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Post by winterwood on Sept 15, 2009 22:26:36 GMT 10
Hi all,
My recently acquired 1950 Bondwood, weighs in at 880 kilos, but does not have brakes.
My understanding in Vic that if a van weighs over 750 kilo, then it must have brakes. However I think I have read somewhere on this forum, that if they were not originally fitted when it was built, then they don't have to be added.
It hasn't been continuously registered, if that makes a difference.
Forgetting the safety aspect for a moment, could someone please clarify the situation for me.
With thanks
Max
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Post by yellowuki on Sept 16, 2009 7:51:18 GMT 10
Hi Winterwood...I am in the same situatio, they won't register u her in Vic without brakes  Cheers, Yellowuki  |
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Post by cobber on Sept 16, 2009 9:23:15 GMT 10
G'day Winterwood, Now I ain't saying it is.... but I've been thinking. Your 'van looks to me like it could have been built in Queensland.... is that possible ? It has that same built in step arrangement as Chesney and Orford and Athol Hedges caravans ...all from Queensland and all with that built in step arrangement..... it seems to be a Queensland thing... just like barn doors. Now.... we all know Queensland is a bit different..... to the rest of the world  and whereas I think all other states stipulated that a 'van over 750 kilo had to have brakes... maybe Queensland didn't  . That doesn't mean your not going to be required to fit them in Victoria. Hope that helps   Cobber. |
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Post by ronmcgr on Sept 16, 2009 10:32:07 GMT 10
G'day Winterwood, Now I ain't saying it is.... but I've been thinking. Your 'van looks to me like it could have been built in Queensland.... is that possible ? It has that same built in step arrangement as Chesney and Orford and Athol Hedges caravans ...all from Queensland and all with that built in step arrangement..... it seems to be a Queensland thing... just like barn doors. Now.... we all know Queensland is a bit different..... to the rest of the world and whereas I think all other states stipulated that a 'van over 750 kilo had to have brakes... maybe Queensland didn't . That doesn't mean your not going to be required to fit them in Victoria. Hope that helps Cobber. QLD eventually caught up. The same rules apply, 750 kg and above, you need brakes. Cheers, Ron |
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Post by ronmcgr on Sept 16, 2009 10:45:01 GMT 10
Hi all, My recently acquired 1950 Bondwood, weighs in at 880 kilos, but does not have brakes. My understanding in Vic that if a van weighs over 750 kilo, then it must have brakes. However I think I have read somewhere on this forum, that if they were not originally fitted when it was built, then they don't have to be added. It hasn't been continuously registered, if that makes a difference. Forgetting the safety aspect for a moment, could someone please clarify the situation for me. With thanks Max Max, As is it now unregistered, it will have to comply with the current regulations (lights, brakes, tec) to get registered. As the van is not overly heavy, you could fit "Over ride" brakes. If you are going to tow it with an older car with drum brakes or a small car, I'd suggest "electric brakes". The electric ones are obviously the best and quite cheap to buy. As you have a Jayco I would imagine it has Electric Brakes and you would know all about them. ;D The disadvantage with the over-ride ones is they rely on the tow vehicle pulling up, to activate the caravan brake. If you can imagine a situation where the tow vehicle brake lock up and the vehicle slides, the caravan will just push it along. I'm going to fit the electic ones on my 1 tonne Arrow ;D Cheers, Ron |
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Post by cobber on Sept 16, 2009 13:18:22 GMT 10
We may have to eat our words about Queensland Ron..... I just had a look at the "Caravan Regulations" thread in DHL and it indicates that Queensland was the only state that said in 1956 "Any and every trailer must have efficient brakes on at least two wheels".... etc. etc. (that's in reply # 4 by D R ) At the same time (1956) it appears that the state of Victoria didn't even care if the caravan had wheels  As to complying with current regulations..... in NSW the same rule applies regardless of whether you're registering or re- registering a caravan or a car..... if it is original and un-modified and you want it to stay that way.... it's OK. I would expect it to be the same in all states This discussion usually degenerates into somebody saying something like " You've got new tyres on your 'van...... so it's not original"  Cobber. |
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Post by ronmcgr on Sept 16, 2009 15:30:19 GMT 10
Hi Cobber, WOW! QLD was actually first in something Wonders will never cease ;D As for the discusion degenerating into the term "Originality", who cares I'd rather have wheels with "Miracle Rims" as they were called back in the late 50's (A bead pressed into the inner edge of the rim to stop the tyre sliding in on a blow out), good modern tyres and effective brakes. I remember the old man getting the FJ Ute and 54 Customline wheels done. Sure stopped the uncontrollable steering when a tyre blew out! On the Arrow, I'm going to fit HQ Holden hubs and electric brakes, with 15" Jaguar SI XJ wheels. The old six stud Chevy ones will be up for grabs. As the wheels can hardly be seen, I don't think it matters. The other ARROW I've seen has FJ wheels  Cheers, Ron |
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Post by winterwood on Sept 16, 2009 17:00:18 GMT 10
Thanks Cobber & Ron for your helpful input.
