Lady Madonna takes a Dive

[Daggsey]

Been holding off posting this ........but might help others.

On the way from Coledale to Moruya, just out of Jervis Bay, 2 weeks before Christmas, this little "incident" occured...........





Very helpful guys from the local water authority who towed Madonna a couple of k's to a safer location..................




The cause.....................




This is the REALLY embarrassing part .........had to be rescued by Kingy in his Ffffffffff...ooo >:(rrrrrrrrrrduh.....OK, I've said it .........the really good part was he was towing the VALIANT, not the HOLDEN



This was the problem.......a light-weight towbar, possibly homemade............







The end result, Effacy is now fitted with a towbar constructed of square tubing with 6mm thick walls.......

The immediate reaction would be to blame the weight of Madonna (including the 2 batteries on the drawbar). However, I did reflect on what lead up to this incident........

The suspect towbar was successful for 17000 kms towing "Lady Madonna". The day before, I had hit an unmarked "storm drain" (bitumen) crossing a street in Berry. I reckon that probably caused an initial crack in the bar.

I have since seen a DVD at Kingy's showing a 100 Series Landcruiser towing an off-road Kedron caravan with a Hayman-Reece hitch........they broke the towbar after hitting a large dip on a gravel road (at a greater speed than me)..........their analysis was the stabiliser bars created so much pressure that the towbar simply cracked. I also have stabilisers fitted........a likely cause of what happened with Effacy.

A couple of points have come out of this excercise............

If you purchase an older towcar with a towbar fitted, it is almost impossible to tell how strong it is......in my case, the round tube bar was fully sealed at both ends.

If you fit stabilisers, especially with chains, how do you know what the optimum number links are to lift the bars? Is there a "rule of thumb" or just guess work like I've been doing?

The reason for fitting ride-stabilisers I guess is to "lift" the back end of your car so van & car ride level........of course all this relates back to weight.....what is in the van and what is in the boot of the tow vehicle.

At the end of the day, all ended well in this situation and I do thank Kingy ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D for travelling 130kms to our rescue.

Maybe a technical response from our resident engineer gurus, Kaybee and JBJ


Daggsey

[Daggsey]

G'day Col,

Definitely could have been a disaster........lucky we were on the (relatively) quiet road from Vincentia to Jervis Bay and not the M7 or Bruce Highway with a Kenworth up my backside

Daggsey

[Deleted]

Hi Daggsey.

Sorry to hear about this little mishap.
Pleased to hear no one was hurt...
to quote :
"I have since seen a DVD at Kingy's showing a 100 Series Landcruiser towing an off-road Kedron caravan with a Hayman-Reece hitch........they broke the towbar after hitting a large dip on a gravel road (at a greater speed than me)..........their analysis was the stabiliser bars created so much pressure that the towbar simply cracked. I also have stabilisers fitted........a likely cause of what happened with Effacy."

I aint gunna repeat what i have been saying for the past 4 years on here about load levelers putting stress on tow bars, goosenecks and towbar attaching points.

Looks like someone else is of the same belief as me.
The minute there is any downward pressure on those bars it is transferred onto the towhitch and its mounting points. given enough working up and down and the occasional hard wack like the old FC copped in Berry and eventually the weakest point will snap due to metal fatigue.
Once you build a new towbar... Beef the bum of the FC up some keeper springs or throw in a set of springs out of a commercial Holden .. van /ute .7 springs ....................
and if you must persist in using load levellers set them so they are ony just doing thier job. Dont heave 'em up on the chains to the second or third link from the top.
If they are set lightly they will do thier job when you come across something like you hit oin Berry without snapping things in halves.

I rest my case...... I know the defenders of theses gadgets will chime in now and dump it on me....

Other thing that you mentioned is the weight of Lady Madonna.
Have you weighed her full loaded??? what is her towball weight??
You might be in for a shock when ya find out exactly how much the old Holden is lugging around.

Cover Madonnas ears.. she probably didnt want to hear that she is overweight......

I will let you go back and watch the DVD again and decide what you want to do .

Once again... glad no onre was hurt... chin up old chap.

Reddo

[sutcac]

.........all of us who have been up close and personal with the lovely Lady Madonna know that she is definitely a tad overweight in her "around australia " guise................. ...

