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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 15, 2010 9:23:55 GMT 10
Well after looking around for quite a while we finally bit the bullet and won a van on eBay – a Skyline bond wood with aluminium roof – I guess this puts me in two camps!!  From what I understand it might make dating a little easier but I will leave that to someone else (hopefully) to date. So the first step was to get the van home from Port Macquarie, I am just north of Brisbane. After contacting the seller he advised the best bet was to trailer the van home because the wheel bearings were unknown and lights out, etc etc … – I thought no problem as I do normally have access to a car trailer. This didn’t work out so my options were to hire a trailer or because it sounded like fairly basic issues that could be fixed relatively easily maybe it could be towed home.  Another phone call to the seller to check out this possibility and I decided this could be a simpler option and less expensive in the long run – the work needed doing anyway so why not? So I set off with my “rescue kit” with the plan B being to hire a trailer locally and take it to my brothers place in Grafton. The “rescue kit”:  A bit of guess work about what might be needed but didn’t do too bad – I needed to borrow a file from the seller and buy D shackles (of course I have several at home  ) but otherwise had everything I needed. I went on the principle of take everything you can think of and you won’t need it – didn’t quite work out that way but still … Talking to the seller he said it has a smaller tow ball, so I thought better off trying to source a smaller tow ball in Brisbane rather than Port Macquarie so a small detour found a brand new 48mm tow ball  , more on this later:  So set off on the Wednesday for a stop over to see my brother in Grafton, spotted this on the way at the Gold Coast, anyone we know?  Arrived bright eyed and bushy tailed at the sellers place on the Thursday, and checked out the work needed. Tow ball first, hitch up and the ball is way too small, doesn’t even go close to securing  . Hmmm, try the 50 mm ball; well it locks, sort of, but rattles like a steam train  . Then look at the hitch and written on it is  :  Hmmm 2 ¼” Ok, so I will try and get a 2 ¼” tow ball … yeah right no way known, nothing for it but to get a new hitch, I lucked in here as the new hitch was only a few millimetres out from the original as far as bolt spacing goes; a few minutes with a round file and done .  So if anyone is after a BRAND NEW 48mm tow ball let me know – it owes me $20!! Next thing to sort out was lights; no problem I have an electrical background so took about an hour to chase everything through, just had to replace rear lights as they were faded and there was no way it would pass a pink slip . Then on to wheels, bearings and tyres – jack up the first side and wheel spins free as a bird, no noises, nothing! You beauty! Jack up other side same thing, just the slightest of rumbles but no worries. But to be safe I pulled them off, cleaned them out and repacked with new grease .  Wheels and tyres were a different story:   This became my Achilles heel; no one in Port Macquarie stocks 13” tyres!!! Nothing for it but to wait overnight for them to arrive; still, there ARE worse places to be stuck overnight …     Needed one new wheel as well, turns out they are early Holden (bonus) so no problem, the tyre place had one out the back! While messing around with the tow ball stuck my head under the back of the tow car and saw this :  WHAT THE ….. Turns out that the mob that did the last wheel alignment stripped the lock nut on the rear camber adjuster, it drifted out of alignment and destroyed two rear tyres in very short order  . Will be paying them a visit upon my return… So the trip for new tyres turned into a bit more than I bargained for! Getting new boots:  On to the pink slip, keep your fingers crossed:  No worries :  Had to put something in for year and VIN, so guessed the year and went with the number on the drawbar 958A. Then off to the RTA:  Only at the RTA for half an hour !!!! Final “pre flight” checks done, time to hit the road.  Very uneventful trip home (phew) and I think looks great behind the tow car to be :  Plans from here are to wire brush and repaint the chassis, refurbish the axle and spring assembly, replace front and rear ply, repaint exterior, and register. There are heaps of little things that need doing like window attachments and latches, fridge, and stove but basically the van is usable and will be registered asap to do just that! Aiming for the SEQ trip to Lennox Head, see you soon! Cheers, Doug and Tracy. |
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Post by Swellwillys on Nov 15, 2010 10:11:20 GMT 10
Enjoyed your story, enjoy the ride !
Swellwillys
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Post by sutcac on Nov 15, 2010 10:25:50 GMT 10
Love the recovery stories with piccies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for taking the time to post it up.