After phoning Vic Roads and after being transferred back and forth, I ended up in the Vic Roads, Vehicle Safety Branch.
A very helpful "Angela" said she would get back to me after doing some research, and after a little while she quoted from "Vehicle Standards Information No 9".
The bottom line here in Vic, is that regardless of build date, originality, etc etc, if is over 750 kg, then it needs brakes ... either over ride or electric.
I asked her about NSW and her answer was ... "we operate independently in Vic".
I didn't ask her what the situation would be if it had been continuously registered, but I think the answer in that case is that it would ok without brakes .... but that's another question for another day!!
Max
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Post by ronmcgr on Sept 16, 2009 17:09:49 GMT 10
Max, I think all states will be the same. Problems like third party insurance, public liability, etc, has them all ducking for cover. The world just ain't what it used to be! I'm told that in QLD, the vans must have a "certain floor" material as well, to be registered! I'm yet to find out the definition of "Certain" ;D Cheers, Ron |
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Post by davenq on Sept 16, 2009 21:18:43 GMT 10
Ron.
depending on total weight (Gvm) ..in qld if it's less than 750kgs , you can register it as a "trailer ...750 to 1 tonne...(I believe ...you can "self assess it "..take ...ALL dimensions ...(make sure the back overhang is shorter than the front..)..
and away you go...
.
.door on "Non traffic" side (I guess that means lhs or back...)
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Post by viking on Sept 16, 2009 22:11:14 GMT 10
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Post by atouchofglass on Sept 17, 2009 5:36:37 GMT 10
Max, The world just ain't what it used to be! I'm told that in QLD, the vans must have a "certain floor" material as well, to be registered! I'm yet to find out the definition of "Certain" ;D Cheers, Ron Sounds to me like someone is pulling your leg Ron Registered the Olympic earlier this year and neither the guy who did the inspection or the sheila who took all the measurements at the Dept of Reg ... looked inside. They are to busy and not that interested I was asked if there was a fire extinguisher inside and when I said no.... was told to go out and buy one when I got home To them these vans are just another form of revenue. If it looks like you are making an effort to bring it back to life they just don't worry. Cheers Atog |
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Post by ronmcgr on Sept 17, 2009 6:45:10 GMT 10
Hi all, My recently acquired 1950 Bondwood, weighs in at 880 kilos, but does not have brakes. Max, I noticed in one of your photos, that the DeSoto wheel comes with a drum and backing plate. Have you taken the drum off to see if the brake shoes are still there? If the are, you couls easily just fit the mechanical brake system to the front! Cheers, Ron |
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Post by ronmcgr on Sept 17, 2009 6:46:22 GMT 10
Atog, That is good to know. Maybe I won't take it to "Arrow" Cheers, Ron |
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Post by yellowuki on Sept 17, 2009 7:30:58 GMT 10
Even if it had been continually registered, you'd still have to dodge the coppers now if it didn't have brakes I met a couple in Eden with a 1960's alluminum van that had been continually registered and had no brakes......when the time came for them to leave, the lady was going to drive, she asked the question "it doesn't have brakes, will it jacknife?".......the very dry humoured husband replid "just avoid emergencies dear" Yellowuki ;D |
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Post by yellowuki on Sept 17, 2009 7:34:48 GMT 10
ohh...something else I thought u may find interesting Winterwood.....pre-1981, by law u can get away with running the single stop/tail combination light, it's under trailer regulations on the Vicroads website ;D |
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Post by minicamper on Sept 17, 2009 10:55:13 GMT 10
Hi Max,
I did some digging on this a while ago.
From what the authorities told me, the brakes law was actually adopted by all states and is a requirement irrespective of the age of the van. In Victoria, unlike the ADR rules that only apply to the level that existed at the time a vehicle was manufactured, the trailer laws to some extent were enforced retrospectively.
In other words, when they brought the law in, if your van weighed over 750kgs, you were required to fit brakes.
I believe in Vic, that an RTA officer can pull you over, put a portable scale under your van and "do you on the spot" if you are in breach.
Having said all that, why wouldn't you want them is the question I'd ask?
They were the easiest thing I had to do to Alby.
Go see the guys at Melbourne Trailer and Caravan Supplies in Chelsea heights, just off the freeway.
They can replicate any axle requirement and electric brake set up to suit any stud pattern for originality and are very reasonable. It becomes a simple unbolt, remove, replace and rebolt job. Add a wire for the brakes from the plug.. easy..
Hide the electric brake controller in the car and you're done.
Cheers
Chris
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John
Full Member
Posts: 267
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Post by John on Sept 18, 2009 14:06:52 GMT 10
Chris is on the money with this one.
Dad had a new axle made by these guys for his van. Very reasonable and was able to keep the original wheels. Good professional job and makes his big van a lot easier to tow.
Cheers,
John
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and whereas I think all other states stipulated that a 'van over 750 kilo had to have brakes... maybe Queensland didn't 
.
