Historic trailer registration in NSW

[Deleted]

Hi All

Warning : Another ill concieved idea from a twisted mind

When is a vintage Van really a vintage Van????No i dont mean at what year do we stop calling old vans... old vans.

TD trailers like The shultzs, Kaybees and veedubnuts definitley qualify for the title of Vintage teardrop trailers. however i have a problem that has been bugging me for some time now.

Hmmm ....I have had a lot of problems that physciatrists and other forum members have been trying to sort out for sometime now without too much success.. . but ... this latest problem is different.

As some of you are aware i have set out to build a teardrop Trailer using a chassis that i rescued from under a late 1950s /early 1960s alloy caravan.
The steel chassis measures 2500mm X 1380mm , runs mechanical overide brakes , 15" wheels and has a dropped axle. All of which is now fitted under partly constructed teardrop style bodywork.

When finished I am considering trying to register it on NSW historic plates as a "Historic Trailer" @ $18 per year. it will only be used on recognised V Van runs but there is 2 problems i see with my plan.

One ...is that you must be a member of a club to hold historic rego on any vehicle... be it bike, bus, car, etc... I am unaware of any vintage trailer clubs and as we are not a club i cant quote www.vintagecaravans.com as my club. So ... where do i sign up. ?? The RTA would not have created this historic category without being pressured by some group that wanted to register old trailers and possibly vans.
Can you see where i am going with this train of thought folks. Not just an ugly head eh....How would you like $18 rego for your vint van... yes i am sure you would!!!

Two...As with bikes, buses, trucks cars the RTA regs states the vehicle has to be " as close to the manufactures specifications as possible. Some clubs allow period accessories.... not sure if completely demolishing the body and fitting a new Reddo designed TD style is classed as " Period accessories" sorta like fitting a differnt style body on a car. Meyer Manx buggies/VW floorpan and running gear, Ferrari bodied Celicas etc.

Three answers i have come up with are:
I am a member of a bike club ... might be able to run it through the club system. Gets messy doesnt it.... hey look its got two wheels.... must be a motorbike...... Hows about an"Oversized sidecar"

Two: The RTA are not to know what body style was on the 1950s van chassis. I can say i have completely demolished the old TD and faithfully reproduced the original shape in new materials. I just got "a bit loose with the measurements and forgot to fit a window here and there:D"
Awww Geeeez Ref dont blow the whistle on me just because i didnt read the plans properly .

Three:
Tell 'em its a glorified box trailer with a fully enclosed canopy on it... Dont laugh . With all due respect to other teardroppers and propert owners on this forum... it aint that far off a fair description
Geez i can see the linching party coming up the road already....Gulp!!!

So my TD is not a vintage TD. its a new TD built on an old chassis. Oh my gawd!!!, oh my gawd,!!! oh my gawd.!!! ...... i can feel rejection from forum members coming on already

"Black duck syndrome"... "He is not like the rest of us" (Ya' statin' the bloody obvious there Josephene .) ......
......."You can come on the runs with us but ya have to travel at the rear of the procession"..... "A caboose"... "Gaurds van"
I was gunna point out retro1s van as a complete rebuild but then i realised it is a complete rebuild to the original Castle design.... Bugger ....who else can i implicate in my evil plans to dud the RTA of a few bucks a year

Three.... To conform with the rank and file.... (something i have always hated doing) ... but probably the most logical. Get it inspected as a new camper trailer ... pay the money and put full NSW rego on it.

Your thoughts people.
I hate thoughts ... they take up too much room in my melon. Ya get too many in ya head and they start to compress against the inside of ya skull and thats what gives ya headaches
Even if my plan fails we can continue this thread on the topic of cheaper historic rego and where do we go to sign up.

......Nurse... Oh nurse... Two panadol and a bedpan ....thanks.

Reddonedayiamgunnatakethingseriously... probably be too late

[cobber]

Hey Reddo,

Fair suck of the sav mate!

