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Post by hilldweller on Jan 29, 2011 18:55:17 GMT 10
Hello all Are Kiwis allowed on here? I'm hoping so because wow, what a treasure trove of information and inspiration ;D Had a sudden rush of blood to the head over Christmas and bought a late 60s van  . It's a project LOL - just a fibreglass shell on wheels - and going to be a challenge as I'm all new to this. The brand name is Caravelle but from the pics I've seen on here it's nothing like what you call a caravelle but oddly enough is very similar to a Kennedy. Different front and rear windows and I think the roof might be a bit different but the sides look identical  . I can have a go at wrestling with photobucket if you like. |
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Post by retro64 on Jan 29, 2011 20:07:23 GMT 10
Hi and welcome,
Yes we'd love some photos, so please do wrestle with the photobucket and if you have problems theres some good instructions in Forum Guidelines and Helpful Hints.
There seems to be endless information on this forum and alot of people happy to help if they can.
Cheers retro64
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Post by atouchofglass on Jan 29, 2011 20:42:17 GMT 10
Hey Hilldweller
Course you are welcome.
It's pre 70's and worth saving
Do you have any photos of the van?
Over in NZ there is also a real nice shaped van the Concorde.
Based on the Sunliner shape.
Worth looking at if you can find one as well.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Atog
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jan 29, 2011 22:26:41 GMT 10
I can have a go at wrestling with photobucket if you like. Hi Hilldweller, We're very glad to have you on board. There are some quite interesting interconnections between caravans in NZ and those in Oz. ATOG has mentioned one, which you can read about if you go through the Sunliner thread in the Down History Lane section of the forum (find it via the Index at the top of the section). I think the bit about the Concorde is somewhere on page 3 from memory. We look forward to seeing your pics. Don Ricardo |
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Post by hilldweller on Jan 30, 2011 12:23:00 GMT 10
Thanks for the welcome. OK, photobucket willing, here's what she looks like       This is pretty much as I got her which means I don't unfortunately have any of the original fittings and no door handle! The front window isn't original - should wrap right around in a single pane as the back one does. Fortunately the replacement is cracked which will help justify re-replacing it with a wraparound one. The floor is sound, apart from where holes have been cut and there's no sign of any leaks - as there shouldn't be with fiberglass I guess and apparently she was shed stored so the perished window seals haven't caused problems. Some of the remaining internal framing is OK, or will be if it can be reattached more firmly to the shell. Other bits need replacing including the timbers running across the front and back of the hatch, hence the props. Hatch itself seems OK but no fittings. The paint's been put on pretty roughly with a brush and rollers, presumably as an undercoat and they never got any further than that, but there are a few (not many actually, given her age) bits of bog under the paint that need more work. There's a patch over the left wheel that wasn't very smooth to start with and then cracked as soon as it went over a bump. I've had the chassis checked out and apparently the rust is only surface so I'm wire brushing and will put on some rust kill. Lights are brand new done in a hurry to get her road legal for the trip home so no time to look into more authentic fittings. Thoughts and advice very welcome . Atog - one caravan is quite enough for now - though the sunliners/concords do look pretty cool :o |
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Post by beau on Jan 30, 2011 13:08:26 GMT 10
Very Cool  |
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Post by bobandjacqui on Jan 30, 2011 15:11:21 GMT 10
G'day and Welcome to the forum, What a great find that you have there ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D as for the internals at least you have a blank canvas to do your own thing with  ;D please keep the pics coming Cheers Bob and Jacqui |
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Post by atouchofglass on Jan 30, 2011 15:51:01 GMT 10
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jan 30, 2011 18:03:32 GMT 10
