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Post by andrew on Mar 17, 2006 21:43:35 GMT 10
G'day all, Been cruising this bonza site for a few weeks since my mate Dave (61 dodge) told me about it so now it's time to jump on the wagon. Or should that be caravan. New member, heaps of questions. My wife jacqui and I want to build a teardrop and have read lots of articles and sites but no-one says much about insulation. How cold are old teardrops to sleep in? We live in Victoria Does ply thickness make a difference? Is 6mm ply, 19mm polystyrene, 3mm ply interior an overkill? Will 16mm ply do a similar job or would it be better with some rubber backed marine carpet (un-used) on it as well? The teardrops size will be 8'x 4'x4'. We have a shape and lay out but need this info. We hope all will become clear in the fullness of time. Please speak oh great oracles
On a lighter note, we do have caravans. 4 of actually. A 19.. Franklin 12'x7', a 1972? Coronet 14'x7', a 196? Phoinex 15'x7' and a late 50's early 60's bondwood job that is 14'x7' that I still have to pick up. We think it could be 1956. Tardy on the outside but stock as on the inside. Not that good on computer but will try to put some photos in members vans. We do need some van dating. May need to do something about this 9hr a month internet thing we have now that we found this site.
Thanks all, yours vintagely andrew
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Post by trodler on Mar 18, 2006 6:10:21 GMT 10
Hi Andrew. Welcome to the site. Just to answer a couple of your questions, 6mm ply on the outside of an insulated frame would be OK but if you are concerned about weight you could cut this back to 3mm and put in a couple of extra verticle frame members to support the ply. 16mm ply will not offer much insulation at all and even with the carpet it still wont be as insulated as using the 19mm polystyrene.Hope this helps.
Cheers Trodler.
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Post by andrew on Mar 20, 2006 15:03:16 GMT 10
G' day Trodler, This is the third time I have typed this out cos the power has gone off twice. Thankyou for the response to some of my questions. We will go with the insulation. Will also help to hide the wiring. Checked out your van and we reckon it's grouse.Is the fluro original or have you found a supplier. The one in our van is cracked and so was one we recently saw in a Rowan caravan. Thankyou again. I'll go before the power goes off again Andrew
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Post by Paul on Mar 20, 2006 16:30:09 GMT 10
Andrew, Be careful with the use of polystyrene as an insulator-- Highly flammable. I used flame resistant bats in mine. If you decide to use the poly make sure you shield any wiring that may come into contact with it. Just an opinion from a Guest
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Post by trodler on Mar 20, 2006 19:58:40 GMT 10
Hi Andrew. The lights came with the van.They arnt really a fluro light as they have the normal bayonet fitting on one end with the long globe. I was supprised to find that you can actually still buy globes for these.
Cheers. Trodler.
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Post by andrew on Mar 21, 2006 14:57:38 GMT 10
G'day Paul and Trodler, Thanks Paul for the warning. I hadn't thought about the flamable factor. Shell keep that in mind. It's handy to know about the globes. I haven't actually touched the things yet but we have a good globe shop in Geelong so if I need them I'll go there.
Thanks Andrew
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Post by 61dodge on Mar 21, 2006 21:35:39 GMT 10
G'day Andrew, Good to see you here!! Also good to see you did a proper intro, unlike my self . On the insulation thing, there is a fiberglass bat available that would be perfect for in the cavity wall of a van. It is compressed and has a resin or similar on it so it maintains it's shape and can be cut to size. Flammability is well worth thinking about, particularly when 240v electrics are involved. I haven't used this product for some time but can find a product name for you if you wish. Can't remember if it was made by PinkBats or another brand. Yours with Southern style, David.
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Post by andrew on Mar 22, 2006 15:55:23 GMT 10
G'day 61 dodge Thanks mate. Yep name would be handy
My the southern cross shine bright upon you.
Andrew
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Jim
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by Jim on Mar 22, 2006 17:10:01 GMT 10
Ok, I’ll ask the dumb questions..
