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Post by getaway on Dec 19, 2007 16:55:18 GMT 10
I have asked a few technical questions on the "Classic Caravans" site but unfortunately it would appear it is sometimes weeks before anybody has a look! So I shall try my luck here.
Re batteries. I have asked a lot of people (experts in the battery field) and of course friends and other folk and keep getting conflicting advice. Needless to say, every battery seller claims their product is the best and everything else is rubbish!
I am looking for (I think) a deep cycle battery approx 75 amp hour. To run my 40 Litre Engel portable fridge whilst we are stationary at a camping spot. Some people say an ordinary car battery will do. Others have suggested I need a 200 amp hour battery! Very confusing to the inexperienced (like myself).
I intend to have fitted, a dual battery system. Just need some advice hopefully from someone who has a dual battery system fitted.
What is the best battery to suit my needs? Brand, amp hour rating. Wet cell, gel?
Any help/advice would be very much appreciated. It's a minefield out there and not everybody is telling the truth!
Mick.
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Post by Roehm3108 on Dec 19, 2007 19:55:33 GMT 10
Hi Mick My son-in-law (campboy) has the same probs on the classic link (that'll teach him not getting a vintage van instead ). Your question about batteries is a big one! Before all else, you really need to ask yourself what style of camping you will be doing. Are you planning to go really bush for a week at a time or just overnight somewhere? Will you stay in caravan parks, where you will be able to use the park power supply? What recharging appliances will you have with you to top up the battery when away? Will you connect it to your car system so that it charges when travelling? Will you carry a genny? Will you trickle charge it during the day with solar when camping? Then you will need to ask yourself what you need the battery for - you say to drive the Engel fridge. What about other appliances and lighting? Add up what the total ampage will be for the appliances. Then divide that answer into the ampage per hour rating of the battery. The result will be the number of hours that battery will last for those appliances before you need to recharge the battery. Say, for examply, if you are driving the fridge only and it draws 3 amps. You have a 75 amp hour battery. Divide the fridge ampage into the battery capacity, and the result will be 25 hours. That is the number of hours your battery will last running the fridge before you need to recharge it in some way. Will that be enough for you? If not, get a bigger amp-hour rating battery. That's a layperson explanation. You will want a battery that will hold its charge when standing idle, so a deep cycle would always be reconmmended. To my mind (my personal opinion really) a gel battery is also good for my style of camping. I use a sealed motor cycle battery on my Propert folding van, cos I only want it for lighting, which draws bugger-all. I use a Chescold 3 way fridge and have it on gas when camping. I have a 240 volt 1 amp trickle charger which automatically charges that battery if I am in a caravan park and hooked up to their power, as well as being connected to the car alternator when travelling. I also have a little solar trickler when I do go bush or leave the van at home and want to maintain an ongoing charge, which maintains the battery in peak charge all the time. Running the dual battery system you talk about will always maintain your battery in peak charge storage. You can then run a line to your van via an Anderson plug connector and connect to your fridge and lights etc. Hope this hasn't muddied the water further for you. Cheers Ray
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2007 20:29:20 GMT 10
Hi Mick I use to have an Chescold 12v/240v/gas freezer mounted in the back of a 4 X4 hi lux ute. I chose a freezer becuase you can regulate them back to fridge temp settings, whereas a fridge you can only crank it up to flat out and hope it keeps things cold in the middle of summer. I had a dual battery set up which basically was a battery set up on either side of the engine bay. The wire from the alternator that went to the battery was redirected to the centre terminal of a diode block with three terminals. from there i ran a lead the same thickness as the alternator lead to either side battery positive terminal. I fitted two 70 Amp Hour deep cycle ( wet cel) batterys. It is critical that both batterys be the same size, amp hour , cold crank capacity and the same condition. Dont care what brand ya wanna use. Just because some cost more than others doesnt mean ya get more than the others. If one is a smaller rated battery or in doubtful condition e.g: older... it will draw more current from the alternator than the good/bigger one trying to stay "healthy" and eventually overheat and cook itself. Best to fit 2 brand newies when installing this set up. They use deep cycle batterys in electric fork lifts etc because they handle being discharged and recharge frequently and better than your normal plain jane off the shelf car battery.. The beauty of the diode splitter box is you can pull up camping and not worry about fiddling with a big isolator switch with settings for battery 1 , 2, both or none, to isloate the car battery from the circuit. You have probably seen these big black round switches in boats etc ?The diode block prevents the fridge cicuit from drawing from your standard car circ and battery.\ This means you can leave your fridge running overnight without fear of the car not starting the next day. If you keep your 12v fridge out of direct sunlight/ heat, only open it after you have decided exactly what you want out of it , store pre frozen meat in it. You will get around 3 days continuous running before the battery gives up. If possible run the fridge on LPG once you get to where you are staying for a few days. ( thats if its a 3 way fridge or freezer) Word of warning . in a DC circuit current increases as voltage decreases. So as the battery drains down , the fridge "sucks harder" to keep running. With an increase in amps comes an increase in heat. Hence the lead, plug and outlet get hot which in turn can melt things together. Happened to me on fraser Island back about 1983. Ask your auto lecko about a low voltage cut out device so that you dont completely flatten the battery and fry the guts of the battery and the fridge lead... or worse still set fire to your car or van. It use to take about 3 or 4 hours driving ( not idling) to fully recharge the fridge battery. bearing in mind it was only a small jappo alternator on the hilux. Bigger cars may have higher charging rate alternators than the 4 banger jap utes. Use a good thick lead from the positive terminal of your fridge battery to your fridge outlet especially if it is a long way from the battery. I think from meory i had an old welding or jumper lead about 10 or 16mm sq With DC electrical circs bigger is better ( less resistance). There is obviuosly more learned people than this bonehead out there . I am only stating what i know from my own experiences. If all else fails ... there is always the good old malleys tin esky and a bag of ice to keep your beer and prawns cold. ;D Good luck Reddo
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Post by getaway on Dec 20, 2007 5:39:42 GMT 10
Thanks guys for the very informative response!