Hi Hilldweller and ATOG, Great photos and great van Hilldweller - lots of potential there. Congratulations on making the link with Lilliput, ATOG. Hilldweller's van looks like a match with the van in the link you provided, although there are some differences as well. There is some info on Lilliput vans in Chris Hunter's book 'Vantastic' which is about caravanning in NZ. It would probably be worth getting hold of a copy, Hilldweller. And as ATOG's link says there is also a Lilliput Club which could probably provide you with photos of the original layout and lots of advice. Having said that I want to draw your attention to something else... Have a look at these photos:   Look familiar? So, it's another Lilliput? Nup, it's actually an Australian Kennedy van... Unfortunately, we have very few close up pics of a Kennedy from all angles, apart from the "booted" variety - mainly just little snippets. However, if you look at the pics of vans on the Kennedy thread in the Down History Lane section here, you will see that there are a number of identical features shared between the Kennedy vans and Hilldweller's Lilliput. One difference is the raised "bump" moulded into the roof of the Lilliput, but the similarities are astonishing. What do you think, or am I just imagining it? Hilldweller, just to explain, a small number of Kennedys were built with a "boot" but most were without. However, you'll note that one of the booted vans has the same wrap around front window as yours. So what does this mean? We have discovered that the NZ Concord seems to have been based on the Australian Sunliner (although 'Vantastic' says that the Concord was designed in NZ). I wonder if there was a similar connection between Kennedy and Lilliput?? One other thing, which will be of interest to Hilldweller. According to Hunter in 'Vantastic': "In 1968 Webster [the founder and designer of Lilliput] became interested in making the whole caravan from fibreglass, and designed and built moulds for a new 12-foot 6-inch (3.8 m) Lilliput. Unfortunately, those were not a success. After only four fibreglass vans were made, Webster paid for the moulds to be ploughed underground at a local rubbish tip. He watched from the sidelines to ensure that they were destroyed.
"Webster then took a break from caravan building... After several months he returned to his calling and...created the 'perfect' fibreglass caravan - the Lilliput Special. But this time, the finished result was uneconomical. With only 25 Specials made between 1969 and 1972, the family faced financial disaster. However, a last-ditch attempt in 1973 provied a winner. Webster created new moulds for a 10-foot 6-inch (3.2 m) van. He called this the Lillput Gazelle and it was an immediate success..." (Vantastic, p 54).So Hilldweller, let's try and put this together: Comparing your van with the one in ATOG's link, it seems your van is quite possibly a Lilliput Special. There were only 25 Specials made according to Hunter. Ergo, your van may be one of ony 25! Sounds like it might be a pretty 'Special' van, and not only because of its name. A few assumptions in the above, but certainly worth investigating further. Maybe the Lilliput Club will be able to help you? Please do let us know what you discover, including anything about a link between Lilliput and Kennedy. Interestingly, only a few Kennedys were made, and I understand it was largely due to cost. Don Ricardo |
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Post by atouchofglass on Jan 30, 2011 19:39:35 GMT 10
Hey DonR Thanks for filling in the blanks Most of the info I've found was just surfing the net. Your info makes a lot of sense - considering the striking similarities between the Kennedy and Lilliput. And the timing. Hi Hilldweller Here is a little inspiration for you. And yes I was web surfing ages ago and found the photos. Sadly I can't find them again so can't give you any links..... sorry    Hilldweller this photo is the one that just blew me away with the beauty of these vans...... Perhaps you will do something as beautiful.  You've just got to love it.... What do you think? A challenge for you to emulate the wonderful interior of this van. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Cheers Atog This may be a link to where the photos came from..... www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Caravans-motorhomes/Caravans/Up-to-12-ft/auction-277638559.htm |
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Post by tucky29 on Jan 30, 2011 23:26:41 GMT 10
hi hilldweller
i,ve had two franklin/kennedy caravans and a lot to do with a third, in my opinion the van you have is exactly the same,with the usual nz mod. ie one piece front and rear window. the only other mods,are eyebrows over side windows and molded shape on the roof to add strength. it has been made from the australian mold.
tucky
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Post by boblor on Jan 31, 2011 9:45:17 GMT 10
Hi All
I been into my files for Franklin /Kennedy and have located the following article, for my two bobs worth on this van.
