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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 15, 2008 20:24:19 GMT 10
Hi Daggsey, sounds like you've found a great source of some Franklin information! Good onya ;D I've always been curious about how the name Franklin was decided on as the name for these vans. I know that the name Franklin was used in the USA at least in the 1940s for caravans, and I thought perhaps the name may have been used under licence here in Oz. Looks like you've discovered otherwise, although now I'm curious about how someone would decide to name their propery/house as "Franklin". Wonder how it all started? Just for interest, here's a photo of a 1943 Franklin caravan in USA... --------------------------------------------- Will be watching keenly for further information from you if the fella gets back in touch. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Sept 28, 2008 19:04:37 GMT 10
1960s Franklin Panorama van posted on ebay Sept 2008:Edited Description: Franklin 14ft long. Roof is made of aluminium, and the sides plywood. The model name on the front is "PANORAMA". The van is in outstanding original condition and has been kept under cover for most of its life and has had very little use. There are two single beds down the back. There is a two-burner stove with grill. Original varnished wood on the cupboards and drawers. The caravan doesn't have brakes. There is also an annexe that goes with the van that looks like it might be the original, but it is in good condition. The van has 13 inch Holden wheels. [ comment from Franklin1: this van looks very similar in outside body shape to other early Franklins we've seen. However, I'm not aware of any connection between Franklin and the Panorama nameplate as is shown on this van. Maybe Franklin supplied vans that were then branded by others as Panorama, or maybe Franklin made a budget model van and named it Panorama. We don't have enough information on the early Franklins yet to say what the real truth is. Update: I contacted the ebay seller and asked what information they had to connect this van with the name "Franklin"? His response was: "Good question. The only reason I assumed it was a Franklin is that it says Franklin on the rego papers, but it is true that the information on rego papers is not always infallible, and also I don't think the word Franklin is found anywhere on the van itself. Perhaps someone can throw some light on the matter."] Editorial note: It was later advised by Huntsman that this caravan is a Panorama branded Hunstman caravan. See this post and the post which follows it for more information.
For more information about Panorama caravans click here. Don Ricardo
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Post by Franklin1 on Sept 28, 2008 19:59:05 GMT 10
1960s Franklin caravan posted on ebay Sept 2008:Edited description: Franklin in very good condition. 16ft Aluminium van, sleeps 6, 2 doubles, 2 singles. Fridge and stove in working order.
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Post by Franklin1 on Sept 28, 2008 20:07:03 GMT 10
Franklin "Little Nipper" caravan on ebay Sept 2008:Edited description: It is fully restored complete with a brand new original annex from the 50s-60s period. The length is 12ft 8ins, width is 6ft 8ins, and height is 7ft 6ins.
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Post by Franklin1 on Sept 28, 2008 20:20:23 GMT 10
1960s Franklin Premier caravan on ebay Sept 2008:Edited description: 13ft Franklin van. When this van was purchased it was in need of some TLC which we were prepared to give. There was some rotten wood at the bottom of the van, under the back window and in the door frame. ALL the outer shell was removed and the rotten wood cut out and replaced with treated timber and then painted with weathershield paint to protect it for years to come. The back of the van was originally two single beds that I removed and replaced with a double bed. The floor was relayed with plywood, the carpet removed and covered with vinyl flooring. All wiring was fixed and all lights inside and out are working. The inside lights can run off of 240v or 12v, great for camping in the sticks. The van has all new double lined curtains, new seat covers, new light fittings two new tyres, spare tyre and a jack that works. There is also a Sink, fridge, tap, water tank and a two burner heater, which really does heat the van very well.
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Post by chippydave01 on Sept 29, 2008 7:35:31 GMT 10
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Post by Franklin1 on Sept 29, 2008 21:21:10 GMT 10
chippydave is going to start a new thread in DHL on Fairland caravans. I'm temporarily putting some Fairlands info here and will shift it over when he's got the thread up.
Fairland caravan info from the Sydney Morning Herald archives...