Our intentions are (when camping) to be away for approx 1-2 weeks at a time. More than likely in a "National Park" so generators are out of the question.
I have a "C Tek 7000" smart battery charger and access to 240 volt power at a general store. Rang owner and he kindly agreed to me leaving a battery overnight for the purpose of recharge.
So I figured if I bought 2 deep cycle batteries, I can just swap them over when first one is discharged replace it with the fully charged 2nd battery whilst the 1st one is being charged up again.
Hopefully this will give us enough power to last our intended time frame when camping.
Having said that, I guess "bigger is better" and on the strength of that seriously consider a 200 amp/hour battery set. X 2.
Once again, many thanks for the input. Your advice has certainly cleared up a few issues.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2007 6:17:08 GMT 10
Hey Mick. Why not get away from all this battery stuff ( extra weight to lug around) just buy a 3 way fridge and run it on a 10kg gas bottle . you will get almost 2 weeks out of a bottle. The money you intend spending on mega sized batterys could be redirected into the cost of a 3 way fridge. You could always pension off your existing fridge to offset the cost of the new fridge( or freezer) No heading back to the general store to play swappys every 3rd day either. Reddo
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2007 9:12:26 GMT 10
This may come as a bit of a shock to the average Mexican Kaybeans but man has been burning fossil fuels to make light since he stopped dragging his knuckles around the cave. ;D ;D I bet kaybee was one of those kids that got a $10 train set for Christmas and his parents spent $100 on "AA" batterys in the first week. This has scarred him for life and he cannot accept that methylated spirits, kero, petrol, diesel, wood, coal, steam and LPG are acceptable forms of fuel to propel, light up and warm things that we use every day. ;D ;D ;D ;D He is currently experimenting with termites in an effort to lighten his house... it appears to be working a treat Reddo
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Post by Roehm3108 on Dec 20, 2007 11:35:33 GMT 10
Nah, glow-worms are the go for night lighting!!!! Ray
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2007 13:27:41 GMT 10
Aaaaaaahhhhh of course Ray Glow worms ;D... Would they be the ones with the 200 amp hour dual batterys or the genuine original kerosene powered ones with the long wicks Reddo
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Post by getaway on Dec 20, 2007 18:22:18 GMT 10
Thanks again for the replies guys.
The van fridge died. We are having a Dometic RM 2350 installed in the new year. The 40 litre Engel is for my "beer".
Power consumption for the Engel is 0.5-2.5 amps. So I figure if I get a 200 amp/hour battery I should get a "running time" of 80 hours. Does this sound correct? May not even need a spare battery!
Mick.
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Post by Roehm3108 on Dec 20, 2007 19:42:04 GMT 10
Mick, if you spend another $50 you could buy a small solar trickler and extend your time by having that running during the day. Ray
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Post by getaway on Dec 21, 2007 4:03:33 GMT 10
Ray, we have considered "solar" but may not suit the time of year that we go away. We go away every winter June/July. Work committments (wife and I) don't allow holidays during the summer months.
Whilst there is some sunshine about it has no heat in it. We live in Elmore (Vic) and usually travle up to the Hattah national park or Nangilloc on the Murray.
Last night I checked out my tow vehicle (2000 Ford courier twin cab ute turbo diesel) no room underneath and I don't wish to use the rear tub load space area so that limits me to an "engine bay" installation for the 2nd battery (deep cycle).
Not a lot of available room for a 2nd battery. So I think I will be limited to something like a 75 amp/hour battery. May have to get another deep cycle battery to exchange whilst the first one is getting recharged. This in itself is not a big deal. Reduction in battery size owing to placement constraints.
Mick.
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Post by cobber on Dec 22, 2007 7:40:35 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2007 19:51:33 GMT 10
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Post by minicamper on Dec 24, 2007 9:05:05 GMT 10
Hi Mick,
If I could add my experience, it may help. I tried to establish the exact same thing. What i thought was the right thing to do based on all the same sorts of answers you have been given, was get a deep cycle battery. After a year it was dead. Cause of death, the roof motor.. I did a bit of internet research as i own 7 cars and was getting sick of battery problems and what I discovered was that deep cycles are designed to withstand being run flat and recharged more than a normal car battery, HOWEVER, they do not like having large demands put on them. Mine powered a motor to raise the camper roof and then just lights and a small fridge like you mention. Car batteries are designed to handle large drains on them (when starting) but HATE being run flat, apparently running a normal car battery dead flat 2 or 3 times is enough to kill it. 80% of car batteries never make the accepted 5 year life span. So, i'd say get a deep cycle if its only for the fridge and lights, a gel type is supposed to reduce or remove sulphating of batteries which is the checmical cause of death. The size as previously mentioned depends on your requirements. Whatever you do, find some way to recharge it whilst in use if possible, or at the very least, make sure it is recharged once home and maintained throughout the year witha trickle charger. Cheers Chris
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Post by getaway on Dec 25, 2007 5:20:08 GMT 10
Thanks Chris.
I will get a "Gel type deep cycle battery".
Just got to find one that will fit the very limited space I have available in my engine bay.
I have a "smart charger" C Tek 7000. May have to get a small generator.
Mick.
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