Aluminium Windows..when did they first appear

[cobber]

One of the criteria we often use to try and determine the year a “home made” Vintage Caravan was made is to see if it was made with aluminium window frames or not.

To get the ball rolling, to find out when aluminium window frames first became available, I submit this advertisement for a “Freighter Trailer” that appeared in “Australian Motor Manual” May 1, 1954.

Although this shows these frames were being fitted to manufactured caravans in 1954 it does not prove they were available to the kit builder at this time.



The earliest advertisement for aluminium framed windows as an accessory I have found is in “Australian Motor Manual” August 1, 1955.


Does anybody have evidence that they were available before 1955 ?

Cobber.

[Geoff & Jude]

hi all, thought i'd join the debate re aluminium windows.

the following photos are from an august 1955 edition of modern motor magazine.

this carapark is ALL METAL, so it would probably have aluminium windows.


the flynn's ad mentions they can supply aluminium windows to any size, so the home builder had them available in 1955.


jennison have aluminium windows and gypsy mention 'metal windows', i presume aluminium.


paramount mention 'full vision windows', probably aluminium framed.
plus a bonus mini article on the cordell sports caravanette for those interested in it.


just a bit more food for the debate table.

geoff 'n jude

(and then i realised cobber had already used some of the references - oh well)

[Deleted]

Hi Cobber

Only issue i have with the " 1954 frieghter van " and its aluminium windows is that no where in the advert does it state that it was an Australian made van . may well have been a yank import from an earlier year. ( "frieghter" is a yankee term) But what we are trying to establish is when did Aussie van builders start using aluminium windows??
As you say the evidence so far points to 1955 .

Another issue i have is my Fairway van has timber windows so i have been calling it a mid fifties van. Given that aluminium windows where available in 1955 doesnt necessarily mean that vans with timber windows where all made pre '55. I would imagine there was a lot of van manufacturers that persisted with timber framed windows right up to a point where thier sales where starting to drop off due to public demand for vans with aluminium windows.

What i am saying here is that it would be possible that timber framed windows where still being offered to the public up until as late as the early 60s' and some home builders may have stuck with timber windows for longer than that

Is this a logical train of thought

Reddo

[cobber]

Reddo mate,

Don't take any notice of KB 2's jibe, we all know you are capable of a strange kind of logical thought.... sometimes.

The fact that it is called a freighter Trailer does leave it open to question if it is Oz or yank that's for certain sure, but then the price is given as £625 and the door is on the left hand side ,which means it was available in Oz at least.

What you say is true, a van with timber frame windows could have been made in 1936 or 1976 but if it has aluminium frames we have to try and determine if they appear original or not. If they look original, and the van is in original condition, at this point we can conclude it was not made before 1954/5

Anyway...a fair dinkum ridgy-didge restorer would not replace timber (wood) with aluminium ....would he

Cobber.

[Roehm3108]

My 1951/52 Keith Winser Book (No4) has no aluminium windows in any of the A-Z listed vans. It DOES have a Luxury10 with Aliminium weather shields front and back, so the alli was starting to be use in manufacturing.
Cobber, the Flynn pics in my book show it has wooden windows.
Geoff, your ad re the Caravan Park Ltd shows the Superb (like mine) with all metal construction. That is all steel construction walls, but with wooden windows. I think that they didn't go to Ally till they became Carapark in the mid-late fifties.
I think it's becoming more and more conclusive that Allum windows came around the mid fifties.
Ray

[Deleted]

Cobber rowte

"Anyway...a fair dinkum ridgy-didge restorer would not replace timber (wood) with aluminium ....would he

Cobber." ;D

Reddo replied:
"Anyway.. a fairdinkum ridgey-didge restorer would not OWN OR WORK ON anything other than a WOODEN caravan no matter wot sorta windows it had. .

Sorry for the interuption to your thread Cobber it has been interesting an informative so far, and i must apologise for the loutish comments made by those south of Albury.

Reddo .. Ace Restorer Co .
Life member of the "Royal Bondwood Preservation Society"

[ridgeydidge]

"a fairdinkum ridgey-didge restorer would not OWN OR WORK ON anything other than a WOODEN caravan" says Reddo.