I reckon your pulling our leg with the first part of this missive. No way does that TD you are building qualify as an historic/vintage caravan...you know that, OK?
You might pull the wool over the RTA’s eyes put we know different, and when it comes to a vintage caravan rally....well.. you know what you can do with it then eh?

But you do own a vintage caravan, and I like the way your thoughts are running in respect of cheap rego for ridgy-didge vintage caravans.
In this highfalutin hi-technology age we live in I reckon an Internet based gathering of like minded people qualifies as a “club”... for the purposes of cheap rego.

Give it a fly mate...if it works you will be a legend...if they put you in goal we will come and visit you...occasionally.

S’pose I’m back to being a fossil eh

Fossil.

[humpty2]

As you would know Reddo, you must be a member of a "club" recognised by the RTA (they have a list!!!.)
Whether your TD can be registered via your bike club is a matter of your clubs constitution.
Your TD could qualify as a special bodied by Reddo whatever...much the same as model T racers etc...............and don't forget.....Most vans back then were home made specials!!!
Lastly , where do I get more details on this concessional rego for caravans.

Regards Humpty

[Deleted]

Good points one and all.

Had a bit of a think about this again.
Camper trailer plans have been around since Jesus played full back for Jerusalem.
So all i have to tell the RTA is i have built a teardrop from 1950s plans. Hey , 1950s teardrops where new in 1950. Right... so ...my TD is a vintage caravan built in 2006 using materials salvaged from the 1950s bodywork on 1950s chassis .
More than 50% recycled materials content so older than newer. Hence the Vintage Van title......he,he,he
Sorta like Michael Jackson claiming his dad was white
I rest my case....so Bugger of Fossil. Yes.... you are "A Ridgey Didge Fossil" again Cobber.

FibreHumps
Yep i am aware of the RTA requirement to be a member of a club and that club needs to be listed with the RTA. I looked at all this when i was President of The Hunter Valley Norton Owners Club for a few years.
Its not real hard to establish a motoring interest club and get insurance for that club. As little as a few hundred bucks will buy you a stack( $10,000,000) of public liability insurance and then away you go with your special interest motoring club. The club has to be two years old before you can appoint machine/vehicle examiners and forward thier credentials to the RTA as approved examiners.
This would mean that if a vint van interest group/club (Eeeeekkkkk ooooo wwwwaaa red rag at a bull swear words) was formed they could do thier own inspections after two years. keeping in mind that vans on $44 or thereabouts a year are only classed as box trailers for rego purposes anyway and do not require annual inspections for full rego. they probably would require annual inspections if registered as vint trailers..

As our learned J.B.Juice has mentioned ...and i agree "Clubs (can) suck".
This topic has been mulled over often enough on this site so i wont go on about it . I have been a member of a bike club since 1998 and have reaped the benefits of being a clubby and also the cheap rego on my bikes. Ya just gotta know when to back out of the way of the bung fights and when to go in swinging. I have found that arms length is a comfortable way to describe my association with the club. 99%ers make it worth while being part of it . However the 1%ers can do enough damage to drive potential as well as existing members away. Nuff said.

You will remember my 3rd alternative on the first post was to just pay up for full rego = unrestricted use= no need for club.
The idea is good, and as i said "probably the logical thing to do" But when i seen that "historic trailers " classification on the purple RTA form the other day when i was registering the 1945 BSA 600 t'other day. The "What about Vint Vans" cogs started turning in the Reddo melon.

Plan No" V.V 126754345678 is.....
I might put my best public citizens face on and toddle on down to the RTA and make a few enquires about just who and where are the people registering the trailers on Histo rego.
If ya hear of a physchopath being restrained from strangling an RTA Pleb and pullin' them through that 6" counter window by the throat at a Newcastle RTA office , then ya can rest assured its ya old mate Reddo doin his bit for the vint van movement.

