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Post by jdazzle on Dec 19, 2023 12:18:03 GMT 10
Hi Jdazzle, As you've discovered, you can always post some photos using the 'Add Attachment' button. That doesn't require any additional registrations apart from the Forum. The only problem is that the attachment photos can disappear over time (because people delete the photos, or change computers, or whatever), so I do post some of them in a more permanent mode if they are historically important. Anyway, following your request, I have added the other photos of your Coronet from your FB listing to my original post. They do show the way styles and features developed in the first half of the 60's when compared with the photos of Austin125's Coronet. Good luck with the sale, or with keeping it if, as you indicated, you are feeling more positively disposed towards what looks to be a really quite nice and well preserved van. Don Ricardo Thank you so much for adding those photos! I agree about the preservation of photos thing, I should get more organised, as this forum such a fantastic resource. I have just committed some serious money to fitting the brakes and changing the hitch, so it likely has to be a keeper now for a while 😊. Two other questions while I have you on the line as I so value your depth of knowledge, if you have a moment! I was just told by the rego people that the caravan needs to have combined indicator and brakes lights each side, at moment has a single indicator, and a brake light as part of number plate light. The argument was that the indicator lights have been changed, and it would have originally had indicator/brake lights. They have been changed but eons ago, seems hardly relevant. Also, double light not true as I pulled indicator light off and it only has a one active wire. Anyone got any advice on rules, no 1 (NSW)? Other vintage vehicles have the same setup and are registered? I have read various threads here on this subject as well, I think the rego guy is wrong? 2. I managed to scrape the caravan on the rego guys forklight 🙄 when last there. I have damaged the ply. J rails im fixing. I did post about it, see vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/18871/repairing-ply-on-bondwood-sides. What filler would I use? I dont want to use acrylic bog….. Thanks so much 🙏. |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Dec 19, 2023 18:09:37 GMT 10
Hi again Jdazzle, I can provide a few comments about your first question, but will have to leave the second question to someone else. Until very recently, the general rule about caravans built before 1989 was that they only need to meet the requirements for caravans that were in force when the van was built providing that the caravan has not been significantly altered or modified. I say 'until very recently' because there have been some recent changes to the requirements for pre-1989 caravans, and I don't know how extensive those changes are. For example, pre-1989 vans could use their manufacturer's serial number for registration purposes instead of having to have a VIN, however now all caravans have to have a VIN if they are being re-registered apparently. Subject to the above qualification, your Coronet was built in 1964 and you have registration papers for 1969 (which is excellent in terms of the info below). That means - at least according to the previous requirements - that the van only needs to comply with the requirements in existence in 1964 (or 1969). As it happens we have a document here on the Forum - click here - which sets out the requirements for caravans in NSW as they were in April 1969. I know you are in the ACT, but I'd hazard a guess that the ACT requirements in 1969 were not much different from NSW. Further, I'd be even more certain that if your caravan met the 1969 requirements it met them in 1964 or 1965 when it was built. So what do the 1969 NSW rules say about tail lights, etc...? "A red "tail" lamp, visible in darkness for 600 feet, must be affixed at the rear of the trailer in the centre or on the right-hand side and not more than three feet six inches above the ground...
"A brake ("stop") lamp visible at 100 feet either by day or night either in combination with the "tail" light light or separate therefrom is also required...
