Can someone confirm Gertie is home built?

[cardygeorge]

Hi there! This is my first post on this forum and I'm hoping all the experts can help us with identifying the origins of our little Gertie.

She was given to us by my Grandfather nearly two years ago. As she hasn't been registered since the late nineties the original intention was to turn her into an extra kids room/guest room for our interstate family. At the time I suggested to my wife (Harriet) that we could rebuild Gertie and return her to holiday duties, which was almost immediately relegated to the Too Hard Basket. A chance encounter at a Hot-Rod show'n'shine with an owner of a van of similar age and condition showed Harriet just what was involved and after numerous assurances of my ability to take on the work, we are now well and truly into the process of rebuilding.

So, whilst we're not restoring Gertie per se, we are interested in her heritage and where she fits in history. We've worked out that she might be inspired by a 1930's/1940's Home Beautiful Magazine article, as seen here on Our Touring Past. After Harriet visited the great folks at the V V Grand Parade in Adelaide a few weeks back, we now also think that she was built in the mid to late 50's as she has Aluminium skin over a steel tubing framework.

The all important pictures:
The Better Half, the Van and the "temporary" tug


The thought from the guys at the Grand Parade is she may be based on a Windmill van


Panel attachment


Power Inlet


Kitchen


Dresser(?)


Under seat storage


Spice Rack, note the wiring in the background


When caravans get Gastro


Under the skin


Chassis


Deconstruction nearly complete

[Deleted]

She is a South Australian built Rowevan.

[Roehm3108]

I thought that by now cobber would have jumped onto this thread. But maybe he too is a little thrown by your van.

Certainly has got touches of the HB van and even the Windmill in its styling. I can also understand jg33 suggesting Rowvan, due to what looks like a double camber roofline. What is that roof material?

But that chassis is un-Rowvan-like as is the steel framing. Almost looks like the builder was a very proficient welder (aircraft builder perhaps?) The steel cladding also point along those lines.

Personally I reckon she is home-built - perhaps using the HB design as a guide.

[cardygeorge]

Thanks Guys, as you can see there's enough clues to suggest many different manufacturers.

The roof is aluminium too, the dodgy condition of the paint makes it look like old fabric from a distance. I initially thought the skin was galvanised sheet, but a magnet won't stick.

The chassis is great condition for its age, the only crack in it is just in front of the drivers side wheel (you can see it in the photo above).

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Cardygeorge,

I was one of the vintage vanners who met Harriet at the SA caravan & camping show a fortnight ago. It's great to see that you've joined the forum, and also to see some more pics of Gertie.

Gertie is certainly an interesting van and a bit of a puzzle - but then personally I enjoy puzzles, especially V V ones! . For what they're worth, my thoughts are as follows:

• The design - shape, profile, placement of windows, etc - suggests a 30's van.
  
• As you have suggested, the design is very similar to the 1930's design for the 'Home Beautiful' van. It is also somewhat reminiscent of a Windmill, but there also quite a few differences, so I am inclined to think that the HB design may possibly have provided the inspiration for Gertie.
  
• With all due respect to JG33, I agree with Roehm that the van is not a Rowvan for a whole host of reasons as I think you'll see if you look at the Rowvan thread in the Down History Lane section.
  
• Aluminium cladding only began to be widely used for vans in Australia in the mid to late 50's BUT some home builders experimented with aluminium cladding as early as the mid-30's, so the cladding does not necessarily rule out a 30's build date.
  
• If the frame was wood, it might be case closed, but it is steel. There are quite a few examples of vans built with steel frames by home builders in the very early 50's, and some info about a commercial van manufacturer building vans with a steel frame at the very end of WW2. I think that suggests that Gertie could still have been built in the 40's and possibly in the 30's - if the expertise existed in 1945, I presume it existed in the late 30's.
  
• The aluminium window frames are the biggest problem for a 30's or 40's build date. They look more modern than that, and also aluminium windows weren't commonly used on vans until the mid-50's. All the same, the windows on Gertie also look as if they could be home made. So maybe they were a later addition/replacement.
  
• Looking at the internal fittings - construction and design - the electrics, and the fact that there apparently was no internal lining, suggests home built.

So what am I saying? My gut feeling is that Gertie is a home built van from the 30's or 40's with some more modern additions/changes.

I presume your grandfather hasn't given you any clues as to when he acquired the van, or from whom? Maybe he just wants/wanted to leave you guessing and intrigued!

I look forward to seeing how you go about rebuilding Gertie. Please keep posting on the forum as the project proceeds - I'm sure that quite a few of us will enjoy the story as it unfolds.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi again Cardygeorge,

While looking for something else just now, I noted that Wolfenden was producing vans with a welded steel frame in 1937. I'm not suggesting that your van is a Wolfenden (it is quite a different design), but that confirms that there is no reason why Gertie couldn't have been built in the 30's.

More info to add to the puzzle!

Don Ricardo

[Roehm3108]

Aluminium roof? Whoever built/designed that roof was VERY clever, to calculate the double camber slope tolerance before the material would "crinkle" or "wrinkle", or whatever the technical term for it might be. ;D ;D ;D

[JBJ]

Hi All,

For what little its worth, I believe Gertie is homebuilt. A lot of very competent people built one of vans in older days, & it doesnt appear to be built in the style of the mainstream van construction.

Any competent vehicle coach builder ( trade terminology for their skills) could roll a double camber into a flat thin sheet of aluminium or steel using what is called an " English Wheel". ( Google the english wheel to find out how it works).

The English Wheel is relatively uncommon, but enough of them are in use to for it to be a possibilty in a one off caravan construction. It puts a crown ( or dome) into the panels similar to an older car roof panel.
The guy that rebuilt my Dodge panels used the english wheel to make many sections that needed compound curves.

JBJ

[cardygeorge]

Mar 11, 2013 22:08:02 GMT 10 Don Ricardo said:

I presume your grandfather hasn't given you any clues as to when he acquired the van, or from whom? Maybe he just wants/wanted to leave you guessing and intrigued!

He can't give us any details at all, Alzheimer's unfortunately. He's still functional and independent, but can't remember last week, let alone two years. Or even where the rego papers are...... The spot on the draw bar where he engraved the identification number has rusted out to a gaping hole so no clues there either.

I feel a bit bad for ripping out the interior now. But knowing my Grandfathers craftsmanship (close enough is good enough ) I think she'd been re-configured any way. The electrics weren't exactly safe to boot.

Roehm - The Aluminium sheet is much much thinner than the walls, so i think you're right, whoever built her knew exactly what they were doing.

Personally, I'm still getting my head around how old Gertie really is. I don't know who had her before dear old Poppy, but I know he had her for 20 years, and most definitely NOT under cover. For her to be in the condition she's in is just amazing. And only 1 crack in the chassis OR frame? I wish I knew who built it just to shake his/her hand.