Tenison? Tennyson?? Or Atlantic?

[Roehm3108]

A bit of a mystery here folks. You may have noticed a 1952 "Tenison" vintage caravan advertised on Gumtree:
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/woolsthorpe/caravans/1952-tenison-bondwood-vintage-retro-caravan/1260373313

I have never heard of a "Tenison" caravan, but there is a "Tennyson" caravan mentioned in DHL vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/3254 These seem to have their origins in the late 50's (aluminium framed windows).

The Gumtree van shows the picture of a little plaque that definitely has the word "Tenison" imprinted. It's unknown if the plaque is in itself original, but it seems strange that it should not be.

Amongst all that, I was curious about the Gumtree van's resemblance to the Atlantic caravan. Blow me down if I don't espy photos of "Betty", originally photographed by former member Reddo back in 2013 and inserted into the DHL thread by our sleuth DonR. vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/2037?page=1 DonR particularly commented on this van's double windows. The Gumtree van has similar windows on the back and I'm wondering if the DHL van and the Gumtree van are one and the same. I say this with a degree of trepidation, because if that is so, then a lot of work has been done to the van's interior in the past 4 years. It looks like the kitchen has now been moved from the centre driver's side to the rear kerbside, where a single bed used to be and it is now really a two single berth van, which requires the dining setting to be converted for the second bed.

Has anybody seen this Gumtree van or know anything about it, especially whether it might actually be the DHL van. If it is so, then the little plaque is a complete mystery.

[shesgotthelook]

Not the same van. Airvents, power inlet, light, wheel arch & curve all different

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Roehm and SGTL,

That's an interesting puzzle isn't it? I have been looking at the photos of the "Tenison" for a few weeks and trying to decide whether the two vans you've mentioned are the same van or not. Where I'd got to previously was to think that may be the van on the Atlantic thread isn't actually an Atlantic...but that's not the question you asked Roehm.

I've copied the photos and put them side by side (see below) - the "Tenison" is on the left, and the "Atlantic" on the right, I've compensated for the fact that the photo of the "Atlantic" was on a slightly different angle to the "Tenison", and I've also levelled the "Tenison" up:



Looking at the vans side on there are a number of differences in the locations of the vents, the external light and the power sockets, etc. But let's just leave those aside for the moment. If we look at the side profile of the vans they are very similar indeed. However, the front of the "Tenison" is more perpendicular while the front of the "Atlantic" seems to slope backwards a few degrees. I also can see that the front of the "Tenison" seems to curve in at the bottom just a little more than on the "Atlantic", and that the rear end of the wheel arch has a slightly different angle to it compared to the "Atlantic", as SGTL observed.

I also think that the window on the "Tenison" is a little wider than on the "Atlantic". However, overall the variations are relatively slight to my eye and I wonder if they are due (a) just to the fact that the angles of the photos are not exactly the same despite my fiddling, or (b) that the variations reflect the natural differences between vans that would have been hand built, or (c) that the "Tenison" at a claimed 10 ft is 6 inches longer than the Atlantic at a claimed 9 ft 6 in?

I've also put the rear of the vans side by side, although I couldn't fully compensate for the different angles in this case. Nevertheless, looking at the rear of the vans, they again seem to be very similar and the placement and size of the two windows seems to be identical:



Then we go inside and that's where the really big differences are. The layouts are completely different, with the "Tenison" being a possible 2-berth (one bed running along the off-side, and one using the table), while the "Atlantic" is 3-berth. Even more startling is the fact that the galley in the "Tenison" is at the rear on the near-side nestled between the wardrobe and the rear wall (which explains all the external vents, etc), while on the "Atlantic" the galley is on the off-side wall over the axle. Then there are differences between the vans in the construction and size of the table, and the overhead cupboards, etc. Both vans are single skinned, and most if not all of the differences in the layout could have been made if the "Tenison" was gutted and completely rebuilt...which does happen.