First mention appears Saturday, 2 July 1966, with an advertisement showing "Fairland Caravans and Trailers, 175 Hume Highway, Cabramatta." [NSW]
Saturday, 16 July 1966: an advertisement "FAIRLAND CARAVANS. It pays to call at the right place for the most modern Vans AT THE MOST SENSIBLE PRICE. 175 Hume Hwy, Cabramatta. 72-7047"
Saturday, 15 April 1967: an advertisement "YOUR TIME IS MONEY SAVED. MAKE IT A MUST. CALL AT FAIRLAND CARAVANS. FAIRLAND sets the trend for 1967 with a new release of 4, 5, and 6-berth Picadilly and California de-luxe models. The latest interior panel finish, also terylene curtains and holland blinds..."
Saturday, 26 July 1969: an advertisement "FAIRLAND CARAVANS. OPENING SALE. [lots of other text that is too small to read] FAIRLAND CARAVANS, Cnr Box Road and Princes Highway, SYLVANIA."
So, chippydave, if the last advert above is for the opening of the yard at Sylvania, then your van would have been sold after July 1969. Does that match with the age you thought your van was??
cheers, Al.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jan 3, 2009 21:03:51 GMT 10
Hi all, The following article on the refurbishment of an unusual "Carapark-style" Franklin caravan (my description) was published in Caravan World a few months ago. I don't believe we have seen anything like this model Franklin on the forum before? If I'm wrong on that, somebody may be able to set me right. (Source: Caravan World, August 2008, pp 173-4) Note that the manufacturer's plate refers to the 'Commercial Division', which may indicate that this particular type of Franklin van was normally produced for commercial rather than recreational customers. The article states that the caravan: "...had been built for a couple who intended to travel the outback in the 1960's or was it the 70's? Nobody rightly knew." And later on: "CW would like to know if anyone can better identify its vintage...". The manufacturer's plate includes the postcode for Ballarat where the van was built. Postcodes were only introduced in 1967, and only began to be widely used in 1968, which means that this van can have been built no earlier than 1967 (excluding the unlikely possibility that a post-'67 plate was placed on an older van). I'm thinking that the interior looks 1970's (which means that the van should not be appearing on this forum. ;D ;D ;D). However, I'm interested in what others think about the van's vintage and design. Don Ricardo
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 19, 2009 16:04:11 GMT 10
Hi DonR, I must have been asleep the day you posted the reply above, and I've just seen it for the first time (...old age comin' fast ) The Franklin logo in the badge in the article was introduced by Franklin in mid-1970 at the Sydney Caravan Show. If you go back and look at the first photo in Reply #35 in this thread, you'll see a photo of what it looked like on a caravan. There are additional words under the Franklin word which say "The Mobile Living People" [correction] "First In Mobile Living". This version of the Franklin logo lasted until early 1973 when it was changed again to have the arrow head shifted over to the left, and just FRANKLIN in sloping letters. All Franklin badges for the 1973 logo were cast in aluminium and screwed to the cladding front and rear. This is how the Franklin logo remained until Franklin closed down in 1981. cheers, Al. ps. I'll copy your article, and the others that aussieambo posted, over into the Classic forum history section when I get my act together.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Apr 19, 2009 17:52:49 GMT 10
...This version of the Franklin logo lasted until the 1973 Caravan Show when it was changed again to have the arrow head shifted over to the left, and just FRANKLIN in sloping letters. All Franklin badges for the 1973 logo were cast in aluminium and screwed to the cladding front and rear. This is how the Franklin logo remained until Franklin closed down in 1981... Hi Al, Thanks for the info re the Franklin van in the Caravan World article. So, it is a Classic Caravan, not a Vintage Van! I will have to expel it immediately from the Forum. (Not really - it provides an interesting pointer to the history of Franklin. I'll let it stay. I noted your comment about the Franklin logo being changed in 1973 to 'Franklin' in sloping letters and an arrow head on the left. Several people have suggested to me - including someone who worked for three different caravan manufacturers from the early 50's through to the early 70's - that there was a link between Franklin caravans and Freighter