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Post by overlanda on Apr 29, 2012 20:05:15 GMT 10
Hi we painted our 18' Wayfarer in 2 pack (sides only) it was all sanded back to to a smooth finish coated with 2 pack primer sanded again and again and touched up any defects that we found ,primed it again and sanded it. Then applied the top coats let it dry and the following morning looked at it and it was a dull finish (seemed to dry)so i cracked it, went out and got another 4 litres of paint sanded it all over again with 800 grit and sprayed it . It came up really good after we buffed it. The only thing that we are not happy with is the main door as it has a twist in it so we will make a new one and spray it and all will be good. This was done around two years ago and there has been no movement in the paint up to now. For the paint we used ISO free Highchem Paint not the top end in the paint range but we found it good to date. The only thing we have to do now is finish the insides doors fly screens 2 roof hatches and a bit of plumbing but the customer gets theirs done and then you don't feel like working on your own. Regards Gerald
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Post by seeshell on May 12, 2012 18:40:08 GMT 10
Hi All Warning: this is a long and technical post about paint trials for a bondwood.For those of you following the thread on the paint issues of the Blue Flyer, you know that we had an issue with the existing paint sheeting off. When we got back to the original surface, there was a faint red tinge on the wood and a slightly waxy feel. Though most of it seemed to be sanded off it was still creating problems. We were investigating what we could use so the same issue does not recur, and this set of tests might be useful to other people who have the same red tinged bondwood – we still don’t know if it is: ‘Reswood’, something else that was applied, or really old remnants of red oxide lead based primer? We spent about 80 hours so far (across a number of people) prepping the body and really sanding out, filling, etc. Regular Good Quality House PaintsRegular oil based primer stayed – sort of. We could lift parts of the primer, though other areas adhered well. But you couldn’t rely on all of it holding on. Acrylic primer didn’t stay at all, and continued to be scraped away with a fingernail. Next Tests: Automotive OptionsInitially we looked at 2k filler primer and paint. We thought we would give it a go, but the more we read about it and the more advice we got (thanks Kaybee!), the more we realised we don’t have the skill or the safety gear to get a good result. We jettisoned the 2k primer and paint idea, so I can’t say if it would have worked. Anyone want to buy some light blue 2k? Automotive acrylic: We did a light test and we couldn’t get adhesion even with a primer base. Something about the wood hates acrylic, even though it’s been really well prepared. Al is a Genius: Boat Resin – Bote CoteSo we ended up wondering what kind of primer and paint was suitable for wood under enormous stress in various dimensions, assisted in making the van watertight…and then we realised Al (Franklin1) is a genius! Al has been using a product called Bote Cote in order to glue and build his Newcastle van, but in investigating it, we used it in a different way. We bought a test kit, and got to work. Usually it is intended to go over raw wood, so we were not sure how it would work on wood that had previously been treated, stripped, filled and painted. We gave our test areas a fresh sand with 80 grit (not non-clogging paper as it has wax and silicon on it); they’re very clear – DON’T touch it once you sand it (hands are oily). We mixed up some of the resin, which was quite an easy process, since it’s 1:1. Per the directions we applied it with a foam brush. It was very thick – because the weather was so cold it took about a day to go off (you can buy an activator that makes it go off quicker in colder weather but that wasn’t in the test kit). It set up like a hard and shiny shell – much poking and prodding, and none of it came away. Didn’t get any ‘fish eye’ areas (where paint pulls away from waxy/oily surfaces) – good, solid bond, even over old paint, areas patched by bog, and it had a light filling quality.When it was cured, we sanded it well back (and again tried to lift it – solid as) and you get an overall matte look. It has filled in all the pores of the wood; to run a hand over the sanded area, it feels like glass. Here's a picture of it sanded out, and sticking well to a bog filled scratch: We also added some filler powder (that comes with the kit) and turned the balance of our kit into a paste, which you can use to fill wood, or as Al has done, fillet joints. Bote Cote works brilliantly, particularly between the edge of the roof and the walls on the exterior; it glued the pieces together, filled the fine gap between the pieces, AND made it watertight where the old calico roof had previously provided a seal. We haven’t tried it yet, but you can lay fibreglass tape into wet Bote Cote – so a good way of reinforcing the outside edges or make really solid repairs. Here is the seal between the roof ply and the exterior wall ply - filling a gap, glueing up, covering old bits of paint, and bog (you can see how shiny it is before it is sanded). The milky coloured areas are the Bote Cote made into a paste - it's rock hard now: Absolutely brilliant stuff. So we will coat the whole van in it and sand back (2 coats? Not sure). Paint sticks to it no trouble. Boat Paint: Aqua CoteThe same company do make a primer filler, range of paints and a clear coat with UV protection. All of them are based on the same