Help with Di's new Tow Car

[1954homemade]

Hi all,

I need some help?

2 weeks ago the 318 in the Barracuda died, so at present I am car less.

Long story so I won't go into it, but I won't be keeping the Barracuda therefore I am looking to purchase another car. ;D

This is where I need your help?

I want to purchase something newish 2006/2007. So hopefully it won't keep needing much work done to it. (Apologies to those people that prefer a classic car to go with a vintage van, but I don't have any choice at present).

The Barracuda was on LPG, so I am leaning in that direction for a new car (to make the trips to the SEQLD events cheaper)

So far I have looked at Ford Falcon Futura (factory LPG), Mitsubishi 380 (dual fuel) and Toyota Camry Altise (Petrol) and Nissan X-Trail (petrol).

I am really not bothered which brand of car I get, but am thinking that I am really going to need something with grunt and a higher torqe rating for towing the van. But equally it will be used as a daily driver, so I don't want something that will be drinking heaps of fuel hence LPG. The Toyota is only a 4 cyl so I don't think that would be much good. Where as the Falcon is 4.0l 6 cyl, so that would have more grunt and a higher Nm.

Those of you that know my bondwood van would realise that it isn't very long, but as it's rather tall it's a bit like pulling a brick wall. (See photo on my Avatar).

The other reason for looking at 2007 cars is that hopefully I will still qualify for some Manufacturers Warraty. I've noticed that Mitsuibishi and I think Hyundai offer 5 years.

I don't want to start a debate on Ford versus Holden or anything like that, but would appreciate any suggestions on newer vehicles that you have used previously or are currently using to tow your vans.

Also, please let me know whether LPG is a good way to go? If there is any reason why I should keep clear of Ford Falcon Futura or Mitsuibishi 380? If my thinking is wrong and a 2.4ltr 4 cyl would do the job or not? etc etc.

Many thanks
Kind regards
Diane

[Roehm3108]

Hi Di!

My advice would be to avoid front wheel drive cars like the plague! They are simply not safe for towing in my mind. Had an experience some years back in the backhills of Coffs Harbour, when I ran out of gears trying to pull a van up a steep hill on a dirt road (was directed there my Main Roads people). My ex was getting ready to jump out of the car to sit on the bonnet to add some weight to the front . (probably why she's my ex now ;D ;D ;D) Finally got some traction again, but swore off fwd after that experience.

Both my Rav4 and current Nissan X trail have been great tow cars. Rav 4 limit is 1500kg, whilst the Xtrail can tow up to 2000kg, the best in this class. The xtrail gives my 9-10 litres per 100km normal (mostly country) driving - (better than the Rav) and about 13-14l per 100kms towing both the Superb (about 850kg) and Wayfarer (same weight) up from Melbourne. Towing the Propert is about 11-12l per 100kg. Another reason I love my Propert!!!! ;D ;D A gas tank would take up most of the boot in those vehicles.

That's my 2 bob's (sorry, 20 cents) worth.

Ray

[Geoff & Jude]

hi di

i think i might be able to help you with your (new) car.

i might be convinced to let the crown go for about $50000 to a friend if you twisted my arm.

otherwise i'd suggest you go for a falcon on gas, great economy and there's no 'real' drop in power on gas.

if you look around you'll notice that most of the nomads are towing with either big 4wd's or falcons.

whatever you get, make sure if you get an auto you put an additional transmission cooler on it.

before you buy anything though, go to the auto auctions and see what's available - we saved about $5000 (truely) when we bought the ute at pickles. click here for pickles

it's a good idea to get something with a bit of factory warranty, that way you're 'insured' against any problems that you find after you buy it.

ps. the mitsubishi 10 year drive train warranty only applies to the original purchaser, not 2nd hand vehicles.

geoff 'n jude

[melburgorbust]

You can pick up a 2002ish last generation Magna Verada (top spec) for around 10-12k now. We've had one for maybe 6 years now, and I'll be the first to admit that I dont enjoy the ride or handling at all, but the motors are fantastic, I've towed 3 kombis behind it, 2 morris minors along the Black Spur, as well as a box trailer packed to the top 1800km return each year upto the south coast of NSW and the beast is a fantastic tow car, never had any dramas no matter what weight we're towing, and with the box trailer full it still pulls harder then our Volvo 850 with just 2 people in it! Has been nothing but reliable, and the 3.6L engine is a powerhouse for it's size.