"Amber flashing turn signals must be fitted to the rear of trailers registered for the first time after 1st June 1963..."Then there are also additional requirements referred to about reflectors and clearance lights as you can see. Your caravan meets all these requirements, and importantly is not significantly modified, and in fact as far as I can see is not modified at all. It will now have brakes, but I don't think that counts as a modification as such. You have proof that your caravan was registered in 1969, so clearly was manufactured by then and arguably earlier. There is evidence that there were some lights on each side of your van where the indicator lights now are. But based on your comment about the wiring there, I reckon you can argue that they were just an earlier pair of indicators, not stop and/or tail lights. There is the issue that your van was originally registered in Victoria though, which complicates matters if your rego friends want to argue that point. Each annual edition of the Winser Australian Caravan Manuals included a summary of the caravan requirements. I've just checked the 1967 edition which states that at that point (early 1967) Victoria required caravans to have only one tail light fitted in either the centre of the van or 'to the right of the rear', as well as 'at least one but not more than two brake lamps affixed at the rear'. However the 1968 edition states that new regulations were introduced in Victoria in May 1967 which required that caravans must have two rear lights, and at least one but not more than two brake lamps, and traffic indicators when the caravan is wider than the towing vehicle. This means that the lights on your van met the requirements in Victoria prior to May 1967, but not after that! I'm not quite sure what you do with that last lot of information about Victoria, but it looks to me like you've got a case if you stick to the 1969 NSW rules. It just depends on how hard you want to push it and are able to argue winsomely with the rego people on the other side of the counter. You probably need to find out what regulations applied in the ACT in 1969. Were they the same as NSW? The other side of the ledger is that it depends on how safe you feel with only one tail/brake light. These days when cars have three brake lights, and sometimes lights that run right across the rear, one brake/tail might be easily missed by drivers expecting a greater level of notification that you are on the road and/or braking. Don Ricardo |
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 19, 2023 20:36:33 GMT 10
Hi again Jdazzle, I can provide a few comments about your first question, but will have to leave the second question to someone else. Until very recently, the general rule about caravans built before 1989 was that they only need to meet the requirements for caravans that were in force when the van was built providing that the caravan has not been significantly altered or modified. I say 'until very recently' because there have been some recent changes to the requirements for pre-1989 caravans, and I don't know how extensive those changes are. For example, pre-1989 vans could use their manufacturer's serial number for registration purposes instead of having to have a VIN, however now all caravans have to have a VIN if they are being re-registered apparently. Subject to the above qualification, your Coronet was built in 1964 and you have registration papers for 1969 (which is excellent in terms of the info below). That means - at least according to the previous requirements - that the van only needs to comply with the requirements in existence in 1964 (or 1969). As it happens we have a document here on the Forum - click here - which sets out the requirements for caravans in NSW as they were in April 1969. I know you are in the ACT, but I'd hazard a guess that the ACT requirements in 1969 were not much different from NSW. Further, I'd be even more certain that if your caravan met the 1969 requirements it met them in 1964 or 1965 when it was built. So what do the 1969 NSW rules say about tail lights, etc...? "A red "tail" lamp, visible in darkness for 600 feet, must be affixed at the rear of the trailer in the centre or on the right-hand side and not more than three feet six inches above the ground...
"A brake ("stop") lamp visible at 100 feet either by day or night either in combination with the "tail" light light or separate therefrom is also required...
"Amber flashing turn signals must be fitted to the rear of trailers registered for the first time after 1st June 1963..."Then there are also additional requirements referred to about reflectors and clearance lights as you can see. Your caravan meets all these requirements, and importantly is not significantly modified, and in fact as far as I can see is not modified at all. It will now have brakes, but I don't think that counts as a modification as such. You have proof that your caravan was registered in 1969, so clearly was manufactured by then and arguably earlier. There is evidence that there were some lights on each side of your van where the indicator lights now are. But based on your comment about the wiring there, I reckon you can argue that they were just an earlier pair of indicators, not stop and/or tail lights. There is the issue that your van was originally registered in Victoria though, which complicates matters if your rego friends want to argue that point. Each annual edition of the Winser Australian Caravan Manuals included a summary of the caravan requirements. I've just checked the 1967 edition which states that at that point (early 1967) Victoria required caravans to have only one tail light fitted in either the centre of the van or 'to the right of the rear', as well as 'at least one but not more than two brake lamps affixed at the rear'. However the 1968 edition states that new regulations were introduced in Victoria in May 1967 which required that caravans must have two rear lights, and at least one but not more than two brake lamps, and traffic indicators when the caravan is wider than the towing vehicle. This means that the lights on your van met the requirements in Victoria prior to May 1967, but not after that! I'm not quite sure what you do with that last lot of information about Victoria, but it looks to me like you've got a case if you stick to the 1969 NSW rules. It just depends on how hard you want to push it and are able to argue winsomely with the rego people on the other side of the counter. You probably need to find out what regulations applied in the ACT in 1969. Were they the same as NSW? The other side of the ledger is that it depends on how safe you feel with only one tail/brake light. These days when cars have three brake lights, and sometimes lights that run right across the rear, one brake/tail might be easily missed by drivers expecting a greater level of notification that you are on the road and/or braking. Don Ricardo I cannot thank you enough for the above. I will be taking a copy of the NSW rules as per 1969 as above to "another" rego person, not the guy doing the brakes as I have tried to argue with him before, got nowhere. Re safety - at a later stage be open to totally embrace that, right now need it registered so my brother can take my "keeper" caravan away, leaving me with the coronet, just over the line caravan. Photo of the keeper next post, though have shared before. Thank you you amazing caravan people, you make my world go around. *Postscript I’ve decided to see if I can persuade rego person who said it needs to be rewired. In a gentle, ultimately “he is the boss” fashion. We will see. Thanks so much again! All this attention for my little coronet. 🙏🏻🙏🏻 .Also I have a rural NSW property (to house my vintage treasures 😊), NSW rego is what I am seeking. |
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 21, 2023 10:14:40 GMT 10
don Ricardo - it failed, ☹️, not on lights but doesnt have a stamped VIN. Sigh. I thought I had that sorted out. Bsck to the drawing board, will research VIN threads later. Not getting registered for my brother this side of Christmas.