chemistry, so they work really well together. The paint is water based but sets up with a slight flex – each coat you put on, let set up, and then sand back to smooth – and more forgiving for those of us that don’t have any particular skill with a spray gun. You apply with a low nap roller, and sand smooth between coats of colour. Only downside is it comes in 16 colours – if you want something custom, you will have to mix colours from the range to get it. Finally after 2-3 coats you coat with clear UV paint from the same range. Every 5 years they say, you lightly sand the clear coat and reapply, refreshing the shine and the UV protection. Our test was really good. I think this product is a lot more work in the first instance than say 2k or auto acrylic – the sanding will be rather exhausting I think! But, if you keep refreshing the clear coat on top, the paint could last for something like 20 years – so perhaps in terms of effort, it all evens out. I’m convinced I can get a result at home (safely!) that I’ll be happy with. Nice to get a product that performs better than described. Hope this helps someone else out who has “Red Wood” issues. Cheers! Seeshell
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Post by Franklin1 on May 12, 2012 19:09:39 GMT 10
Way to go, seeshell!! What can I say...Bote Cote RULES!! ;D ;D
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Post by seeshell on Nov 11, 2012 17:27:53 GMT 10
Good afternoon All It's been a while since we posted about the Blue Flyer - and that's because it's been a while since there's been any decent weather to get out to work in. But with the glorious few days this and last weekend, we're underway for the first time since April. This weekend we:- Took off the metal off the roof - originally it did not have metal (1.2mm aluminium) over it, but was instead calicoed and painted with silver paint.
- Pulled off the VERY large hatch, striped it of mouldings, and then of the tin.
- Got "ladder leg" poking through the hatch stripping away the canvas. There were patches where there was no canvas at all, and others where some enterprising soul had squirted glue underneath to hold it down, or some mastic or silicone. A combination of scrapers, heat guns, chisels, fingers, and needle nose pliers all came into play. The roof needs a good sand still - and potentially some filling - which is next weekends job.
- Removed the chimney that went through one of the upper cupboards - acting as both the cooking vent and the air flow for the original fridge. It's been dismantled and removed, and the hole in the roof patched.
- We found there had been previous damage to the front corners, and dear Hubby decided the patches were a bit ordinary and has redone them.
As as aside the roof weighed more than 40kgs (not including all the trim): weight per sq/m = 2.71*1*1.2mm = 3.25kg 2.1m wide X 6m long = 12.6 *3.25 = 40.95kg. I have to think she'll behave better on the road without that extra unoriginal weight up high. So she's completely bare and back to wood now. Next week we will give her a final patch and sand, and final fills before beginning the wood protecting resin in two weeks - the resin helps paint stick and it's almost as if we're reinstating the old rescote hey Cobber? Very tired but pleased with ourselves! Seeshell
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Post by King Woody on Nov 11, 2012 18:21:59 GMT 10
Hi all. just a caveat to the bote-cote story. It is an amazing product but, if moisture does get under, it does trap it in and make it impossible to dry out without scraping back to original timber. I'm not sure what the alternative is but it traps in just well as it keeps out! I will continue using it but I do find that after the deluge we just endured over the Yamba weekend I'm scraping off the product to let the timber dry out!
Mark
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Post by seeshell on Nov 11, 2012 18:57:34 GMT 10
Hi Mark We've heard that as well. We've ended up going with a set of competing products by Norglass. You're right, I'm sure since bote-cote is not UV stabilised over time the resin would break down and let water in. The directions on our product specify that the resin product must be covered by primer or UV stabilised clear coat within four weeks to prevent any moisture or decomposition issues. So it's the epoxy and flexible filler, then the wood treatment (sealer), then the shipshape primer, and then norcote. If that doesn't do it, I'm not sure if we'll ever be water tight. Cheers Seeshell
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Post by DC3Td on Nov 11, 2012 19:11:40 GMT 10
Hi Seeshell. With your now removed 40kg roof & my old 30kg A frame we only need a few more bits & pieces to make a vintage bullet proof `van. gordon
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Post by firefighter on Nov 11, 2012 19:46:35 GMT 10
G'day Carley Part of your posting Next week we will give her a final patch and sand, Bendigo swaps on.........you attended last year..........you can give the old girl a final patch and sand the next weekend .......bugger you cannot do it that weekend either .......why....Torquay evens on ........just pull the finger out and have it finished by early next year ......Victorian tour is in the pipe line ( about a 12 day tour) finishing where your mum & dad lives......more about this event later cheers f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by seeshell on Nov 11, 2012 19:52:42 GMT 10
Hey Geoff and Gay,
We need her roadworthy for our Chrissie holidays - but a vintage run next year sounds good. Not sure how it's going to fit in with work, but might be able to join up for a long weekend!