Look forward to catching up at Lennox
Cheers , Sutcacs
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 15, 2010 11:25:38 GMT 10
G'day Doug, Nice recovery effort there! ;D No doubt you set off from home in a positive frame of mind. I can't see any sticks of dynamite or a sledgehammer in amongst the recovery stuff in your boot, so you obviously didn't expect the worst.   We talked elsewhere on the forum recently about your van looking like a modified Franklin "Premier" model. Skyline were not unknown for putting their name on other brands of vans, however in the case of your van, something is slightly different. Here's a couple of photos of Franklin Premiers from the early 1960s. Notice how the roof comes down and meets the top of the front window frame in a continuous line, whereas on your van the roof curves back in above the window...   Let's assume for the moment that your van was indeed built in the Franklin factory. Your chassis number of 958A would fit into the Franklin chassis number series used at the start of the 1960s. Here's a photo of chassis number 716A...  I haven't collected enough examples from the early 1960s to pinpoint the chassis numbers with any accuracy. At this stage I'm adding 2 and 2 together to get 5, but I think the series ending in "A" is from 1961. With the bondwood sides on your van, it will be from somewhere around that time period. cheers, Al. |
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Post by cobber on Nov 15, 2010 11:35:52 GMT 10
G'day Doug 'n Tracy, Good story... that's how all recovery operations should pan out.... bit of planing.... bit of preparation.... bit of luck and all's good. Don't chuck that 48mm ball what ever you do. People who have the old "Locktite" or "Newcastle safety hitch" coupling (and want to keep it... as they should ) would like to get hold of that ball. Cobber. |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 15, 2010 12:57:58 GMT 10
Hi all thanks for your posts, I am going to put myself under some pressure and book in for Lennox Head – pretty sure getting the van registered won’t be a problem but can’t say how far along with fixing stuff up it will be. Still we have a pretty good camping background so even where we are at is pure luxury! I would be keen to find out the history and origins of the old girl (are vans boys or girls?) so thought some more pics might be in order and (hopefully) might help in dating. To me, the door is a bit unusual, it seems quite narrow at 450mm and has a folded metal cover over the opening with a heavy mesh behind it – haven’t seen this before on the forum (or anywhere else, but I am pretty new to the vintage van scene of course – this IS my first!).   It is not double skinned on the sides but seems to be front and back ….  Stabiliser attachment, I would be interested in finding out what the rest of the system looks like, it would look good to have a period set up.  Chassis number, is this typical of Franklins, Franklin1? By that I mean the method of putting it on, and the fact the A is smaller than the numbers.  Jacking point through the side of the bond wood  Original (?) wheel Hubs use bolts rather than studs ...  Replaced wheel (they said off HT Holden) I hope the shape is just the picture or they sold me a dud!!! Didn't notice any vibrations ...  Stabiliser has wheels for if the bum drags on the road  Folded metal water tank (might have a small leak)  Drop axle  Double rear window – could this be a replacement? It just doesn’t seem quite right to me with the triple front window …  Close up of the window profile at the front, quite agricultural how the trim has been bent to shape   Logo, would be keen to get this reproduced…  Square framed middle window  The Laminex reminds me of the Laminex in my parents old Viscount Ambassador I remember as a kid  Rounded wardrobe  Kitchen looks untouched to my eye, looks to have had plain brown vynil tiles prior to the checks.  Stove (original??)  Window fittings   Fridge, is originally gas and includes a three page typed set of instructions for lighting! We would be interested in getting this revamped with a 12/240V guts in the old carcass.  Thanks again for your interest and hopefully this might help someone dating this van. So far we think we will go with Franklin and say 1961 till I know better ... Cheers, Doug & Tracy. |
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 15, 2010 19:37:39 GMT 10
G'day Doug & Tracey, Wow!! Certainly some "interesting features" on your van! Should be many pleasurable hours sorting through the list of things to do. Your suspicions are right about the rear window. It's a later addition from the mid-1970s. The grey plastic covers on the outside of the window frame are the giveaway. They cover the bracket arms for the wind-out mechanism. Most likely the van would have originally had a one-piece window with rubber surround, like this van...  ...which is the same van with the chassis number of 716A, and is welded the same way as yours...  Those edge mouldings certainly are interesting where they've had numerous cuts made in them to allow them to be bent around the curves. I must confess I've never studied edge mouldings closely in the past, but I can't say I've seen them done like this before. Rather mysterious way of doing it. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 19:56:48 GMT 10
My goodness,thought I had seen this van somewhere before!
wonthaggicaravans.com.au!
Cheers
hughdeani
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 15, 2010 21:11:29 GMT 10
Thanks Al for your input it certainly seems to come from the Franklin family; there just remains why the difference in the front window treatment? Could this represent a model variation in the Franklin line up or do you think Skyline might have done a bit of tinkering to get some sort of model differentiation?
Hughdeani thanks for that I've dropped them an email in case they can provide any other info on the van's history.