I'm happy to confirm all that has been said as to what a fairdinkum ridgey-didge restorer would or would not (or is that wood not) do. I'm picking my project up on Saturday and looking forward to a long thorough resto.

Cheers
David aka ridgeydidge

[cobber]

Prompted by Sportsman1 (thanks Leigh) who noticed that this add. from 1954 shows the “Hendy” caravan with what appear to be Aluminium framed windows. However the next add. from the same caravan & Touring Manual for a DIY version appear to be timber framed.
There are no adds. For aluminium window frames in the 1954 book and none of the other caravans pictured in the book appear to have aluminium frame windows so, maybe the fact that parts of the “Hendy” were supplied by “Ansair”.. who built aeroplanes coaches/buses and were a division of Ansett airlines... has something to do with the “Hendy” being maybe possibly one of the first Australian made caravans to have aluminium windows (if it has)





Cobber.

[harriet]

hi harriet hear . the 1950 globetroter i am doing up has ali windows in it the old guy i got it from had them made specialy to keep the wife happy. as he told me cost lot but boy was it worth it .

[Jennison]

May as well put in my 2 bobs worth re the aluminium question
My 1953 Jennison pathfinder has aluminium windows(with gal sheeted sides) regards jennison

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Cobber,

Just a point of clarification re Reply # 10, Ansair was orginally a division of Ansett Transport Industries which produced coaches/buses - not aeroplanes - from the 1940's onwards. I'm guessing that the name Ansair may have been derived from Ans(ett) Air(lines).

More information on Ansair has been posted at this location: vintagecaravans.proboards30.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=chat&thread=3335&page=1

Don Ricardo

[sportsman 1]

Hi all,

Seems I may have stirred up some useful discussion. I would assume the Jennison Pathfinder of Jennison's would be original, and if it was built in 1953 then it would be the earliest one so far.

This brings me to Harriet's reply, he states his 1950 Globetrotter has ali windows which were custom made for the old guy he got it off. Were they fitted when the van was made new or were they fitted at some later stage? I suspect the latter.

cheers, Leigh.

[cobber]

G'day Gordon,

According to W.M. Whiteman who wrote a book called "The History of the Caravan".....( British caravans that is, pity we don't have one on Australian caravans eh?)... Aluminium framed windows came on the British scene in 1947 and replaced the chromium plated brass frames which were heavier and more expensive, I have not yet found what caravans they were fitted to so like you I will keep looking.


Cobber.

[harriet]

hi harriet here. dont know when it had them fitted but i will try to find out . I remember the old owner said they cost a lot at the time to have them made .

[cobber]

G'day Gordon,

From what I have read, soon after the end of the war when caravan manufacturers returned to making caravans for domestic use...... and they were sorley needed to house returning soldiers.... they were told to stick to basics because materials and labour were required for other major works.
It was not until around 1947-48, and even into the 50's, that they had access to the materials and technologies that had developed as a result of the war, so you're right the war had a lot to do with the new way of doing things.

It seems as though it took a couple of more years before aluminium windows became common place down here.

As an aside.... these basic “live in” caravans that were built to house people in crowded conditions just after the war........people who did not want to live in caravans in the first place, apparently is blamed for causing a lot of resentment towards caravans for many years after the war.

Cobber.

[sportsman 1]

Hello to all,

just noticed Harriets post in the Globetrotter section in D H L.

Apparently the ali windows in his globetrotter were fitted as a one off job in 1952!

I think he is winning.

[harriet]

hi harriet here .since found out the ali windows where made by Fred Clark the owner of peninsula carstings at wingfield in sht.aust. then in 1956 he made a lot more for caravans in S.A.

[BluetangJo]

My 15ft homemade has wooden windows, but also two aluminium opening portholes. So, my question is, when did aluminium portholes first appear??

Jo

[Don Ricardo]

On 26 November 2013, Franklin1 commented on the introduction of double hopper windows and sloping sided windows by Viscount:

The double hopper windows...were being used on the new Viscount Ambassador model that was launched in late 1964, but could have been used by other manufacturers earlier than that. The sloping side windows were also used on Viscounts and Valiants in 1963, but again could have been used earlier by others.

(The comment was in relation to a non-Viscount/Ambassador van with double hopper windows belonging to Beetlesbailey.)