Cheers Carley and Aaron
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Post by hilldweller on Nov 12, 2012 14:41:02 GMT 10
Sounds like great strides forward It'll be interesting to see if you notice the difference in the roof weight when towing. Thankyou for taking the time to post in such detail about your paint/sealant investigations. I have been reading with interest as my next van, if there is a next van, will be a bondwood - not really the ideal cladding for NZ's climate.
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Post by seeshell on Nov 20, 2012 20:38:04 GMT 10
Hi All WARNING: this is a long post about vintage style formica.One issues we have with the Blue Flyer is that large sections of the formica are burnt and cracked (from where the cooker sat on the counter) with no real way of replacing it so it doesn’t look like a patch. So we began trying to source some actual or old looking formica, which anyone will tell you is quite hard to do! I thought others might end up being in the same position – looking for replacement laminate if they’re not lucky enough to find their own in perfect or pretty good nick – so here is what we found. I hope it is useful to someone! BackgroundIn the early and mid-1940s, most laminate was made for industrial purposes, and was in a very limited range of colours. In 1949, Formica Company introduced the Color Range, which included six patterns each in several colorways and ten solid colors all available in “both standard and cigarette-proof grades.” In 1953 they upgraded the offerings with the exception of Linen and Wood finish, which continued; the new patterns were synthetic designs, including speckles, lines and other amoebic shapes. By the early 1950’s, one-third of the new homes built used laminate. If you’re interested in reading more about formica’s history (a wonderful phenolic plastic!) you can find it here at Formica History. In fact we found a formica catalogue from 1953 which shows some of the early offerings (including the linen formicas): Abstract FormicasThe lovely, and still available, cracked ice and boomerang formicas were more popular in the mid to late 1950s, which is a bit late for our van. However, if you need them and they suit your project, you can still get them at www.barsandbooths.com. A range of boomerang laminates are available, and cracked ice comes in grey/silver, yellow and red (sadly no green or blue). Bars and Booths are overseas, so shipping I think would be dear (they roll it in a tube for shipping to you). I understand sheets are about $425 USD (compared to a normal sheet of laminate which might be about $290AUD) – at the time of this post of course. Other vintage and retro patters are not available – see options later in the post. Solids and LinensOur project required the earlier solid colours or a linen look. So we began to look for modern equivalents – there certainly are some, but not in the colours appropriate to earlier vintage vans. Pionite do offer some nice selections in vintage colours (but more 1960s): Cradle of Liberty (blue), Cavalcade South (cream), Tropical Getaway (avocado), Summer Heat Wave (tangerine), and Azzura (dark teal?) – all to be found at Pionite . Other companies do offer abstracts or fabric looks in their current ranges (which does tend to make it a bit cheaper!) – but generally in earth tones. Solid colours are readily available, but tend to be a little different than earlier colour pallettes. Laminex and Formica brands still do offer a very large range of colours and you may find one that suits you (not all colours are available in Australia). Other Options[url=http://www.wilsonartcontract.com/portfolio/laminate/custom-laminate/[/url]WilsonArt[/url] has a custom laminate division (in the USA) - we spoke to Terri Hoelscher, the Manager of Custom Laminate Service who was very helpful. Her contact details are: Terri Hoelscher Manager, Custom Laminate Services WILSONART INTERNATIONAL, INC. 10501 NW H.K. Dodgen Loop Temple, TX 76502 Phone: 254-207-6436 Fax: 254-207-6525 We are working through the order process now - Halifax Vogel Group are the local distributors of Wilsonart in Australia. The rep in Victoria is Stephen Dorrofield. Once you have your sample and are happy with it (through Terri in the USA) you need to place your order through the local Halifax Vogel Group representative (at agreed local prices). The PO and the design order are sent back to the USA and the run begins for what you ordered. There is also a local provider who does one off runs of laminate in Burwood, VIC Surface Squared – no doubt there are others. While it may be a bit more dear to print custom runs, usually you will only need one or two sheets for your whole project; most sheets seem to be 4’ by 8’ in the old money but I understand some places will do a 3’ by 8’ sheet, which might mean less wastage. You will need to have some art or an example to copy. In our case we just got lucky; Wilsonart, who we contacted, already had a scan of the vintage 1951 Formica Petal Pink Linen, and were able to ship us a sample of it in about 10 days - and the sample size is nice and big so you really can get a sense of what it will look like. I’m pretty happy with it (it really is much more red than pink!): If you were interested in reproducing something you already had (like some of the very nifty but unobtainable patterns) it might mean taking a picture to someone who could do the art, or finding an example like an old table from which they can take photos or do art. They will ask you for a colour reference (a four colour Pantone code) – most graphic designers will have a book you can look at to choose the right colour since what you see on your screen may differ from theirs, and this needs to be done in person (unless you have access to a pantone book!). Best of luck with all your renovation projects! Cheers Seeshell