Industries, which built various forms of truck trailers and continue to do so to this day. Some have said that Franklin started Freighter (but Freighter was well established and producing its own caravan in the early-50's, so that seems unlikely). Others have told me that Freighter started Franklin (but we know who started Franklin, so that one can't be true). Yet others have suggested that the two companies merged at some point (both companies were based in Ballarat, so maybe that's true). I haven't been able to establish any link between Franklin and Freighter, BUT if the two companies did merge maybe the change to the Franklin logo in 1973 would have provided a branding link with the Freighter logo which is shown below: What do you think? Don Ricardo
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 19, 2009 19:27:10 GMT 10
DonR, now we're going to REALLY corrupt this Vintage section. Firstly, having looked at the Norm Reeman link, I see the wording under the Franklin logo says "First In Mobile Living" and not what I said above (...never trust your memory ). Secondly, Freighter Industries bought out some or all of the Franklin Company. I'll have to read through all the stuff I've collected from the archives to give you the actual story of when and what happened. In the early 1970s the caravan industry was BOOMING, and every man and his dog wanted a piece of the action. Monier bought 70% of Chesney, Viscount became Vicarr and listed on the Stock Exchange as a public company, and Freighter bought into/out Franklin. There were some other changes to the ownership of Franklin during the 70s as people saw the golden dollar signs (...did you remember that decimal currency started on the "14th February 1966", so they were actually dollar signs by then, and not Pounds [sorry, cobber] ). I'll put the whole story together one day soon into the Classic forum. cheers, Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 20, 2009 22:41:40 GMT 10
DonR, here is a summary of the changing ownership of Franklin Caravans. Luckily the first sentence relates to the Vintage era, otherwise you and I would be out on our ear! Up to 1971: Franklin Caravans operates as a private company, Franklin Caravans Pty Ltd July 1971: Investment company “Eastralian Securities Ltd” buys Franklin Caravans August 1972: Eastralian Securities buys a majority stake in Freighter Industries and merges it with Franklin Caravans to create Freighter Franklin Ltd. [It seems that the new Franklin logo in early 1973 was a result of this ‘fresh start’ as a new entity.] April 1974: Eastralian Securities changes its name to “Escor Ltd”. Escor buys the remaining shares in Freighter Franklin Ltd to now own it outright. The Freighter Industries manufacturing facility is relocated from Moorabbin to Ballarat. 1974 to 1981: Escor already have under their wing the refrigeration company Frigrite. Franklin Caravans is separated back out into just a caravan division. Freighter is joined with Frigrite to become Freighter-Frigrite. (…refrigerated transport, perhaps??) March 1981: Escor closes down Franklin Caravans (losing too much money). Have no idea of any history re Freighter after that. ------------------------------------------ An interesting comment was made by a Franklin spokesperson when interviewed just after the closure. He said one of the reasons for Franklin Caravans failing was that "they had made their vans too well" and consequently people didn't need to replace their vans over the years. I think the comment is equally applicable to other brands from that era as well. As we know only too well on this forum, any van from back then that has been reasonably well looked after is still in good condition today. cheers, Al. Oops, I meant to respond to your question about the Freighter logo. I presume your Freighter photo is a recent one. The question remains, what was the Freighter logo like in 1973? Perhaps the Freighter logo has changed over the years, like many other company logos. Can't give you a definite answer to your question, sorry.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 21, 2009 18:24:56 GMT 10
I've sorted through my collection of early 1960s Franklin photographs, and tried to put an approximate date on them based on interior and exterior features/changes/paint stripes/etc. It is only my educated guess, and may well have to be amended as further information comes to hand. The only vans in the photos that have proof of age with them is earlee's van which was ordered in April 1964 and delivered new in May 1964, and foxy's 1967 Franklin Freeway...