Cheers, Doug.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 15, 2010 21:26:00 GMT 10
Hi Cruisindoug and Franklin1, Al has said what I was going to say regarding the back window on your van, but now that you've shown us some shots of it I think it has probably had a few more modifications as well. I reckon the front window with the square corners and aluminium frame that is different to the other windows is also a replacement. Does it still open? The other thing that has been modified is the door. It's possible that the original had a stable door arrangement, but the heavy mesh, etc, is definitely non-standard. Great van though. I hope your really enjoy it. Looks great behind the FJ ute! Don Ricardo |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 15, 2010 21:41:16 GMT 10
Thanks Don for your input too.
The square front window is the only one that is square and the Premier Franklins have rounded windows, so there is a fair chance its not original too I guess. It does still open but has got a broken section on the near side around the hinge which means its not very secure - its on the list of stuff to fix.
I thought the door was out of place too - its also on the list!
Weare very happy with it and look forward to using it regularly. South East Queensland is blessed with plenty of short trip opportunities, and we plan on using them!
Cheers, Doug and Tracy.
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 15, 2010 22:21:13 GMT 10
I think the front window might actually be original. This photo of a couple of other Franklins from around the same time period shows a square front window and rounded side windows...  The cuts in the aluminium edge moulding have me perplexed. The Skyline sticker looks like it was "factory fitted" and is on the curved section of the roof, which suggests the roof curve was a factory design. But I'm finding it difficult to believe Geoff Robertson (the Franklin originator) would accept that moulding as a "quality job", particularly as he'd been in business for nine years by the time your van was built. The rounded aluminium window frames are proof that aluminium could be bent in a neat curve, so why would you then have to make cuts in the edge moulding? No, something is not quite right here, but I don't know what it is.  No doubt as you explore your van more closely, there may be some evidence of "tampering" with various parts of the van, which will shed a bit more light on its history. cheers, Al. |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 16, 2010 17:54:18 GMT 10
Thanks for your thoughts Al, I was wondering if it was typical of Franklins (and therefore my Skyline) to have no dividers whatsoever in the overhead cupboards? Mine doesn't and there is no lining to the roof either - should make leak spotting around the edges easy! Also, the hinges may have been common too (between Franklin and Skyline), all the hinges except the wardrobe look like this (and have slotted screws though they haven't been lined up!):  The Wardrobe looks like this (and has some slotted, some phillips head screws), sorry about the photo, running out of light, but you can see they have a different profile:  I'm guessing that the Wardrobe hinges may have been changed at some stage? Or do you think they are different style because they had to be bigger. The front window is missing its catches, though you can see where the rivets go, and they are the same type as the rest of the windows so maybe it is original. Cheers Doug & Tracy |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 18, 2010 16:57:53 GMT 10
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 25, 2010 16:37:14 GMT 10
Preparing for the chassis to be sandblasted on Monday, so pulled the water tank out for access ... might be a bit beyond repair! ![]() i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd427/cruisin_doug/Van Photos/PIC_1200.jpg[/IMG] The stabilisers are still working though after a little WD40, they seem a bit bent though so will look at more closely after sandblasting to see what needs doing for a refurb. ![]() i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd427/cruisin_doug/Van Photos/PIC_1198.jpg[/IMG] Also off to get weighed (thats the van!!) on Monday - will almost certainly go for a braked axle but still weighing up the pros and cons of which system. We are also missing a jack for the van, it fits into a round tube that pokes out of the side of the bondwood just in front of the wheel arch (theres a photo further up the thread that shows where it fits), would anyone happen to have a spare they would be willing to part with??? Catch you later Doug & Tracy. |
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 26, 2010 10:40:31 GMT 10
G'day Doug, Here's a couple of links to that other Franklin van with the 716A chassis number... just brought a 1959 franklin van59 franklin repairsI have some other photos of this van showing more of the inside if you want me to send them to you. I can't remember who owned the van before rayboy bought it, but there are other threads on the forum from the previous owner of this van, showing more inside photos. I think the hinges on your wardrobe have probably been changed. You'll most likely find the original screw holes under the larger hinge flaps. If you don't have any luck sourcing an original jack for the van, the sidewinder types pop up on that unmentionable site from time to time. Here's a couple of listings that recently finished... CARAVAN SIDEWIND JACK 1100 KGSide winder highlift caravan jackand this listing that's still current... Parking/Leveling Jacks/Stands (These are located in my region, so I'm available to help if required ) In regards to the water tank, surely a couple of pack of chewing gum and a couple of hours of pleasurable chewing should sort out most of the holes in the tank?? cheers, Al. |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 26, 2010 15:29:04 GMT 10
Thanks Al I have been looking out for that van in the member's ablums but hadn't come accross it yet, any other photos would be appreciated.While we don't intend getting too carried away with a full scale restoration (we will be doing some upgrades) we would like to keep in the period where possible. Thanks for your thoughts on the wardrobe hinges - do the fittings and fitout generally gel to you as being a rebadged Franklin?? Or were they fairly standard across a range of brands of the time? Thanks for the links as well, I am sure something will come up ...in the meantime, I can always look out for a BULK buy of chewy ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Doug
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Post by humpyboy on Nov 26, 2010 16:25:28 GMT 10
Gidday Doug, Just wanted to say, LOVE the future tow car, I have one also but not yet on the road.