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Post by cobber on Nov 21, 2012 5:26:43 GMT 10
G'day seeshell, Thanks muchly for sharing the results of your research on this subject It needs to be duplicated in the technical section and made "sticky" there I reckon, you've obviously spent a bit of time gathering the info Cobber
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Post by seeshell on Nov 25, 2012 18:42:59 GMT 10
Good evening all Fresh from fish and chips and a shower we feel human again. While we were sorry to miss Torquay, we got through heaps on the van and might be done in time for our Christmas trip! The Jones WheelSaturday we began to disassemble the Jones Wheel. There were parts of the van which could not be sanded (and clearly had not been since it was installed) without removing the A frame cowl. We cut off the gas rings and the regulator holder neither of which we will use, and a bit of tidying up with the angle grinder was done. The shield was tack welded down, and those were also cut off/cold chiseled so it could be removed. The “naked” A frame of the Jones Wheel The shield that fits in the A Frame In addition we decided that servicing the wheel was in order. Rather than a long bolt, there was a nut welded onto a piece of metal dowel, with a castleated nut at the end. It didn’t seem to be moving freely, and we wanted to make sure if we ended up having to deal with it on the side of the road it was in good shape. Also the tyre on it is a bit too wide, and from time to time you could hear it rubbing the last time we towed it home from the axle shop. The wheel was in good shape – really no rust or damage. So we’re hoping to get that cleaned up and powdercoated this week to match the wheels. However the bearings need replacing – the number codes match a Chev (corrected from Ford) from 1933 to 1936 – God bless Google. I expect we’ll be able to find some replacements with all the people who enjoy hotrods. The bearings from the Jones Wheel The welded nut/metal rod contraption had seized inside the axle, so Aaron will be after having a new axle made this week (luckily he has a colleague in a metal fabricators a few doors down at work). And then a new bolt and castleated nut and we are good as new. The tyre on the Jones Wheel is an 8-5.7 but it needs to be a bit narrower (to avoid the rubbing). We’re going to order the 8-4.8. Van PrepWe have spend the last two weekends sanding, bogging with Norfill, and sanding again. And today we got to what we felt was “sufficiency”. The Hubby doing the roof – I did the “lower bits”. This is post sanding and bogging: After blowing and vaccuming away all the dust, we applied the Norglass Norseal wood treatment. It is a 1:1 mix and is very liquidy – like sugar syrup, but smells like model airplane glue – with the aim of making her watertight. You put it on and it soaks into the wood below the surface and makes a waterproof seal. The only real difference after we applied it was the van looked “darker” as if we’d rubbed it with a stain, which seems to show up the patches more. Used about 5 litres. After Norseal Wood Treatment: Needs to go off for at least 48 hours – so happily we’re ready for primer next weekend! And if it is true that a paint job is 98% prep, we’re really in the home stretch! Cheers Seeshell
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Post by kaybee on Nov 25, 2012 18:47:41 GMT 10
G'day Seeshell ,sorry to say but they aren't Ford parts,they're early Chev.....same as I have in my Teardrop van and the other 10ft van we had......pretty sure I've got spares,so if you want to message me your numbers....I'll check and see what I have, cheers, Col.
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Post by seeshell on Nov 25, 2012 18:58:16 GMT 10
Hi Col -
You're quite right - Chevs they are. I put it down to tiredness! Just for the record here the numbers are:
909522 for the Cone (x2) 909622 for the Cup (x2) 909722 for the Balls and Cage (x2)
The seals on each were different. One was 25016826 (with a reference to Western?) and the other seal was marked 250122N8 with no other marks. I need 2 seals of course.
I'd love to know what you have. Alternatively I was going to try AA Bearings in Nunawading.
Cheers Seeshell
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Post by cobber on Nov 25, 2012 19:12:26 GMT 10
G'day seeshell, Well done, you're doing a great job on that old van. If between Col and AA bearings you don't get the right bearings...... You've got a problem The service I got from AA bearings was more than I expected when chasing new ones for Ol' 36. Cobber.