However, in the end I agree with SGTL that the two are different vans, because of the slightly different profile of the front, the wheel arch and the slightly smaller side window on the "Atlantic". But that just raises another question - even if the vans are two different caravans, is it possible that they were built by the same manufacturer? And on this question I am going to say 'yes' because the differences are so relatively slight, and because of the similarity of the rear windows. The configuration of the rear windows is fairly unusual with most manufacturers either not installing a rear window in their small vans (ie 10 ft or less) or installing just a single window.

Based on the assumption that the vans were built by the same manufacturer, who built them? Could it be Atlantic? Possibly, the overall profile of the vans, including the wheel arches is very similar, and the layout of the "Atlantic" is almost identical to the actual 50's Atlantics. BUT as far as I can tell Atlantic didn't put rear windows into their pre-1960 bondwood caravans. Funnily enough none of the forum members who have/had Atlantics have shown us the rear of their vans! Not sure why, but if you see this post, Belinda and MRFJ55 NOW'S YOUR CHANCE! (Just writing the last phrase in MRFJ55's language. )

Could the vans have been built by Tennyson? As far as I can find out Tennyson built caravans from 1957 to 1964 after which they closed down. That excludes the possibility that the "Tenison" was built in 1952 if it actually is a Tennyson. In addition I'm pretty sure that Tennyson vans had aluminium windows fitted, whereas the "Tenison" has wood framed windows. Taking a different tack, I can't find any reference to 'Tenison' or any vans built under that name. So, I'm ruling that one out.

Could the vans have been built by someone else, and perhaps a manufacturer yet unknown to us? Obviously yes. To quote Donald Rumsfeld's comments about vintage caravans (that is what he was talking about wasn't it?) there are known knowns, there are known unknowns, and there are unknown unknowns!

Looking at the 'identity plate' on the "Tenison", my guess is that at some point an owner needed something to verify the identity of the van, somebody told them it might be a 'Tennyson' and the owner then had a plate made up using their own spelling:



The funny thing is that if you look at the drawbar of the "Atlantic", it too has had a nameplate made up that I am pretty sure isn't original either!



Not sure whether we've reached a conclusion...?

Don Ricardo

[Roehm3108]

Hi DonR. As expected, you have done your usual "due diligence" analysis - well done. The more I look, the more I agree that the DHL van and the Gumtree van are NOT one and the same vans. Actually, to my mind, seeing them side by side, all those vents on the Gumtree van quite spoil the side of that van.

But I reckon you could pretty well overlay one outline of the sides over the other, and feel that they came from the same builder. Whether they are Atlantics or not is remains speculative - not impossible. Is it possible that Tennyson were building caravans (or even only shells) before 1957? Perhaps these will remain mere speculation, until such times as our resident Atlantic aficionados grace us with their wisdom!!

[Don Ricardo]

Hi R3108,

Yes, it's absolutely possible - indeed likely - that Tennyson had been building caravans before the first adverts in the press started appearing in 1957.

My observation is that quite a few caravan manufacturers started building vans quietly for a while, selling them locally to contacts or maybe through a dealer, before they get their confidence and stock numbers up and start placing adverts in the papers. Franklin is actually an example of that - Geoff Robertson's first few caravans were sold through Hawthorn Caravans in Melbourne. So Tennyson may well have started a year or two, or perhaps more, before 1957. However, I'm guessing that the owner who made up the 'Tenison' ID plate didn't have any documentary evidence that the van was built by Tennyson, or else they would have got the spelling right?

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Roehm and SGTL,

As I should have done earlier on, I took my search regarding the "Tenison" a little further and checked out Ridgeydidge's Atlantic from 2007 here. Here's his van - before restoration I hasten to add!



And the all important rear view:



Aha! Two rear windows!

I think we can now say that both the "Tenison" and the "Atlantic" we have been using for comparison on this thread are definitely Atlantics, as is the one currently on Ebuy.

Case closed??

Don Ricardo