Ivan Melatt has a toaster and a TV in his prison cell . Perhaps they will allow me internet access to talk to my V V buddys on the "outside".... Hmmm maybe they will let me out on weekends to go on van tours. Or... maybe give ma a power saw and drill so i can build a vintage aeroplane/glider/helicopter to trial out in the exercise yard.......Cccccooooooooolllllllll
Honestly Governer, mate , cobber ( ooo look theres that word Fossil ), mate, pal......let me out and i will behave..... I am normally a placid man. Just keep the Police,The screws, The parking cops, the RTA, The tax office, The Phone company, The electricity company, the council, The gas company...uuummmm ... anyone with a fibreglass caravan and The Mother in law away from me and everything will be just Ginger Dandy ;D

Reddo - Watchit......I have friends in low places.

[humpty2]

If you want to test the last plan,go to Wallsend RTA. Nice people and pretty well "full bottle" on Concessional rego.

[Deleted]

Hi Humpty

RTA Wallsend!!!

I had a major blow up with them the other day whilst registering the BSA. I have registered at least a dozen vintage bikes and cars over the past 5 or 10 years not all mine . the missus has a few as well, and not all on Historic rego... some where on the old RTA "Club Plate Scheme" and have what i consider a solid grounding in what is required from the RTA when you front up at the counter.
I took: A reciept of purchase, club membership card, machine examiners report including all numbers, proof of year and make etc, etc, drivers license, Historical vehicle declaration form along.

All was in order until the office girl noticed that there was no "official club stamp" in the little white box on the bottom of the RTA Historic declaration form. I drew her attention to the fine print below the square that state " If available". i went on to explain that the club does not have an official ink stamp and therefore it is "not available"........ WELL didnt that send her into a tailspin!!!!. She gave me that "Every club should have a stamp " look.......from then on i was treated as a criminal and asked to "take a seat" while she "Consulted her work colleagues"
I protested that i had never had a problem in the past with no stamp being supplied. This only darkened her frown and at one stage i thought she was gunna call security.
.... I retired to the plastic furniture and sulked. I sat for over an hour while the pleb sort conformation from head office that in fact i was not a criminal and NOOOOOO i did not have to provide a stamp. The hour spent on the sideline was put to good use. I noticed the "We value your comments on RTA Service" forms.
I put pen to paper and protested in true Reddo fashion about the lack of understanding of "The System" by the counter pleb. I suggested that she be relegated to the Position of "Tea girl" until she could be trained up all matters pertaining to historic registration applications. I also mentioned that she should be made to walk vertical like the rest of us homosapians.

Eventually the scrum behind the counter dispersed and i was summoned to the counter . As if by magic all previous concerns had faded into insignificance and the plate and rego label where slid across the counter with a smile.......I popped my letter of protest in the box on the way out the door. Stopping the service clock at exactly 1 hour and 20 minutes. Previous registration applications have been completed in less than 10 minutes of me arriving at the customer service counter.

I recieved a reply from the manager at wallsend. She stated that staff have been trained to ensure that all applicants and paperwork meet the requirements before issueing plates.
and while she appreciates my concerns she feels that the staffs actions on the day where warranted............Struth Ruth.... What party of "If available" dont they understand!!!!

i have been doin a fair bit of RTA bashing these past few days. I suppose some of it is not called for but there is areas of "The system" that get up my nose. They will probably end up auditting me and i will go to Gaol for having to many cars, bikes, caravans, trailers registered in my name.

Valium.... thats what i need ......valium.
cuppa tea and a laydown!

Reddo

[Deleted]

Hello Vintage van peoples.

Its your old mate Reddo reporting back with some ground breaking news for all of you with vintage vans.