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 23, 2009 23:22:01 GMT 10
This post is a marathon effort, so apologies to those readers on dial-up internet connections. I've tried to keep the photos down as low as possible in size so that they don't take forever to download. Franklin Caravan history from 1964 to the end of 1969:The following information covers the range of Franklin caravans for the period 1964 up to the end of 1969. Readers should use the information for guidance only, as it is just my “best guess” from all the information I’ve collected so far. Please feel free to provide any additional information to make the history more accurate. This composite photo is from 1968, but can be used as a guide to explain the various Franklin models… 1 and 6 Franklin Freeway: This model started as early as 1965 (possibly even earlier) and runs through to the middle of 1970, when it was replaced by the Franklin Arrow. The Freeway can be identified by the wrap-around windows at both ends, and has the little brow shape at the roof ends. In the earlier years, the Freeway model was 3 inches longer than the Premier model. Freeway lengths were originally advertised as 12ft 9ins; 14ft 9ins; 15ft 9ins; 16ft 9ins tandem; and 18ft 9ins tandem. Other longer lengths were added in later years. The van shown as “approx later in 1966” in Reply #53 above is an example of an early Freeway. Some other examples of the Freeway models… Franklin Freeway forum links: Franklin Freeway2 Franklin Mini: This little 10ft 6ins model seems to have started in 1966, but wasn't on the market for very long. By the end of 1969, I’m hard pressed to find any mention of it. Examples of this van can be seen in the following 1968 photo, where the vans in the foreground appear to be the Mini… The following Franklin Mini has the chassis number 201-7 which suggests it is the 201st Franklin chassis made in 1967... Note the full width windows front and rear on the 1967 model, versus the split windows in the 1968 photo above it, so there were obviously some changes made during the model run. Franklin Mini forum links: WHAT YEAR AM I?3 Franklin Caravelle: The Caravelle started in 1964 as a ‘small van’ 12ft 6 x 6ft 6. When the Premier and Freeway models were added, the Caravelle seems to have then changed to become the large Franklin van for families, over 15ft to 18ft 6. The Caravelle carries through to the end of 1969, when it drops off the radar… Franklin Caravelle forum links: S J Brown coupling, info requiredFirst real test for Whippy's Franklin CaravelleRot in side walls of franki.What year is my Van ??Whippy"s projectsJ-Rod & Sam's Franklin 4 Franklin Premier: Another long-time Franklin model, the Premier can be found back as early as 1965, and possibly earlier. This model was coupled with the Freeway model in terms of satisfying the majority of customers’ requirements. The Premier can be distinguished by the wrap-around windows at the front only. In the earlier years, the Premier was 3 inches shorter than the Freeway for each size, however there was an additional little 10ft 6ins Premier that wasn’t made as a Freeway. Other sizes came in later years. The Premier can be tracked through to the latter part of 1969, when it fizzles out, same time as the Caravelle did. The Premier seems to have been “as common as muck” and must have been the big seller for Franklin during its time. There are plenty of examples of Premiers in Reply #53 above, as well as these… Franklin Premier forum links: Franklin 19705 Franklin Safari: By process of elimination, this has to be the Franklin Safari. The Safari is another Franklin model that didn’t hang around for very long, having first appeared sometime in late 1966 or early 1967, and had gone again by the end of 1968. The difficulty in researching the Franklin Safari is that Millard also had a Safari model from 1962 until mid-1966, when it was replaced by the Capri model. Franklin must have ‘pinched’ the Safari name after Millard was finished with it. In 1967 advertisements, the Safari lengths are shown as 12ft 6ins, 14ft 9ins, and 15ft 6ins. The following photo is the only example I’ve seen, and information about this model is very sketchy… Franklin Safari forum links: OlFarts new old van 7 Franklin Regent: The Regent was a totally new approach to “aerondynamically designed caravans”. This egg-shaped van was launched in mid-1968, and came initially in 15ft and 19ft sizes, with a 12ft 6ins model added late in 1969. The Regent model carried through past the end of the Vintage era… Franklin Regent forum links: Rexbuick 1970 Franklin 8 Franklin Esquire De Luxe: In October 1967, there is an advertisement for a “Franklin Esquire De Luxe, 16ft x 8ft, separate bedroom, acrylic finish” at the Carapark dealership in Sydney. It’s the only reference I came across in the archives for the Esquire model name. I suspect it is one of the “mobile homes” (or “mini flats” as they were called back then), but I have no further information. 