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Post by seeshell on Nov 25, 2012 19:20:48 GMT 10
Hi Cobber
Thanks very much - we find it quite satisfying to bring something back to a good standard. And if you're going to put in all the effort, its seems silly to cut corners.
Just for the record, the history buffs might be interested to know the bearings in the Jones Wheel were made at the Echuca Bearings Works.
Cheers Seeshell
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Post by DC3Td on Nov 25, 2012 20:31:58 GMT 10
Gday Seeshell. A mamoth job on its own, let alone the drama you`ve been through re paint stripping & re-coating. Seems you`ve got that sorted & can`t wait to see the finished look. gordon
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Post by Roehm3108 on Nov 26, 2012 6:01:51 GMT 10
So far so good ........... so far so V E R Y good ;D ;D ;D Tell hubby he's just gotta get a bigger sander Watching with interest Ray
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Post by seeshell on Nov 26, 2012 7:10:14 GMT 10
Hi Ray You're right in that picture with the orbital it looks as if it would take a year to sand off - wait a minute, we HAVE been sanding for nearly 6 months... Like any of these jobs there's about 400 tools involved. I think we've used everything there is: hand,fairing sanders, orbital, belt, mouse and bosch triangle shaped sanders, and innumerable different grits. But my favorite now is the air sander. Hear me ladies (or anyone really!), this sander is your friend. Variable speed, relatively light, and can move between fixed and orbital functions. It should be everyone's go-to sander if you happen to have a compressor. No matter what you use you spend most of the time working above your head - shoulders of steel, I say. Cheers, Seeshell
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Post by hilldweller on Nov 26, 2012 9:17:03 GMT 10
You can really see the difference that sealant makes. Must be a good feeling to be putting things on rather than sanding off at last
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Post by seeshell on Nov 26, 2012 10:09:42 GMT 10
Hi HD
The Norseal timber treatment product is meant for below the waterline applications, so we feel it will more than meet our needs in terms of assisting us to be nice and dry inside. Maybe it will suit your new wood project - being in NZ where it seems to be perpetually raining or misting. ;D You do have to cover it though with primer (matched to your final paint type) - it will break down in the sun and let water as its not UV stablilised.
Having removed the canvas though, I have to say that it seems to have done a sterling job keeping the roof in good condition and watertight - no patches to fix or repair, other than where we removed the chimney.
I suppose in the long run the canvas might need to be done more often, but it's a very attractive and tough wearing option too.
Cheers Seeshell
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Post by kaybee on Nov 26, 2012 10:15:26 GMT 10
Hi Col - You're quite right - Chevs they are. I put it down to tiredness! Just for the record here the numbers are: 909522 for the Cone (x2) 909622 for the Cup (x2) 909722 for the Balls and Cage (x2) The seals on each were different. One was 25016826 (with a reference to Western?) and the other seal was marked 250122N8 with no other marks. I need 2 seals of course. I'd love to know what you have. Alternatively I was going to try AA Bearings in Nunawading. Cheers Seeshell Hiya Carly , it looks like you're off to AA.....unfortunately the ones I have are 909552,602 and 702 respectively......from memory they suit Chev 46-54 , which would probably make yours the pre-war items.....and the seals I have are CR's,and have their own number on them...sorry about that. Give Dennis a shot at AA, but not on Wednesdays....cheers, Col.
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Post by seeshell on Nov 26, 2012 10:51:24 GMT 10
Hi Cobber and Col - We appreciate your help Col in looking for the bits and bobs, and for the advice about contacting AA (sounds like we need a 12-step program!). We did get the last ones in captivity apparently - which are and I quote Dennis "like hen's teeth". Two full assemblies, shipped out, and will arrive in days. I agree with your earlier assessment, Cobber. That's service! Cheers Seeshell
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Post by hilldweller on Nov 26, 2012 11:05:46 GMT 10
Hi HD The Norseal timber treatment product is meant for below the waterline applications, so we feel it will more than meet our needs in terms of assisting us to be nice and dry inside. Maybe it will suit your new wood project - being in NZ where it seems to be perpetually raining or misting. ;D You do have to cover it though with primer (matched to your final paint type) - it will break down in the sun and let water as its not UV stablilised. Having removed the canvas though, I have to say that it seems to have done a sterling job keeping the roof in good condition and watertight - no patches to fix or repair, other than where we removed the chimney. I suppose in the long run the canvas might need to be done more often, but it's a very attractive and tough wearing option too. Cheers Seeshell So are you going to replace the canvas ? I will be watching for pics with great interest if you do and will definitely investigate the Norseal products when the time comes to get stuck into the new old van. And yep I'm surprised how well the canvas on that van has protected the hardboard roof over quite a considerable period of time.
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