You may need to go back to the start of this thread to get a handle on what can and cant happen when you deal with the NSW RTA.
Once you have absorbed the minefield of pitfalls etc you can come back and pick up on this post... or otherwise just read on and place this post in your memory banks next time your vint van rego comes around.
Step 1 :Tuesday 3/4/2007
Attend club meeting with information on my reconstructed vintage van which retains the original chassis as used on the 1954 alloy van that i demolished to biuld my teardrop trailer/van . took along photos of the teardrop and info on bondwood teardrop vans that showed that teardrops where and optional body design on vans such as the sportsmans etc. Also supplied info on keith windsers books showing plans for construction of teardrops in the1950s era. also explained that the comparison of fitting a different body style to a common model chassis eg:in the case of a car from sedan to tourer body ... its only the body shape that changes.
Club officials where satisfied that the reconstructed van met the criteria for a vintage van and hence qualify for historic trailer concessional registration. the necessary forms where completed and signed. Note here that i explained to those involved in the decision making process that i intended to use an authorised inspection station for the purpose of attaining a pink slip for historic registration and therefore there was no obligation on the club examiners to inspect the van for roadworthy purposes. Just verification for eligibility.
Also note blue slip inspections are only required when you intend to register an unregistered vehicle on full nsw registration. ( vehicle more than 3 months out of rego)

Step 2: wednesday 4/4/2007.
Book into authorised inspection station for pink slip inspection.
the inspector asked that i fit two red reflectors on either corner at the back extremitys of the van. i bought 2 off him for $3.50 and fitted them there and then.
he also asked what the VIN/chassis number was . as the original van chassis did not have one ( common not to find one on low
production or owner built specials back in the 50s). he stated that if i was registering it on full NSW registration he would have to ring the RTA who would then issue a vin number which would be stamped into the chassis. however seeing as though it was to be historic registered i could use a vin number that was unique to me. I first thought about date of birth. also thought about "1934 TD" just so i could claim the oldest van on the forum
Eventually we settled on my license number and after checking everything from wheel bearings to lights , tow hitch , safety chain etc the completed paperwork was handed to me.

Step 3 today Thursday 5/4/07
Attended local RTA office with all the previuosly mentioned paperwork as well as the RTA purple form with "historic trailer" ticked.
Also supplied ,drivers license, proof of club membership, historical vehicle dec form ( RTA form 1257).

All went well until we got to the historic trailer category .
In my description i had included body style as teardrop. It was here we found a stumpling block was it a trailer or a caravan??.
He found trailers on the list of historic vehicles but nought on Vans.
much conversation followed and eventually the van was registered with the following details noted;
Year 1954 Make: Bondwood Model :OOTRAIL Shape: CVT
CTP class: TRLR
Vin: (my licence number...as instructed by the inspector)
Admin Fee: $17.00
Con Reg plate: $34.00
total : $51.00
Plate Number: 7223-H

i still havent weighed the van but i estimate that it is approx 250kg in its naked onloaded state. no one has asked for a weighbridge ticket yet so i deduced that it is not required ?
The trailer has no brakes and appears that they are not necessary until the van is capable of a GVM of around 750Kg. thats a lot of beer cartons.

i think registration fees per year are approx $16 which is a bonus. as opposed to roughly $50 for full nsw yearly trailer rego.
Would be an even greater saving if your van is fitted with brakes and costs around $160 a year to register.
The down side to this system is the conditions set out in the "certificate of approved operations" which basically state that i can only use the van on organised club runs or maintenance runs.
our club has a reciprocal runs system with all other clubs in our district which basically means we invite them to come on our runs and they invite us to go on thiers. so you have the potential to use your vehile vertually every weekend if you felt the urge.
obviuosly the old vans arent on the road everyweekend but i can apply to our club registrar for 'permission to move " to organised motor vehicle events put on by other historical vehicle groups.
providing i have my intentions minuted at the previous club meeting we have no problem with runs such as "east coast tour, Mt gambier, wintersun etc"
i know it sound a long drawn out procedure but i wanted to check the system to see if the RTA would accept our old vans onto the historic registration system
obviuosly there will be those that will say "Why not just pay the extra and have full use all year round' . I agree but as i said i just wanted to "test the water ' to see if it was feasable to register our vans on the Historic plate system... i have now proven that and documented how to do it.


see yas at munmorah
regards
reddo

[aussietanker]

well done reddo ...

thanks for all the time and effort put into this for those that want to follow this particular path ..... and thanks for the "clear how" to instructions ...