Australian Motor Manual---April, 1967 --page 37 ---"Like a duck to water...."This 14' moulded fibreglass Caravelle is made in New Zealand by Sutton Mason and Co., who tested the van across Auckland harbour with an outboard motor. Caravelle features a dust and moisture-proof body, torsion bar suspension and flyscreens on every window, door and hatch. The van which weight131/2cwt., is similar to Australian-made fibreglass caravans."
The van in the photo appears to be the same as 'hilldweller's' featured above.
So there you have it from fibreglass headquarters.
Cheers boblor
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Post by hilldweller on Jan 31, 2011 15:21:03 GMT 10
Wow what a great publicity stunt! Might need to do something about the hole in the floor before I try something like that  Great to know who manufactured it boblor - thanks for that Very interesting to see the similarities with the lilliputs and kennedys too. From the side, the kennedy looks identical apart from the moulding above the wheel. This is too big at 14ft to be a version of lilliputs but perhaps one was influenced by the other. Did manufacturers design and make their own moulds? Could they have 'borrowed' another firm's design and modified it? Great pics Atog - unfortunately my skill level is nowhere near that league but it's lovely to look. |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jan 31, 2011 20:51:09 GMT 10
Hi Hilldweller and the fibreglass detectives, Well, Hilldweller...looks like you'll have to cancel your subscription to the Lilliput Club! On the other hand Boblor's come up trumps(again!). Well done, Boblor. Hilldweller did mention in her first post that her van was a Caravelle, a fact we didn't take into account when advancing the Lilliput theory.  I can't find any info on Sutton Mason & Co in Hunter's Vantastic, so I am guessing they may have been pretty small and/or brief players in the caravan industry. Maybe the Caravelle is even rarer than the Lilliput Special? However I did find an advert for a relatively modern fibreglass boat here which was built by Sutton Mason & Co Ltd of Mt Roskill, Auckland, so maybe they still exist? Might be worth trying to track them down and see what they can tell you Hilldweller. Did manufacturers design and make their own moulds? Could they have 'borrowed' another firm's design and modified it? We know that Sunliner sold some of their old moulds to another van builder to build vans under licence which were then sold under another name (Gracemur), and the Sunliners and early Concords are so similar that I can't believe that they didn't come out of the same mould. Likewise the Caravalle is so similar to the Kennedy that I can't believe that they didn't come out of the same mould. At the very least it seems impossible that the two caravan designs were developed completely independently of each other. What a fantastic thread this has turned out to be. Who would have thought we would find out what we have - another apparent link between Oz and NZ caravan builders! I'm so glad you joined the forum Hilldweller - we've all learned something new as a result. If you can find out more about Sutton Mason & Co, I'm sure that will be of interest to us all. Hopefully you will also continue to contribute posts to the forum as you work on the Caravelle so that we see what you end up doing with it. In the meantime, with your agreement Hilldweller, I will add some info on the Caravelle to the Kennedy thread in Down History Lane section as a reference point. Don Ricardo |
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Post by hilldweller on Feb 1, 2011 14:47:58 GMT 10
Yep go for it Don Ricardo. I'll see what I can find out about sutton mason boatbuilders - must be the same outfit surely. Perhaps that early publicity stunt caused them to change direction LOL It would be interesting to know how many were made. I've seen pics of two or three other Caravelles in what appears to be active use, and another one or two derelict so there are at least a few still about - and perhaps they're more likely to be found in the Akld area where Sutton Mason were/are which is the wrong end of the country for me. From a browse through expired Trademe (like ebay) listings I'd say there are more sunliners and lilliputs still in active service - but I could be wrong on that. |
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Post by humpyboy on Feb 1, 2011 22:16:03 GMT 10
Hello and welcome hilldweller, looks like you have some work ahead of you there but just think how proud you will be when your finished.
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Smiley
Junior Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by Smiley on Mar 5, 2011 17:45:43 GMT 10
Having now seen photos of your van I can see why you would think that the moulds were the same. There is only minor differences . Is your van a 14'er? What colour are you going to paint your van? I like the idea of changing a few things on our Kenny, but it is in such beautiful, original condition that we would be doing an injustice in do anything too much. We will add our personal touch with curtains etc.