............I'm with The Red man on this one ............................run her over the nearest weighbridge mate...............might be shocked to find out what she's actually carrying? .............may pay to check out structural strength of drawbar/chassis...........which I guess you've already done. ...................not tryin' to be a smarty................but your personal safety is paramount ,hey?.




.......................

............the new 6mm square bar sounds as if it'll do the job...............extra springs /helper springs might be an asset too.. ........

...........glad to hear that the mishap didn't result in any personal injury to either youself or Lorraine.. .
..........now that it's all sorted and repaired ...........you'll have more spare time to update the Lady Madonnas travels thread !!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Cheers Sutcac.

[cobber]

G'day Daggsey,

Yep.... glad you got out of that unscathed, could have been bad.

I realise you have worked out the cause of the problem... to much tow ball weight then... to much stabiliser bar tension to compensate.

But out of it comes something else we can all check for...... the tow bar I had made for my FJ back in 1992/3 was made by a bloke who specialised in Tow Bars.
It's made out of 1 ¾'' square section..... so does this indicate that pros don't usually use tube unless it is really heavy gauge, and if anybody has a tow bar made of round tube they should have it checked out by somebody who knows what he is doing to make sure it's not a backyard “she'll be right mate.... just give us a carton” type of tow bar

There is always the chance something can go wrong towing a 'van...... go slow is the go .

Cobber.

[Daggsey]

Thanks for the input guys................

A couple of things I'm aware of.........

The load I am pulling is probably more than normal due to the extended journey and the fact that I am also carrying my "tools of trade" with me.

I am aware that the combined weight of the 2 batteries on the drawbar is about 70kgs.

"Effacy" has beefed up suspension.........extra spring leaves, high performance Pedders shock absorbers and a large torsion bar. Without the ride-levellers fitted, there is certainly still plenty of tyre clearance.

My understanding of the levellers was to also stop sideways swaying of your van, not necessarily a problem if you are going away for a weekend with minimal gear on board. Stopping a van from swaying from side to side is probably more an issue for me, and yes, I am aware of the need for packing a van correctly and distributing the load evenly.

I know when I tow my Globetrotter with my EJ which has standard (soft) suspension, the levellers help both issues, both levelling and anti-sway, so I don't think they're totally useless.

My understanding is that as torsion is increased on the levellers, so weight is distributed to the front of your car, which in turn contributes to better stearing and handling and consequently less sway of your caravan. Because older cars have older engineering of the steering components, this is probably more important when towing.

The chassis on "Lady Madonna" is probably one of the contributors to it's weight........it is 3" x 2" square tubing that appears to have a wall thickness of about 4mm. "Madonna" empty weighs in at 900kgs, a far cry from the Globetrotter's 620kgs, and probably heavier than most 12' caravans out there (probably only beaten by a Baravan).

My guess with the towbar is that it was designed to tow a 6 x 4 box trailer.......remember the anchor bolts that broke on the way to Mt Gambier......they were mild steel, not high tensile.

Yes Clyde, I will get Madonna weighed, but I guess if we all learn something from these experiences as we travel down the path of vintage vanning, that is what this site is all about (other than the people ;D ;D ;D ;D)

Daggsey

[bigkel]

looks like that broken sharp bit of pipe nearly made its way through the petrol tank, that would have been good to look in your mirror and see a ball of flame following you up the road,( how many V/Ver's carry a good quality fire extinguisher for those small under bonnet petrol fires ) i have fitted 3 tow bars recently on ( 2 on full size pontiacs & 1 on a 58 chev ) 50mm square with 5 mm walls, with reese hitch style square fitting,where the tow bar attaches to the car i also plate the chassis on the other side & bolt through the 3 layers , i think my tow bars are a little over engineered ,,,, but i don't have to worry about them!!!!

[willyn]

Hi Carrots and Daggsey
Hey you guys no more dare devil stuff
yep same thing from Lyn and Will the main thing was no injury to both of you
all is well that ends well

have a safe journey the rest of the way

Will and Lyn

[1954homemade]

Dear Daggsey and Carrots,

Soooooooooooooooo glad that you both are ok , the rest is just an inconvenience .

All the best
Diane