Why is it thought necessary to line and insulate a teardrop? What reasons would be against a single external skin construction for a teardrop?
I know the internal appearance is quite different, but apart from appearance, covering the frame and wiring etc on the inside, are there other reasons for an internal lining?
As I see it construction would be simpler, less materials, less weight, etc. Unlike a caravan you don’t live in a teardrop, you only sleep in it.. (well.. usually.. sorta.. Ok, it's a bit like a more respectable version of the shaggin wagon we used to lure the girls to the drive-in years ago.. with a kitchen on the back)
It would be a painted interior rather than veneered board, but I can live with that.
Is there some downside factor I’m missing with a single skin construction?
Damn.. I've probably answered my own question haven't I.. Moan and groan factor.. stop the noise..
Any other reasons?
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Post by trodler on Mar 22, 2006 20:19:25 GMT 10
HI jim You hit the nail on the head when you said that you only sleep in a teardrop. Have you ever slept in a single skin van in a cold climate? Have you ever been suddenly awake because you have moved and put your butt against a cold wall? Even with ventilation you will find that two people in a warm bed will cause a fair bit of condensation on the ceiling. So the insulation helps to keep the internal lining at a similar temperature to the inside of the teardrop. Not only that it helps to keep the inside cooler on hot days too. As for the flamability of polystyrene, I would only use a flame resistant polystyrene, but keep in mind that the teardrop is made from a highly flamable substance, timber.
Cheers. Trodler.
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Post by will and Lyn on Mar 23, 2006 0:32:25 GMT 10
Hi Andrew the secret to getting a good night sleep in a Teardrop is to have an eight inch mattress insulation and two doors one either side so if your partner needs to go during the night they can get out without waking you up My teardrop has all three It had the two doors when I found it and I insulated it and added the big mattress no probs Mate great way to holiday img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/billyn/P5210020.jpg[/IMG]Regards Will
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Post by will and lyn on Mar 23, 2006 0:59:44 GMT 10
these are the two doors on the teardrop Crapbucket is being difficult this was suppos sed to show on the previous posting hope they come up on this one will
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Post by will and Lyn on Mar 23, 2006 1:18:02 GMT 10
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Jim
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by Jim on Mar 23, 2006 10:28:46 GMT 10
Thanks for your replies guys..
Trodler It’s been many years since I slept in a teardrop (the one in my avator picture).
I remember it was single skinned, with the frame showing inside, but don’t remember condensation being a problem, although at 15 the things that worry you (or don’t worry you) are quite different to when your 50+.
I accept that condensation happens. We’ve used tents, campers, windups and poptops over the years and lived with the canvas/vinyl condensation thing.
Is it the smaller confines of a teardrop that makes it more of a problem? Is it the fact that there isn’t any canvas, such as in a tent or camper that makes a difference?
Andrew.. A question about the sizes you mentioned.. Is it to be 8 ft long overall? And does the 4x4 mean 4 ft wide by 4 ft high?
Are your measurements overall dimensions or internal?
A guess as to why you haven't seen insulation mentioned in articles you've read is it wasn't considered years ago. Possibly many of the articles you've read are years old ?
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Post by belinda on Mar 23, 2006 17:20:05 GMT 10
On our first trip in the (single-skinned) van it got to minus five overnight and not much over freezing during the day, so it helped that we were old bushwalkers and used to keeping warm.
You can have the warmest sleeping bags in the world and still spend a miserable night, and conversely be quite cosy with less-complicated equipment.
- sleeping bag ratings should be taken with a grain of salt. If it says "minus five" that's where the thing becomes totally useless, so you'll be pretty uncomfortable well before that. A "zero-degree" bag is what I'd use for a sleepover inside a (heated) house. All our bags are at least minus fifteen.
- down bags are more expensive but they squash up smaller, which could be important in a teardrop
- NEVER store sleeping bags compressed in their bags or you will ruin the "loft". Between trips they belong in big cotton bags.