Derk.
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 26, 2010 16:55:52 GMT 10
Thanks Derk
I've had it for a fair while now (about 12 years) and it was done up by the previous owner from the shell up; it shows as it has held together extremely well even when it was my daily driver for several years. The paint isn't great now though so am saving some $ for a paint job hopefully next year ...
I will put up some pics in tow cars soon or if you are a member of the fx - fj forum I have a garage there (I use cruisin_doug there too).
So are you going to pop up to the FX - FJ Nationals after Christmas; might catch you there if so ...
Cheers
Doug.
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Post by humpyboy on Nov 26, 2010 17:09:21 GMT 10
I'm planning on driving up on the Sunday in my sedan plus maybe bring the trailer up also, just ask any of the "Early Model Holden Club" members to point me out I'm their VP so they should know me Just had a poke around in your garage Doug, would think that it will make an ideal tow car, much better than my bog standard Grey motor and three speed crash box. |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 29, 2010 12:48:57 GMT 10
Got the chassis sandblasted today, its come up well with no (really) nasty surprises   On the way home went and got her weighed .... now no holding your breath it doesn't help !!!  Came in at 840kgs - thats without the spare and nothing else in it so looks like this will be a bit heavy by the end. I'm thinking minimum 1500 kg towbar?? Haven't worked out what the towball weight is yet, but I'm guessing from what I've seen on here I should be looking aroung 85 - 95kg (allowing for a bit of weight gain)  ? Please let me know if I'm on the wrong track. Cheers, Doug. |
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 29, 2010 16:51:42 GMT 10
G'day Doug, if you weighed the van as per your last photo, then it's true tare weight will be understated because the ball weight is not included. So if you're told it weighs 840kgs, then you are looking at another 10% (or thereabouts) on top of that to determine your "Tare Mass". You can use a set of bathroom scales to measure the ball weight, by sticking them under the jockey wheel, and then adjusting the height of the jockey to make the chassis level.
I personally reckon for a van your size, nothing less than the heavy duty towbar (the "hitch receiver" style) would be the best.
I don't know if there's any rhyme or reason about how rego authorities determine what payload you can add to the van, but if you factor in an allowance of 350kgs payload, plus add the 840kgs weighbridge figure, plus add about 10% (84kgs) ball weight, you end up with 350 + 840 + 84 = 1274kgs ATM (Aggregate Trailer Mass).
I reckon the beefier you can make the 'join' between car and van, the better.
cheers,
Al.
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Post by Franklin1 on Nov 29, 2010 17:15:41 GMT 10
Here's a few examples of how your payload can mount up. I weighed some of the stuff I put into my van, just to get an idea of how much things weigh: - spare 13" wheel = 25kgs - full 9kg gas bottle = 18kgs - bolster cushions in the front seats = 10kgs (I'd left them out for the weighbridge) - full suitcase of clothing = 15 to 20kgs (hers weighs twice mine because she "can't leave home without it". ) - 50 litres of water in the tank = 50kgs Plus you then have all the food; kitchen crockery/pots/cooking stuff; the annexe/poles/ropes/pegs; sheets/pillows/blankets; etc etc. It sure doesn't take much to get it up to the "allowance limit". We travel without water in the tank, so that gives us up to 60kgs to use elsewhere. cheers, Al. |
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Post by cruisindoug on Nov 29, 2010 17:22:07 GMT 10
Thanks Al, the caravan was up on the jockey wheel for weighing - back wheels of the car off the scales and wound up completely off the ball so the only thing connected was the safety chains and electric plug. I am with you on ensuring that the hitch is well and truly up to the task; definately don't want any nasty surprises! Been slapping a bit of paint around this arvo, amazing how much difference even one coat makes .... Progress!!  |
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Post by cruisindoug on Dec 14, 2010 19:24:44 GMT 10
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Another phone call to the seller to check out this possibility and I decided this could be a simpler option and less expensive in the long run – the work needed doing anyway so why not? So I set off with my “rescue kit” with the plan B being to hire a trailer locally and take it to my brothers place in Grafton.
) but otherwise had everything I needed. I went on the principle of take everything you can think of and you won’t need it – didn’t quite work out that way but still …
, more on this later:
. Hmmm, try the 50 mm ball; well it locks, sort of, but rattles like a steam train 
. Then look at the hitch and written on it is 
:
. Will be paying them a visit upon my return… 
?