If you need any info or photos of internal stuff that might help you just send a message.
Cheers,
Mrs. Smiley
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Post by RollyDog on Mar 5, 2011 22:43:09 GMT 10
Hilldweller. I missed the start of this thread but welcome to the forum. I actually have a NZ van. It is a 1968 Munro Pixie 10 manufactured by Munro in Otrohaunga and sold new by John Withers Caravan Centre in New Plymouth. (All this info is from the badges attached to the van) Unfortunately the records Munro held for these were lost in a fire but if you ever see these vans I'd appreciate any photos as I want to compare the layouts of the stove/fridge/sink and bed area.
Rollydog
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Post by hilldweller on Mar 6, 2011 8:32:27 GMT 10
Having now seen photos of your van I can see why you would think that the moulds were the same. There is only minor differences . Is your van a 14'er? What colour are you going to paint your van? I like the idea of changing a few things on our Kenny, but it is in such beautiful, original condition that we would be doing an injustice in do anything too much. We will add our personal touch with curtains etc. If you need any info or photos of internal stuff that might help you just send a message. Cheers, Mrs. Smiley Hey thanks for that kind offer Mrs Smiley. I may well take you up on it as I get further down the track. Agree that yours is such a great original example that it's worth preserving. Things like curtain fabric though really aren't made to last for 50 years and it would be natural for those to be changed - to my way of thinking anyway. Colour - hmmm well the thinking on that changes daily LOL. I'm not aiming to recreate how it was originally (I can't figure out what that was anyway) and I'd like it bright and summery. Maybe yellow or green with a little bit of white to highlight some of the moulding? What do you think? Edit: yes 14 ft |
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Post by hilldweller on Mar 6, 2011 8:34:50 GMT 10
Hilldweller. I missed the start of this thread but welcome to the forum. I actually have a NZ van. It is a 1968 Munro Pixie 10 manufactured by Munro in Otrohaunga and sold new by John Withers Caravan Centre in New Plymouth. (All this info is from the badges attached to the van) Unfortunately the records Munro held for these were lost in a fire but if you ever see these vans I'd appreciate any photos as I want to compare the layouts of the stove/fridge/sink and bed area. Rollydog Will keep a lookout - sounds like a cute van. It would be worth you checking out Trademe listings from time to time. That's a good source of pics. Also, I'm pretty sure CI Munro is still in business - you could perhaps contact them for info. |
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Post by seeshell on Mar 6, 2011 11:50:12 GMT 10
Hi Hilldweller I missed the beginning of the thread and have just caught up now - what a fantastic looking van! I think you'll have a lot of fun just doing your research, looking at pictures of other similar vans, and deciding how you want to proceed. With a clear shell, the world is your oyster! Welcome to the forum - Seeshell |
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Post by RollyDog on Mar 9, 2011 21:16:48 GMT 10
I contacted CI Munro but unfortunately their records went in a fire in 84 I think.
Trade me is a good source of info. I bought a 74 Sunbeam Rapier fastback through Trade Me a few years back. It was at
Te Awamutu so I flew in, drove it around for two weeks including Rotorua Swap meet and Taupo etc and then shipped it back. That car was sold to Melbourne and I haven't heard of it since.
I'll just keep looking at trade Me as the Munro Pixie's come up from tiem to time so i am collating some interior shots. I have a few months before I start changing things inside anyway so no rush.
Rollydog
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Post by hilldweller on Mar 20, 2011 8:33:26 GMT 10
Rollydog there's a pixie on TM at the moment. Is that the same as yours?
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. It's a project LOL - just a fibreglass shell on wheels - and going to be a challenge as I'm all new to this. The brand name is Caravelle but from the pics I've seen on here it's nothing like what you call a caravelle but oddly enough is very similar to a Kennedy. Different front and rear windows and I think the roof might be a bit different but the sides look identical 
. I can have a go at wrestling with photobucket if you like. 
Great to know who manufactured it boblor - thanks for that 
