Is this van what I think it is?

[Don Ricardo]

Hi all,

I was thumbing through a book recently and came across the following photos which puzzled me no end:





Can someone in the 'Fibreglass Brigade' tell me what they think this van is, and the approximate date? I know what I think, but I just need someone to confirm it for me.

I have deliberately obscured the branding in these photos so that whoever looks at them will make a judgment based on what they can see of the van itself, not anything else. I will reveal what puzzled me after I have had a few comments from people on what they think the van is and its date. There is obviously a story behind my request for comments...

I look forward to some of your thoughts.

Don Ricardo

[cobber]

OK Don R I'll bite.... why isn't it an early late 50s Sunliner
Like....... who else used those beautiful door hinges

Looks the same as the one here at reply #6 to me.... I'm pleased you didn't want to know where it was built.

Cobber.

[Don Ricardo]

G'day Cobber,

I presume you mean early 60's rather than early 50's? Ah, I see you said 'early late 50's'. But yes, that's what it looks like to me. The front windows are a different shape compared to 'Reply #6', and possibly don't open. Not sure...

I'm hoping that Humpty or JBJ - who have/had Sunliners, or anybody else with Sunliner knowledge for that matter - can give us an approximate date...

Don Ricardo

PS There are no wrong answers on this one...just a curious fact or two.

[boblor]

G'day All
I would say a Sunliner, year???, front and rear windows are after market, the rear windows appear to have curved glass/perspex. Is that chassis /'A' frame the normal .
Cheers boblor

[JBJ]

Hi All,

The shell is second model Sunliner/Gracemur/whatever, based on the Sunliner mold. The ribs going behind the wheel well,under the front side windows, & the raised panel(stone guard effect?) at front didnt come in until early 60's. The aluminium framed side windows are the same era.
The door was the same thru Sunliner production.

Sunliners were only produced from 58 to about 65. The early 58 to 60 didn't have any ribs under the front side windows, & had different shaped wheel openings with removeable spats, & no rib trailing back from the openings.

They also had the side windows hinged, using fibreglass components to assemble the windows, not aluminium framed.

My guess for this is some company built it under license/subcontract to Sunliner. Or someone modified front & rear windows from the original.

All the records were destroyed a few years back, so no one really knows other than what is verbally passed down, & what is discussed.
Just my opinions, & quite possibly wrong at that.

But its no earlier than early 60's, & unlikely to be newer than 65.

JBJ

[brucenan]

Looks like you have been browsing through 'Vantastic'
Bruce

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Cobber, Boblor, JBJ, Banno and Brucenan,

Thanks for your responses, and Bob good to hear that you're still firing, even if from a hospital bed. Keep up the good work.

The reason for my initial post was that I just wanted to confirm that what I was looking at looked like a Sunliner from around the mid-60's or a couple of years earlier. (Didn't want to make too much of a goose of myself with what follows! )

In fact I think JBJ was pretty close with his comment: "My guess for this is some company built it under license/subcontract to Sunliner. Or someone modified front & rear windows from the original."

The van is actually a 1967 Concord caravan built in New Zealand. Here it is with the brand name and manufacturer's plate:





The little plate under the front windows says 'Atkins Caravan Sales'.

As Bruce picked - and I suspect Cobber knew what my source was as well - the photos are from Chris Hunter's Vantastic (HarperCollins, 1965, pp 119 & 113).

So we appear to have stumbled across another little piece of Sunliner history...

...except...according to Chris Hunter, Concord caravans were created by a Rudy Mueller of Tauranga and were then produced from Mueller's mould by brothers Keith and Colin Atkins. You can read the rest of the story:




(Source: C Hunter, Vantastic, pp119-120)

Without intending to besmirch Mr Mueller's character or memory in any way, you'd have to think he got his original Sunliner/Concord and/or the moulds from Sunliner in Australia, perhaps when they closed down in 1965?

A couple of interesting little snippets from Chris Hunter:

• "Today, Concord caravans are difficult to find second-hand, and are even sought after in Australia." He has possibly seen Sunliners in Australia and thought they were Concords?
  
• "Concord Fibreglass is now gearing up to restart the manufacture of Concord caravans." And indeed they appear to have restarted. Check out this Oxford Concord for hire. (Oxford is part of the CI Munro company which went into an ill-fated partnership with Concord at one point.) See also this pic of the current Concord Fibreglass caravan range which still bear quite a strong resemblance to the original Sunliners.
  

At some point I will transfer some of this info to the Sunliner thread in the DHL section - it seems to me to be as much a part of the Sunliner story as Gracemur, even if we haven't quite nailed down the link between Rudy Mueller and Sunliner.

Don Ricardo

[atouchofglass]

Thanks for the info Don R
Have looked at these vans some time ago when one at 23ft? came up for sale in NZ
Then promptly forgot about it cause it was in NZ.

The Concords seem to have taken the Sunliner shells to the next level.
Larger without loosing the basic shape and appeal
Would love to have one of the larger vans myself.
Sort of the fibreglass version of a airstream
^{Yes I know that is a stretch...... but let me dream}

The shape is more valid today than when first produced
What with the cost of fuel, rego,travel in general etc
Who wouldn't want a waterproof, slick aerodynamic shape to tow behind any vehicle !!!!!!!

Thanks again for making the connection
Saw the vans but never saw the connection
Great bit of work there DonR

I dips me lid to ya

Cheers
Atog

[Don Ricardo]

Thanks ATOG.

I must say it gives me a real kick when we are able to get a couple of bits of seemingly unrelated information and work out the connection. All adds to the intriguing jigsaw that is the V V forum, eh?

Don Ricardo