brian, Makes me sad  to hear that work is responsible for you missing out on your trip to the Netherlands, yet another good reason to retire. I was looking forward to seeing some photos from that rally. Don, My comment regarding the reluctance to use timber varnishes in Australian vans during the 50’s, and earlier, may have been a little un-informed I was thinking that the quality of the lacquers available at that time may not have been able to stand the heat they would have to endure during our summer without cracking and crazing..... or maybe I was just trying to find an excuse for our colonial tastes when it comes to the finer things in life  Having said that I should mention that the stained timber in ol’36 is still in good condition although I am convinced this van has not had a hard life. The walls and some of the fittings are merely plywood that has been stained, but the cupboard & wardrobe doors are solid wood and have a much better finish. The photos don’t really do it justice. vintagecaravans.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=photo&action=display&thread=1149659216&page=4And this is a photo of the inside of an Eccles 22 ft. “Showman” caravan built in 1933, I wish it was in colour. Apparently "Eccles exported vans the world over" so we should keep our eyes open... you never know   Cobber. |
|
|
|
Post by Roehm3108 on May 16, 2007 17:32:17 GMT 10
Cobber - thanks for posting your pic - what a beauty - could almost see it being used as a set for a Jane Austin film. UKBrian, thanks too for your pics - looks like fibreglass was quite popular in th early sixties already - suppose that's because of the lack of storage facilities and the weather you have over there. Seeing your english vans also makes me wonder whether we ever really had the quality of craftsmen here in OZ who could/would bother to build in the quality of those vans (you only sent us convicts!! ). At times I can see shipwright experiences coming through too - especially with the bowed wall vans! Another point that comes into play is also that the northern hemisphere has a greater variety of timbers, that in themselves give that rich texture and warmth so often seen. Thanks for sharing those pics - it shows we are truly becoming an international site! Ray |
|
|
|
Post by ukbrian on May 16, 2007 18:35:56 GMT 10
To reply to several of you in one posting: Don The side walls are aluminium over a wooden frame the Cheltenham has a very slight bow to the sides, just done by using shaped vertical pieces, makes them an absolute b****r to restore if damp gets in. Fibreglass was only used for the front and rear and roofs as it eliminates all sealant problems between aluminium panels. Unfortunately the sealing of the windows into the fibreglass was not so effective and so water ingress is still a problem. Regarding the interior finishes - these three makes and the Safari of the type I have, had real wood for the door facings, cheaper caravans of the period had a very lightweight laminate/polystyrene/plywood sandwich but still retained an imitation wood finish on the outside. This construction is still used on modern caravans in the UK. The painted pastel colours seen inside most of the Oz vans on this site were just not seen on UK vans. Cobber The opportunity at work could mean a 50% salary increase that will really help my pension when I finally reach retirement age in about 10 years! I think you are right about the heat problem cracking wood finished interiors - not a major problem in the UK as we have already discussed! The unusual thing is that the Oz style of interior cupboards is identical to kitchen units in our houses during the 50's and 60's with the pastel painted doors sitting proud of the frames and the external hinges screwed to the fronts. So we had a more luxurious appearance in our caravans than in our homes! Ray Fibreglass was an experiment to try to reduce the external sealing problems, and whilst it has carried on into todays modern caravans for the front and rear, the roof has gone back to aluminium, probably due to the problem of the sheer weight of a fibreglass roof and of moulding such a large piece in one. Lots of different timbers have been tried in the UK over the years. From cheap pine in the lower priced vans to various hardwoods in the better vans. The Carlight and Safari used "Obeche" that was the lightest hardwood available at the time but is almost unobtainable now so restorations tend to use ash where weight is a critical factor or ramin or mahogany where it is not so important. There are some pictures of the construction methods in one of my albums at rides.webshots.com/album/551378606QGSmmuThere must have been some chippies amongst the convicts we sent you! I think the difference in climates was the major factor in the totally different materials and construction methods used in our two countries. Brian |
|
|
|
Post by will and lyn on May 16, 2007 20:53:53 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by ukbrian on May 17, 2007 4:06:25 GMT 10
(Spoken in an upper class British accent)
I say Mr Bayley - you are clearly labouring under a delusion concerning the Eccles Showmans van.
It must weigh at least 4 tons and so even if Mr Reddo Esq inserts one of those vulgar American V8 engines in to his Embassy transport I doubt if it would even get the Eccles rolling on a level carriageway.
The vehicle required to tow one of these outstanding caravans is either a steam powered traction engine - plenty of low rev torque, but a top speed of about 8 miles per hour or the tractor unit from one of those articulated lorry things.
Sorry to dash your dreams old chap, but I feel it is my duty to keep you Colonial chappies in the picture regarding items from the great old British Heritage.
Toodle Pip
The Honourable Brian Farquarharson-Smythe
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2007 7:26:17 GMT 10
Oh dash and dratt.. frightfully sorry to hear that There goes my plans for the Hillman Imp. ;D Oh i say Brian do you think the powers that be in the UK ( commonly known as "the fat controllers"  ) would permit me to take the tyres of the rims and tow the Eccles showman on the London subway system with my steam powered Albion  . Thomas T Engine |
|
|
|
Post by will and lyn on May 17, 2007 20:21:07 GMT 10
 Answering UK Brian in an aussie accent JeeeeeZ!! Brian I reckon if I ring me uncle wally who drives the 5 mile long iron ore train at Hammersley in the north west of Western austraylia he might just let hitch that 22ft long eccles to the end of the iron ore carriages we could probably work out a two way split we could play two up and sell ice cold Tooheys extra dry to the punters wadda ya reckon about that Brian fair deal Mate!!!! good onya mate your a bewdy Brian see ya at the dance !!! Will ;D  
|
|
|
|
Post by ukbrian on May 18, 2007 19:10:42 GMT 10
(Still in posh English accent)
Mr T. T. Engine
The term "subway" is a vile Americanism that should never be used by an English gentleman.
Have you ever travelled on our Underground Railway system?
The tunnels would quickly remove the upper three feet of the Eccles van, while this might be a good idea for the warmer weather enjoyed in the Antipodes, it would be most impractical in our wetter climate. Just think of the damage to the interior woodwork and upholstery. There is also the difficulty of getting rid of the smoke and smuts emitting from your steam driven vehicle in the tunnels.
So I am terribly sorry to tell you that we (the powers that be) have to reject your suggestion.
Mr William And-Lyn
My translator struggled with your message, but it seems you are suggesting that you convert the Eccles into some sort of mobile dispenser of alcohol beverages to miners of iron ore.
This would be considered desecration of an important article of English Heritage and totally against the spirit of conservation of Vintage Caravans.
I am certain that our licensing and hygiene regulations would prohibit this unusual activity.
My lawyers are examining your use of the word "bewdy" but are unsure if we should enter into litigation for defamation of character or thank you for some sort of compliment.
Brian Farquarharson-Smythe-Smythe
Minister for the Preservation of Eccles Showman Caravans.
|
|
to hear that work is responsible for you missing out on your trip to the Netherlands, yet another good reason to retire. I was looking forward to seeing some photos from that rally.
) would permit me to take the tyres of the rims and tow the Eccles showman on the London subway system with my steam powered Albion 