- put out sleeping bags at least half an hour before you go to bed so they "loft" (fluff up) as much as possible
- keep your head covered, and if you're really cold wear a balaclava. Old Paddy Pallin always said "if you've got cold feet put a hat on". It doesn't look sexy, but it makes a big difference.
- sleeping bags provide no insulation at all underneath you where they are compressed. Buy a double-width closed-cell foam mat and put it between you and the mattress
- use a sleeping bag liner. The extra layer of trapped air adds warmth and it can be washed, meaning your bag doesn't clog up with body oils. Silk ones are best because they slide around, rather than twisting up like a corkscrew
- leave a window or vent open to reduce condensation.
- have a warm, sweet drink (not alcohol) before bed so your body has something to burn and keep you warm
- nothing beats a hot water bottle
Other things we did in the really cold weather were to bath the kids and have our main meal in the middle of the day so we weren't frigging around in the dark and cold. Next time we would also take a solar water bag to take the chill off any water we used. This would have saved a lot of fuel when cooking.
Most of the time we aren't travelling where it's below freezing, but it's good to know a few tricks of the trade.
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Post by andrew on Mar 25, 2006 14:51:10 GMT 10
G'day Jim, Yes Jim those measurments are all external. We thought we would try to, actually I thought that I would use a ply sheet size so that there would be no joins in the walls or floor. I also thought that if all went well in the construction and there was enough interest in them I might build a few and sell them, hence the insulation factor for those that don't camp so much and like to cool when it's hot and warm when it's cool. Thanks to everone that has put their 2 bobs worth in. There has been some great discussion on the subject and has given us lots to think about.
A funny thing happened on the way home from looking at a potential van for restoration. As I'm driving along, the little voice says," Check down the side roads Luke." Yeah why not thinks the boy. So after a few roads with no vans in sight or out of sight, the boy drives past a house that has lots of machinery and fallen sheds around it and as he looks back over his shoulder through the 3 foot gap in the fence and there surrounded by carnage and cud chewing cattle was something low, semi shining and had a window. Picks heaved out and a turn of 'u' was thrown and a more close look from the front seat was taken. The long and short is that next week,( early I hope) for $250 I will be going home with a pressed diamond pattern aluminium teardrop van. External measurments 9' long, 4' wide and I spose 4' high. Couldn't walk up the side of it.(size 9 work boots are 12" long. Beauty!) Wasn't going to take the boots off. Too many cow pats. It has a gal angle iron chassie. Looks the goods. Will attempt to post pics tonight
Bye all Andrew
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Post by poptart on Mar 25, 2006 17:11:15 GMT 10
Andrew, Lucky b. Sounds like a great find and an even better price. Hope to see pics soon. As for insulating a TD I ,personally would not contemplate one without it. My experience is limited but I do know enough about the extremes of the Australian climate to recommend it. Cheers Paul
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veedubnut
Full Member
The Compact Camper
Posts: 272
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Post by veedubnut on Mar 25, 2006 18:17:36 GMT 10
Hello fellow vintage vanners, Thanks for your great information Belinda, I am about to reskin my Teardrop and I was not going to worry about insulation... Now I think I will have to as I am contemplating taking it to the High Country for some snow skiing and fly fishing... Of course it is going to be freezing and I don't even want to think what an unhappy damp and chilled camper I will be My only concern is I am trying to keep its weight to a minimum as I am towing it with my 1200 Beetle... Its first trip will be to Nambucca in August... hmmmm what to do? Cheers Greg
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Post by belinda on Mar 25, 2006 18:55:54 GMT 10
For camping in the high country I think your money would be better spent (and would keep you warmer) buying a very, very good sleeping bag. You might even be able to hire one from Paddy Pallins at Jindabyne.