[DC3Td]

Although i`ve worked at major Mitsu dealerships i am not a fan of the 380. Now working for a major Auction house i deal with these 380s almost every day. Still not a fan,never will be. Remember: you get no warranty from an auction place. You can be lucky of course but if you`re spending, say 25 grand you want peace of mind. But gee whiz, a new donk in the Barra & surely it must be worth doing? Otherwise, go for a test drive in other cars that take your liking AND test drive with the `van in tow to get the feel. Dealers want deals.If they won`t let you hook up the `van,walk away. Happy trails. Gordon

[Roehm3108]

Hey Geoff!!!
I reckon that your offer to Di is a bit stiff. I reckon that you should offer the Crown as a clean swap for the Barra. To my mind that would only be fair - neither goes!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Di,
I used to know (actually still do,just haven't seen him for a while) a guy who imported V8 donks (low mileage) from the US of A and did them up for resale. He was a racing car mechanic at one time of his life, so knows his way around these motors. He may still have some left over, I'm not sure. Want me to check?

Ray

[Deleted]

Hi Di

Stay away from any 6 cylinder falcons with an "A" as its first intial...
Plastic radiators... 8 mm head studs... i go to goulborn mc swapmeet every january .. always hot.....and the highway is littered with boiling or busted new falcon 6's.
They might be a nice car with "jack on the back"... but ask em to work hard in the heat with a van on ... and they go "Pop".


Oh yeah,,,, forget front wheel drive.

Regards
Reddo

[Deleted]

Forgot... you can include the "E" model fords as well.

Reddo

[RollyDog]

Di
The others are right. Forget the front wheel drives. A lot of my customers in the tyre shop have late model Falcons and are happy with them. The X Trails seem to be underated but would do the job ok. Similarly the owners seem happy with them but autos are hard on the front brake pads or so it seemed in the short time I was at a Nissan dealership. There seems to be a few Rav 4s towing vans these days but in the same class is the Kia Sportage. If you decide to go back a few years to save some $$$ the best bet would be the last of the EL model Falcons. There are still a few around with good ks and they are cheap. Wish I had the $ to get the baracuda off you. They are an old favourite of mine and my Sunbeam Rapier Fastbacks seem to have copied a few shapes in the design.
Rod G.

[bobt]

Hi Di

The best shot would be the Ford Falcon.. 2006/07 model is the BF. Don't buy the LPG only. Buy a petrol and get LPG added. I think the LPG install rebate still exists. This will give you a great range and the flexibility to resort to petrol if gas is not readily available. Ford do a 100,000k or 3 year new car warranty, so make sure it fits in this window. They are cheap at the auctions, buy a govt and NOT a white ex Police car...

Just to set the record straight... For the Ford Buffs....I tow with a V8 Common door... ;D ;D

....the Ford does a good job.... My ol'man has towed caravans for thousands of kilometers with LPG converted Falcons and never had a problem.........

[1954homemade]

Hi Guys,

Thanks sooooooooooo much for your replies. They are definately helping me. They have confirmed some for things for me as well as given me info I didn't know, so i'm very glad I asked.

Ray, Reddo & Rod - Ok so front wheel drives are a no go - therefore that discounts the Mitsuibishi 380. (One less model to think about).

Ray - thanks for the info on Rav 4 & X-Trail. Also thanks for the offer re another v8 for the Cuda, but don't worry. I do know someone that can re-do it for me, but I won't be keeping the car now anyway. By the way I meant to drop you an email this week on the other subject we were recently emailing about. But unfortunately I ran out of time. I'll try to drop you a line in the next day or two.

Reddo - Just trying to confirm what you mean, when you mentioned "any 6 cylinder falcons with an "A" as its first intial". Do you mean an A in the Vin number i.s. 6FPAAAJGSW7 etc or do you mean the model number, I have been looking at the BF Mk II XT Falcons, so far. So if you mean the A & E model numbers, then the BF's should be ok?

Geoff - Thanks for the offer of the Vicky and at only $50,000 you are a treasure. Shame it's the wrong shade of blue for my van !!!!!. I had forgotten about the additional cooler for the transmission, so thanks for mentioning that, i've added it to the list of must have's. Have been to pickles a couple of times, but so far most of their Falcon's are high km's i.e. ex taxi's. Will keep looking though.

melburorbust - Thanks for the info on the Magna Verada, I don't know of this model but will take a look and it.

Gordon - Thanks for the info, Re: the warranty and not getting one from an auction place. Take Pickles for instance - i've noticed that rather than giving you one, you can buy a 3 year or 5 year warranty if you want to. Are they worth the paper they are written on??? Good idea about hitching up the van - when I get to my shortlist, i'll do just that.