9 Franklin fibreglass: There are two separate mentions of Franklin fibreglass caravans in the archives. From what we know so far, Franklin mucked around with the idea of a fibreglass caravan for a while in 1966. I haven't studied this model much, because there's very little in the archives about it to study. Other members on the forum have some knowledge about it, so all enquiries to them, please. All I found in the archives was a 1967 advert for a second hand Franklin: "FIBREGLASS 14ft 6in Franklin, 4b, 1d, 2s, 2 w'robes, drawers under 6in foam beds. streamline, light weight, precision towing, 9in disc brakes. Has everything..." The other thing I found was a photo taken at the 1966 Sydney Caravan Show that appears to show the back end of a Franklin fibreglass van (as well as the Caravelle in the background)... Update August 2009: The following van was listed on ebay as a 1969 14ft Franklin Caravan. What's confusing is that the Franklin sticker on the front of the van looks similar to the sticker used in 1972 and 1973. I have zoomed in on one of the photos to try and see the sticker more clearly. I've also included the Franklin sticker from a 1972 Franklin Regent in the second group of photos. Maybe the sticker was added to the van a number of years after being built??... There are connections between the Franklin fibreglass, the Kennedy fibreglass, and the Skyline name, so have a look through these forum links: kennedy SkylineCORA LYNN SHOW 5TH OCT UPDATE - scroll down for photos Clipper Van - scroll down for photos trevor Roberts Run - scroll down for photos Mount Gambier - more photos - scroll down for photos [that should be enough to whet your appetite ] [Editorial note - August 2020: For more information about the history of these fibreglass van sold by Franklin, Clipper and Skyline click here. Don Ricardo]Finally, the other fibreglass Franklin comes right at the end of the Vintage era in October 1969. This advertisement doesn't tell us much, and it's the only mention of it I could find in the archives... hughdeani thinks there's one in this forum thread, but the picture is not very clear: One for Boblor...[Editorial note - March 2022: For more information about, and photos of Franklin's fibreglass Regent model click here. Don Ricardo]...time for a cuppa... ADDENDUM - March 2022 (Don Ricardo): Additional photos of the the fibreglass Franklin Futura shown above as posted for sale on the Vintage Aussie Fibreglass Caravans Facebook page in February 2022. As noted above by Franklin1 the Franklin signage is not original and is from a later period: Franklin1 observed in 2009 that the Franklin signage on the van is not original but was from the 1970's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 21:27:40 GMT 10
Hi Franklin1, What a fantastic job you have done,you deserve a medal! Believe it or not,in the Pathfinder ad,the first Franklin Regent on the left of the photo is an elusive fibreglass one.If you look closely you can see it has a different stripe to the others,and rounded edges.I remember the sides looked like they had strands of fibreglass in them and a slightly convex shape. cheers hughdeani
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Post by squizy on Oct 10, 2009 8:29:50 GMT 10
Thanks for the great information. Based on this thread and info from Hughdeani, I can date my recently purchased Franklin Safari to 66-68. Because it's cladded in white aluminium, I'd say it's one of the last then, putting it at 1968. Here's the thread here with some pics. vintagecaravans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=photo&action=display&thread=5132Thanks all, and hopefully we can get along to some runs in the future.
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Post by Franklin1 on Feb 11, 2010 21:02:43 GMT 10
Here is a Franklin Premier model from around 1964/5 which has a "Wanda" nameplate on the front above the window... At this stage, we don't know who or what the "Wanda" relates to, so further investigation is required. [from the thread: New Franklin Member ]
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jodel1050
Junior Member
A Van called Wanda
Posts: 76
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Post by jodel1050 on Apr 6, 2010 18:44:42 GMT 10
Hi Al, Just to confirm the "Wanda" nameplate is at both ends, same location above the front & rear windows, but much more faded at the back. Anyway I have also done a bit more homework in trying to establish its DOB: Stove Info reveals a Sidney Flavel & Co Ltd "Westbury" SN 2441 - Made in England Almost looks new & unused, must admit we only boil the kettle & I cook outside on a modern effort or in the Cobb. The water pump is another interesting period piece, "Whale pump MK IV Tip-toe pump" Made in Bangor Ireland. The kitchen sink is Britax (thought they made windscreens) SN or PN B645: The chest of drawers between the beds has the name "Heinz" handwritten under the top panel: All drawers have the SN 965 penciled on the back: One drawer had the ply manufacturers stamp KLINKII Type C Bond, AS 100?, Merch Craft possibly: Drawer fittings, standard throughout: Upper sliding doors laminex: Inside view of upper door fittings & construction - pretty nasty really! L/H front under seat hatch cover hardboard, has a statement " TIMBROCK THIS SIDE BEFORE USE": We also measured the van & over the longest body to body parts it is 14' 4" long by 7' 0" wide. However over the rear bumper from front body it is 15' 0". For your further info the rear light frames are identical to those on earlee's 1964 Franklin, which is interesting because those frames must have been custom cast in Aluminium, as the original car frames for the 1957 to 1959 Oxford/ Westminster for the Lucas L593 lenses are totally different - I know I bought a set to replace those on Wanda, but at least I have good spare lenses. Regards Jodel