I used to be a cross-country skier and we'd camp out in the snow. For camps below the treeline at Island Bend we often didn't bother with a tent at all - on a fine night we'd just put down a groundsheet and closed-cell mats (more expensive ones that are suitable for snow) and sleep out under the stars. With a "snow bag" and the various tricks listed in the earlier posting it wasn't a problem.
Consider the physics of the thing. Whether the insulation is lining the van or filling a sleeping bag, all it does is conserve the heat your body puts out. It doesn't provide any additional warmth.
With a sleeping bag your body only has to heat up a little cocoon. With an insulated teardrop you have to warm the whole space.
On thinking about things further, it occurred to me that a lot of heat is lost through glass. In our van we use one of those reflecting windscreen protectors to keep Winter warmth in and Summer heat out - I'd certainly add one to your camping kit.
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Post by 61dodge on Mar 30, 2006 22:11:32 GMT 10
VeeDubNut, If you can, before re-skinning that van go to a plasterboard and insulation supplier(not a hardware store, they know nothing), and ask about an insulation bat that is compressed. I still cannot remember the product name,yet. It can be easily cut with a Stanley knife and is about 1' or so thick. It is like a normal fiberglass bat that has got extra resin in it to hold it rigid. It would be perfect for this job. I will try to find the product name ASAP and put it here. Hopefully tomorrow. Dave.
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veedubnut
Full Member
The Compact Camper
Posts: 272
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Post by veedubnut on Mar 31, 2006 20:13:03 GMT 10
G'day Dave, Yes I have had my father here helping me with the demolition/restoration the past three days and he has also mentioned the same product and he can't remember the name of the product either... Said it almost looks like "Dacron" the padding they use in lounge chairs and sofas. If you can remember the name of it that would be great Cheers Greg
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Post by 61dodge on Apr 1, 2006 21:55:45 GMT 10
OK, I have got a product name for the insulation bat. CSR make one called Quietell. It comes in two sizes, 460x1160 and 2.4x1.2. I did not get the price but am told it is quite expensive. You would have to buy a full bag and that would easily be enough to line 2 or 3 teardrops. The bat is more for sound proofing but would also have at least some thermal properties. The bat your dad knows sounds like Rockwool, it is also quite stiff but thick enough to fill a domestic cavity wall. Too big for this job. I've used a lot of Rockwool over the years and do not recommend it, there are better products out there. Pink Bats also have a similar product to Quietell, the local Boral distributor is getting more info for me. I will put that here when I get it. A good idea may also be to use some of the silver paper that houses are wrapped with between the insulation bat and the outer skin of the van, Sisilation has a insulation rating of R1, and is waterproof, it will reflect excess heat on hot days and be a help to whatever bat you put in there. Every little bit helps. If there is a housing development any where near you drive past, most builders would give you the end of a roll, or you will find window and door off cuts that would easily be big enough. Good luck, you will end up with the most cozy tear drop ever!!
Dave.
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veedubnut
Full Member
The Compact Camper
Posts: 272
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Post by veedubnut on Apr 2, 2006 18:22:09 GMT 10
Thanks for your help Dave, I have spoken to my local hardware and they can supply Quietell. I will only need a pack and will probably have enough left over to do another two teardrops It will indeed make it very cosy ;D I was not going to insulate it but, after reading all the information you guys have been posting here I'd be mad not to! Cheers Greg
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Post by Paul on Apr 2, 2006 20:21:08 GMT 10
Greg, You will not regret it, Trust me. Cheers Paul
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Post by 61dodge on Apr 4, 2006 22:31:18 GMT 10
Hi All, Just got another lead on a suitable insulation material. This is a Boral product. It is a semi-rigid glass wool insulation, 30mm thick, is easy to cut, has R1 thermal rating, good acoustic rating, sheet size is 1200mmx2400mm(4'x8'), it can be ordered by the sheet, and should cost no more than $32.00 GST inc per sheet. I knew there would be plenty of good options out there, was just a matter of tracking down the most suitable one! Now go and build the best, most cozy tear drop ever .
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