Rod - Thanks for the info on X-Trail, Rav 4s and Kia Sportage, I will investigate further Thanks for the info on the EL model Falcons, but no I don't want to be a car from 96-98. The newest car I have ever owned is 16 years old. I've decided that I have worked long and hard all my life and deserve something newer.

Bobt - So you think i'm on the right track as it is the BF Ford Falcon that i've been looking at. You mentioned not to buy straight gas. The reason I was thinking this way was because I thought that if the gas was factory fitted (or even already fitted) that any problems with the gas would have been ironed out already. I only have experience with older car and carbies rather than injected and so that's why I was steering away from dual fuel if poss. If we went on long trips with the Cuda we made sure that we had a bbq bottle in the boot just in case.

Yes I am hoping to get a car with some new car warranty left on it. I have been steering clear of Police cars.

So everyone, If I do get a dual fuel car like Bobt suggests. Do you have to keep swapping between the 2 fuels to keep everything running ok or do you say use 3 tanks of gas to 1 of petrol? Also does dual fuel really work well in the newer cars??

Thanks for all the replies - it's really helping me.

Kind regards
Di

[Geoff & Jude]

hi di

the bf sounds good to me. there are about 20 ex government with low milage (<50,000km) and factory warranty coming up for auction at pickles this monday 6th april at 3:00pm, worth going down if only to have a lookie see at the process. pickles auction

don't worry about dealer or auction house warranties if the car you buy still has factory warranty - factory warranty is soooooooo much better than any dealer can offer and there is virtually no argument when you want to use it. the outlet is being paid by the parent company so they very seldomly argue about the warranty costs (that's my experience anyway).

as far as the gas goes, my ute is factory 'gas only' and after 200,000km the only time it needed servicing was to clean the gas filters at about 180,000km.

if you end up with dual fuel, it's suggested you run on petrol from time to time to make sure the seals in the system remain wet and don't dry out and leak when you change back to petrol from gas.

(for any extra $2000 i'll repaint the crown to any colour you like).

geoff 'n jude

[RollyDog]

Di,
Geoff is spot on about the BF. A really smooth and comfortable car. I think Reddo may be referring to BA EA etc as any teething problems of a new series, ie BA have been worked out for the next models ie BF.

The Government auctions here seem to be fine with them offering a statuatory warranty and most seem good value for money.

Ex Police cars are Ok if you know the history. ie Country cars from one or two man stations are best as the car is only driven by one or two people who look after it more. Of late some car yards have been getting white VE Commodores, throwing a few stripes and alloy wheels on to dress them up a bit.

With the LPG / Fuel cars we run a half tank of fuel every 5 or so tanks of gas and both the ute and four wheel drive seem to run a bit better after that.
Just short list the cars and have a sit in them to see what is most comfortable for you and then do a google search on the make and model and put the word 'problems' after that. If a car has a bad history some forum site will show up on that.
Rod G.

[Geoff & Jude]

hi di

reddo was talking about the 'e' series, ea, eb etc and the 'au' series, au1, au2 etc but these are older than what you a looking at anyway.

geoff 'n jude

[Deleted]

Hi Di..
What Geoff and Jude said...


My eyes dont lie .
I have seen a lot of EA and EB 6 cyl falcons steaming away on the highway in 30 + degree days..while motoring past in one of "The generals" offerings from the 60s ..... ;D
something to do with that egg crate header tank and crap glue holding the plastic tank ends on .
The day Joel and i counted 4 with their bonnets up i came across number 5 and 6.
"5" was a wagon that had gone to retrieve number "6" with a car float...
Both where parked up on the shoulder of the road with No:5s bonnet up and hissing steam near the big yella dinosaur at Gosford..
Most appropriate i thought...

Choice is yours Di .
Reddo

[minicamper]

Hi Di,

to add my bit...

The gas/petrol rotation... Always a good idea to regularly run some petrol through the car if you have the dual option.
Gas is a "dry" fuel and provides no lubrication for the valves and valve stem seals. Modern cars have hardened valve seats now which was the main problem with using gas on older cars that did not.

Bare in mind - if you have dual fuel, you are getting a compromise in performance as the engine can't reach its optimum ability on one fuel without affecting the running on the other, so neither are as good as either on their own. Having said that, the latest gas systems come very close to recovering all that is traditionally lost in running on gas. My dad has a system that was fitted by Ford when he bought a BF as a second hand car from them. It starts the car on petrol and automatically switches to gas once there is a little bit of warmth in the system.