BTW : your TD looks schmiiiiiick ;D extra congrats ... and much satisfaction i suspect ... and see ... it only took 19.78 years, not 20 ;D ;D ;D

regards
A|T

[Deleted]

Hi All
Gronk wrote:

Hi all, Thought I'd see if things were different here in the Troppo state. Surprisingly almost exactly the same as NSW. Must be on recorded message:-). The Transport QLD guy I spoke to said concessional rego. is available with the following proviso's:

a) Must have proof of membership of registered car/van club
b) Must have ceritficate from the club stating vans particulars
c) allowed ONLY to go on club runs/events
d) can only move 15km's from registered home address for roadworthy/inspection purposes

Think I'll just pay the $60 for the Egg and keep my big yap shut.

Cheers,

Gronk


Onya Gronk.

Just goes to show you are best to do a bit more homework and get involved with your clubs constitution. i have written this article to help people simplify the registration of thier vintage vans in NSW . i mentioned that i could have just registered the TD on full NSW rego but i chose to test the system and see if there was a saving to be made for forum members.
I repeat
Take the time to read the following .

a). proof of membership.
No problem there old mate have been a member of a club (including president for 2 years)) for the past 10 years. my club was more than happy to include vintage caravans or trailers in thier constitution. Note here that they are not a bunch of narrow minded old farts either. i stated my case at a general meeting in front of all attending members and they could see the benefits to those in the future.Not just me.
just dontb forget to take your membership card when you front up to the rego office ok.

b)Must have certificate from the club stating van particulars.

Right again . In nsw its called a RTA form no 1267 or something like that. too late at night to go over old posts looking for the correct numbers.
claiming the vehicle qualifies for historic registration and needs to be verified by a club registrar . The van i demolished was built in 1954 . The van i have reregistered is a 1954 van. In fact the evidence i used to verify/register the van came from the very same source that everyone is so keen to document here on this site.
Same chassis different body style.
Also have to show original bill of sale when fronting at the rego office.
might pay you to look at how many model t or model a roadsters that are now getting around the streets as fully restored utes which wherent offered by henry ford back then....hmmm

C) allowed only to go on club runs.... Welll not "ONLY on club events there is a perfectly legal alternative.
tune up runs. ... or in our clubs case. If you notify the club registar of "intention to move" on a vehicle related event we usually get permission to do so... read here "vintage caravan events". also covered by reciprocal invitations .. i.e: we send other clubs our calander of runs and events...they send us thiers at the start of the year. what this means is we can attend any other clubs events because we have been invited to attend. in reality my car, bike or van can be on the road nearly every weekend of the year.
Note here: includes NSW NRMA motorfest if i so desire.

d) Can only move 15k for the purpose of registration.
Thank christ i dont live in qld.
In nsw your club nominates a radius distance for tune up runs etc. our club has a radius of 30ks. what is the point of travelling 15k after an engine rebuild or some other mechanical work. you need to get the thing up to speed and on the open road to really test the engine etc. best done on a 100kph stretch of road. not around the bloody block.
again if i let the club registrar know where i am going and stick to our club rules i am committing no crime.

i hope this clarifies a few concerns you had before you sent your post from "The troppo State .
Look forward to sharing a few beers with you and enjoying our vans when we meet.
Regards
Reddo

[Deleted]

Hi Gronk


I get a bit toey when issues about CLUBS come up.
Its actually a four letter swear word on this site and i should know better than to arc up over club related odds and ends.

The reason the whole vint van movement right around australia has bloomed and blossomed is because of Mark Taylors foresight to start his website. none of us want the hang ups of club beaurocracy.
We are just like the heckarwee tribe... a bunch of peace loving injuns that love our vans and the layback life style that goes with it.

As i said in closing before.
Look forward to sharing a beer with you and checking out our vans when we catch up with each other.

Regards
Reddo

[krisbee]

Hey, glad to see you two sort that out, just goes to show how easy it is to be misread.We all know how enthusiastic Reddo is about VV's,and from your post's Gronk I think that you will become addicted as well,we all look forward to seeing you and the Egg at a run.
Cheers for now Kris