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Post by renovator on Apr 7, 2010 16:56:34 GMT 10
Hi all, from a newbie. My daughter bought an old Franklin Arrow yesterday, to use as a detached bedroom. It is probably 1960s era. Will attach some photographs. As you can see we have quite a bit of work ahead of us! After finding this forum today and spending hours pouring through all the Franklin threads we have decided that we would like to do the job properly and try to restore the old girl as best we can. There are a few built-ins left inside but I wish I knew what it would have looked like long ago in its glory days. Could anyone suggest where is a good place to start looking for vintage parts, starting with a roof vent hatch so we dont get rained out during the reno? Many thanks, Lindy
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Post by frankidownunder on Apr 7, 2010 22:34:27 GMT 10
Hi Renovator, At a quick guess, judging on the roof hatch mechanism, I would put your van at about a mid 1970's. The earlier ones had a metal pan type hatch that was held down by 2 thumb screws and had 4 spring loaded arms to hold it up. Franklin 1 may be able to give you a more accurate date as he is the current Franklin Guru.
Frankidownunder.
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 8, 2010 1:02:44 GMT 10
G'day renovator (Lindy), nice old Franklin you've got there, but yep looks like a bit of work ahead of you. The Franklin Arrow model was launched in mid-1970 and carried through until 1977. If there are any remnants of a Franklin sticker on the front and/or rear above the windows, that will narrow down the year. Or if there are holes where a Franklin nameplate was fitted in the same positions, that will also determine the date. Would you have a look on the drawbar, just near the jockey wheel, and see if there are any letters/numbers welded there? We've collected a limited amount of information so far, but it looks like Franklin chassis numbers in the 1970s, went something like this: 1970 - 1973: still not sure. Haven't found any definite information. 1974: V0001 - V9999 1975: W0001 - W9999 1976: X0001 - X9999 The other thing I would encourage you to do Lindy is to come over to the sister forum for Classic Caravans covering vans made from Jan 1970 to Dec 1979. It's another forum like this one but caters for the later vans. I'm a moderator over there, so we'd welcome you to come and join us. Click on this link: Classic Caravan forumcheers, Al.
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Post by renovator on Apr 8, 2010 10:07:24 GMT 10
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 8, 2010 22:14:56 GMT 10
Hi again renovator (Lindy), As you can see there are a couple of conversations happening in this thread, and it's starting to get confusing about who is talking with whom. I'm going to redirect you to the Classic forum where we can discuss your Franklin caravan at length. Click on this link and it will take you to the "Post message" page for the "Hall Of Fame" section over on that forum. You can create a new thread as a Guest, until your email is up and running again and you can register. Type renovator in the Name field, type 1972 Franklin Arrow in the Subject field, and type the Security Check that appears in the box. Then in the freehand text box below them, put all the into about your van and the photos above. The pipe on the floor is indeed the base for the table. Look forward to seeing you over there. cheers, Al (Franklin1 here and millard1399 [and Moderator] over there. )
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Post by Franklin1 on Jun 1, 2010 17:02:03 GMT 10
At the recent Vintage Nationals in Mildura, a couple (non-members) attended in a Franklin Freeway that had been "rebadged" as an Oasis. I was able to 'get up close and personal' with this van, and made the following discoveries... 1. The Oasis name related to a caravan sales yard in Clovelly Park, S.A. 2. The chassis number on this van was 822-5, which means that Franklin were using the xxxx-x chassis numbering system a year earlier than previously known. This van is a 1965 model... cheers, Al.
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peter
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by peter on Oct 31, 2010 10:21:45 GMT 10
« Reply #10 Today at 7:09am »
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