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Post by cobber on Dec 21, 2023 12:57:43 GMT 10
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 21, 2023 13:08:30 GMT 10
Omg you total legend. I do have those first 7 numbers as the VIN but can’t find it stamped on van? I also can’t open that link? I did look on VICroads look up rego but have to contact them. They won’t give me any info as I’m not last registered owner.
I will climb under the damn van again and look for number. Though they weren’t all stamped, right?
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Post by cobber on Dec 21, 2023 13:18:00 GMT 10
Jdazzle,
if you can’t find the plate on the van you can buy a blank vin plate on eBuy and get the number etc engraved on it yourself.
I get the impression if you cough up the $26 they will give you the info online.
Cobber.
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 21, 2023 13:56:03 GMT 10
Also do I contact VIC roads to buy the VIN? They won’t give me any info but I think if I write to them with my receipt of sale they might be more cooperative. They was no notice of disposal as caravan not registered at time. Also never managed to extract the last registered papers out of last owners.
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Post by Surf Tragic on Dec 22, 2023 11:00:12 GMT 10
I was told by the person (official) at Vic Roads that if I supply them with a number that is fixed to the van chassis, they are obliged to accept it. That info was given me after I argued at the counter with another official, saying I wanted to make up my own Number, but was forced to take a number THEY suppled me. !! So you know what I will be doing next time for the Family 140 Don don't you ?
Just a tip.
Cheers Surf Tragic
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Post by cobber on Dec 22, 2023 12:14:02 GMT 10
Jdazzle,
I would do as surf tragic has suggested, talk to an official, the best way to do that in NSW is to front up to a NSW GOV SERVICE CENTRE.
Have your number plate and sale receipt and what you know about the vin # with you, if you get the right person I think they will set you on the right path.
Let them know you need the vin # as the blue slip person won’t talk to you without it
you will then need to get a blank plate (off eBuy) fill it out and pop rivet it to your A frame.
Good luck.
Cobber.
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 22, 2023 16:21:05 GMT 10
Hi there @surf Tragic, I check out your Dons 😊. Yes, I think once I have unearthed full VIN I’ll be good to go. I think I’ll do lights as well, as fellow who says they must be changed is the VIN stamper man. And I’m quite fond of him, he has done a great job on three of my caravans in last few years. He not a vintage guy so keeps wanting to install modern lights, I go white at the prospect. Never! Thank you cobber, what a legend with your detective work. I’m yet to take a look at the site. Ps all coronet lovers, mine has no 718 on drawbar. How does that fit with build numbering? Tried to use as VIN but no…. See you all at the Nationals? My first 😊. I was told by the person (official) at Vic Roads that if I supply them with a number that is fixed to the van chassis, they are obliged to accept it. That info was given me after I argued at the counter with another official, saying I wanted to make up my own Number, but was forced to take a number THEY suppled me. !! So you know what I will be doing next time for the Family 140 Don don't you ? Just a tip. Cheers Surf Tragic |
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Post by sportsman 1 on Dec 22, 2023 20:53:09 GMT 10
Unless the system has changed, Vicroads will not accept the original chassis number for re-registration. As I reported back in 2010 :-
In case you missed it on the Hilda's Progress page, I just had Hilda (the Clipper) registered here in Victoria and although the Chassis Number was as clear as a bell having been welded on the underneath of the drawbar the Vicroads OAF ficials decided that they had too many vehicles (of various descriptions) already registered with the chassis number 369.
He showed me a printout of all the other vehicles, there were about 8!
I protested that it was the only Clipper Caravan with that number and besides my van had that number for 20 years before the next newest one on his list.