Gas only cars - well I have one. If you run out of gas, you can't just nick down the servo and get a jerry can of LPG to fill her up and get you going (don't even think of the BBQ bottle)
I had the Holden 308 especially built for towing, gas only, so no compromise.

I reckon, despite Reddo's boiling observations, as the old saying goes, "There's no substitute for cubic inches (or litres in modern speak)"

Why drive a smaller 4cyl and stress it, working it close to it's maximum ability, when you could do the same job with almost double the capacity and a lot less mechanical stress? Mechanical stress = premature death.

DON'T fall for the advertising of these newer Japanese tonka trucks with smaller diesel and petrol engines either. They are reaching the extremes of engineering to keep some reliability in them because they are physically not up to the mammoth task of hauling the caravan, and the boat and the tradesman trailer and everything else that was hitched on them in the ad. I've seen inside them and what happens to them..

I guess it's the best compromise/fit for you.

I wouldn't worry too much about the mechanical disasters though... I have seen all sorts of dead cars dragged into my mates engine rebuilding shop. Dead diesel Patrols, V8 jeeps, V6 Commodores and straight 6 Fords, Japanese utes. Just ensure that whatever it is, you get it checked out carefully and that it has a maintenance history - big problem lately is neglect, particularly in lower income areas..

Oh, and another "No FWD" vote from me too. Not for a full size van. My new diesel Golf creams it with the camper trailer, but I wouldn't go the full towing capacity is has.

Ever seen that footage from that Arabic country with the Donkey and the heavily overloaded cart, cart on the ground, Donkey suspended mid air?
Thats a FWD and Caravan... ;D

Cheers
Chris

[davenq]

sooooo........ what's happening with the fish?

.
.
.
or get a dodge dart swinger....yeh baby.......

[1954homemade]

Hi all,

Well after doing heaps of searching on the net and looking at numerous vehicles I have finally put a deposit on a car.

I feel a bit sorry for the Sales Rep, coz I don't think he has recovered as yet from dealing with me !!!!! ;D I slowly and surely kept working on him over the last 3 weeks and got thousands off the car aswell as heaps of inclusions (including a tow bar), so in the end I got it for a better price than the 4 cars I looked at at Pickles this weekend.

I suppose you want to know what I purchased. Drum roll please

I purchased a Blue 2007 Ford Falcon XT BF Mk II Factory LPG Auto. I pick it up on Thursday. I'll have a few days to get used to it just in time to give it a gentle run up to Canton Beach.

Thanks to everyone that came up with suggestions for me.

Kind regards
Di

[Deleted]

;D

Thats good news Di.
I bet you where starting to wander if ya would have a towcar in time for Canton.
Sounds like you are a bit of a terror..... ummmmm... terrier when it comes to negotiating a bargain price.

Hope it gives you years of sterling service.

Reddo

[1954homemade]

Yes Reddo, I was starting to wonder if I would have a car in time for Canton Beach.

I think both descriptions Terror and Terrier and very apt, especially when it comes to negotiating a bargain !!! ;D ;D

See you soon
Di

[Geoff & Jude]

good choice di.

this is hard to believe, but i recently took the factory fitted, dedicated gas falcon ute on a quick trip to newcastle and back using only expressways and taking into account the distance travelled, cost of gas per litre and cost of petrol per litre, the ute gave back an equivalent of 52 miles per gallon. ;D ;D ;D

not bad for a 6 cylinder falcon.

you're gunna save a motza in fuel costs.

as an aside, when i stopped using the victoria to drive to work each day and swapped to the ute, my fuel costs dropped from over $80 a week to $20 for the same km's.

(and it only cost me $1600 to do it).

geoff 'n jude

[1954homemade]

Hi Geoff & Jude,

Yes LPG is the way to go for saving money.

I've had LPG on the Barracuda for the last 4 or 5 years, so i'm used to that. Even with it having a V8 the economy wasn't bad.

Over the last 6 weeks I have been driving a Lancer on petrol and i've really noticed the difference - thankfully the petrol price is relatively cheap at present.

But i'll be glad to get back to LPG with the Falcon and also have the added bonus of air con and power steering aswell - luxury !!!!!

See you next week
Di

[whippy]

I agree with the LPG, I have had cars of LPG since the early 80's ignore these people who say there is a loss of power, it is negligible. It costs me at the moment $8.20 per 100 kilometres !!!!!