No go on either front, please stamp this 10 digit monstrosity on your drawbar instead.
I have not removed or defaced the original number as it is underneath and not noticeable unless you know where to look.
Disappointing to say the least but I suppose I cant complain too much, it is registered.
Good luck with yours!
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 23, 2023 15:42:32 GMT 10
@sportsman 1 I’m registering the caravan in NSW, was previously registered in VIC though a while ago. I’ll now read through don Ricardo’s update on caravan regulations. My plan is to extract VIN number from VICRoads, thanks to cobber then have it endorsed by NSW to stamp on to drawbar. |
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 23, 2023 15:45:20 GMT 10
Ps how disappointing Hilda didn’t get to own her own number. What buggers. Surely you come first. Hi Jdazzle, As you've discovered, you can always post some photos using the 'Add Attachment' button. That doesn't require any additional registrations apart from the Forum. The only problem is that the attachment photos can disappear over time (because people delete the photos, or change computers, or whatever), so I do post some of them in a more permanent mode if they are historically important. Anyway, following your request, I have added the other photos of your Coronet from your FB listing to my original post. They do show the way styles and features developed in the first half of the 60's when compared with the photos of Austin125's Coronet. Good luck with the sale, or with keeping it if, as you indicated, you are feeling more positively disposed towards what looks to be a really quite nice and well preserved van. Don Ricardo Thank you so much for adding those photos! I agree about the preservation of photos thing, I should get more organised, as this forum such a fantastic resource. I have just committed some serious money to fitting the brakes and changing the hitch, so it likely has to be a keeper now for a while 😊. Two other questions while I have you on the line as I so value your depth of knowledge, if you have a moment! I was just told by the rego people that the caravan needs to have combined indicator and brakes lights each side, at moment has a single indicator, and a brake light as part of number plate light. The argument was that the indicator lights have been changed, and it would have originally had indicator/brake lights. They have been changed but eons ago, seems hardly relevant. Also, double light not true as I pulled indicator light off and it only has a one active wire. Anyone got any advice on rules, no 1 (NSW)? Other vintage vehicles have the same setup and are registered? I have read various threads here on this subject as well, I think the rego guy is wrong? 2. I managed to scrape the caravan on the rego guys forklight 🙄 when last there. I have damaged the ply. J rails im fixing. I did post about it, see vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/18871/repairing-ply-on-bondwood-sides. What filler would I use? I dont want to use acrylic bog….. Thanks so much 🙏. |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Dec 27, 2023 18:28:18 GMT 10
Hi Jdazzle, I'm reasonably certain that the number shown against VIN for your caravan on the PPSR website isn't actually a VIN as such. I've explained why I think that's the case on the 'Caravan Regulations' thread. This post is just giving you a heads up to read the post on the other thread - see here. Don Ricardo |
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Post by jdazzle on Dec 27, 2023 21:24:11 GMT 10
don Ricardo - thank you so much, I read it last night. I’ll reply on other thread tomorrow, basically yes the “VIN” is the serial number on the last sticker on van - 1995. Thank you so much for your research, terrific stuff! I’ll do it justice tomorrow. 😊🙏🏻🙏🏻
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Post by corriethecoronet on Aug 4, 2024 20:52:40 GMT 10
Hi all, I have just joined as my husband and I recently purchased a 1969 Coronet, sadly there is not a lot original left but I am excited to make it my own, the renovations done are quite good, some things I want to change over time. First is the Black paint job, silver aluminium underneath.  |
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Post by corriethecoronet on Aug 5, 2024 13:03:05 GMT 10
 Can someone tell me what the difference between a Prince and Princess model is? And also I believe our back window has been removed, were any models built without the rear window (i wouldn't have thought so) |
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Post by hughdeany on Aug 5, 2024 13:32:57 GMT 10
Hi Corrie,
From memory the Prince was the standard van,the Princess had wrap around windows,holland blinds,mirror overhead sliding doors over the kitchen,more lights and PowerPoints etc.I doubt any models wouldn’t have had a back window back then,your back window was originally a fixed pane.
Hope this helps
Cheers
hughdeany
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Post by corriethecoronet on Aug 5, 2024 22:14:20 GMT 10
Thanks very much, I had a watch of the Coronet history on youtube and I didn't see any without a back window, not sure if I'd be lucky enough to ever find one but that's ok for now.
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