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Post by kaybee on Oct 10, 2009 21:30:11 GMT 10
G'day folks ,some of you would have seen that we have our Castle van for sale.....reason is, we've found an original old van that was hand built during WW2. This only came about on Thursday by following a link to Ebay from a friend on Ozrodders forum.....dialed it up and saw this funny old van in the bush,saw it was just up the street in Healesville and figured we better just go and have a look. This is where it has been sitting ,in a bush block right near where some of the Vic. bushfires were recently..... ...and yeah, it does look a bit ordinary ....but....it came with a full documented history , handwritten by the gent who built it and beginning in 1943 with the purchase of a pair of '38 Ford wheels.....every part,nut,bolt,fittings,etc are recorded....even some drawings of components. It's a bit hard to decipher in some places, being written in a cursive script , but it includes even the serial numbers of the tyres as well as details of the trips away , how much it cost for camp sites, etc,etc. One of the attractions was the integrated towing dolly wheel setup on the drawbar....then I had a bit of a look underneath the van.....WOW....what a work of art.....the engineering that has gone into the construction of the underside is amazing....it looks a bit scruffy in the photo's because there's a lot of peeling paint and a few cobwebs , but it's solid as a rock and completely functional..... .....this makers plate is fitted to the towing dolly , but it's such a complex piece of engineering that it's hard to imagine it as a commercially available item.....maybe some detail in the logbook that we have yet to discover...... ....but the rest all seems to be hand built ,one off construction.....there's rivetted fittings and gusset plates,adjustable clevis ends , pulleys , axle anchor system and the beefiest drop axle I've ever seen ....brakes are '37/8 Ford cable type , vac operated but fitted with a cable handbake system that overrides the vac. setup. .....and some topside pics.....rear bumper is a pair of FX/FJ items joined in the middle with a neat cover plate..... the van has suffered some ah....shall we say "restoration".....a slurp of some of that late model "effects" textured paint here and there.....fortunately the people responsible got sick of that and moved on .... ...and we bought the first parts for it this morning just before we went to pick it up....thes nifty Deco era handles were at a Garage sale for 50c......the van needs some handles either end to make moving it around a bit easier.....the red glass lens/light is off the van , it was hanging by the wiring and we clipped it off before it got lost on the journey home.... There are a few more pics (oh goody,you say )....but Photobucket sent them into orbit somewhere.....so when we find them we'll add them on.....cheers, Col.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Oct 10, 2009 22:14:51 GMT 10
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Post by DC3Td on Oct 10, 2009 22:20:50 GMT 10
Amazing van. No chance of it bottoming out with that leaf spring setup. And while it & the chassis appear to have been engineer overkilled, it stands testament to the decades of its survived life. The Dolly wheels themself are a work of art. Wow, this van is going to look so good once you`ve run your magic wand over it. Great find. cheers gordon
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Post by cobber on Oct 11, 2009 5:44:28 GMT 10
G'day Col , You sound slightly excited by this rare find. Just about every feature on it is unique. The suspension set up and the dolly wheel look as though the builder expected to carry heavy stuff in it...... and the electricity wiring ... and the way the lantern roof has been constructed.... different. Put together by an individual I'd say Thing is...... what are you going to do with it I've been to healesville, and found an "Expanda van"...how come my radar didn't find this one too Cobber.
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Post by kaybee on Oct 11, 2009 7:12:22 GMT 10
G'day Col , You sound slightly excited by this rare find. Just about every feature on it is unique. The suspension set up and the dolly wheel look as though the builder expected to carry heavy stuff in it...... and the electricity wiring ... and the way the lantern roof has been constructed.... different. Put together by an individual I'd say Thing is...... what are you going to do with it I've been to healesville, and found an "Expanda van"...how come my radar didn't find this one too Cobber. G'day Cobber , excited ,amazed, impressed,.....yep...all of that, particularly when you consider that the build was done during the war , a time of heavy restrictions and rationing ,material and manpower shortages.......the story is that the builder was an engineer in the railways , and the rail workshops were heavily involved in the war effort, but somehow the fellow was able to find the time and secure the materials to embark on this project . The log book details all the purchases ,docket/receipt numbers and the suppliers names too , maybe a necessary precaution on his part to prevent any suggestion of pilfering restricted materials. Some of the receipts show his address in Hamilton near Newcastle as being just up the road from a certain person in Barnsley ;D. ...."what are we going to do with it?".....for a little while it will go into storage while I catch up with all the other stuff I've got to do , right at the moment we're still "exploring" it's features and eccentricities while we dry it out ( it's been a bit wet here recently and there's a few of the windows not fitted)...... I removed some of the lower panelling in the interior and the Lino yesterday, a little damp at the front but it all looks very sound and no rot....van frame looks super sturdy and it might be Blackwood or similar. All the timber joints are tight and most have T shaped gussets along with screws....no staples anywhere..... The long term plan is to restore it and retain as much of the originality as possible , although it will need to have a pair of steel mudguards made up to fill in the giant wheel arches and maybe re-arrange the tail lights a bit. All the external panelling will need to be replaced , the weather has de-laminated all the plywood. Probably won't make a start on it until later next year.....have to repaint the '57 Pickup ( lemon and white this time) and a few other odd jobs .....and we've recently bought another project car that will match nicely with this era of van.... ....it's a '48 Chevy Sedan Delivery , should make a nice pair..... oh,and the reason you didn't find it on your foray down Healesville way was that it was so deep into the undergrowth that you could drive right past and not see it....we did! ....there's also an early unusual styled Aluminium van with forward slanted wrap around windows in the same road too.....cheers, Col.
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Post by firefighter on Oct 11, 2009 7:51:25 GMT 10
onya Col & Kris What a little ripper..........we just never know whats still out there waiting for us to find like 1 of our members followed up on the skyline I put in the for sale section the other day at Bayswater turned out to be a sunliner Come on Col pull the finger out and finish the van and 48 chev in time for the nationals in may .....only 6 months to go f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by JBJ on Oct 11, 2009 8:06:16 GMT 10
Hi Kaybees,
Thats a great find. Does that mean you will be attacking every clump of scrub with defoliant and chain saws now, to see what ele is hidden?
Love the Chebby, I dont think I've seen one the same in Oz before.
I'll keep my eyes open for the sill moulds. Theres still a few of the sedans around. Would the Aussie bodied sedans use the same moulds?
JBJ
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Post by Geoff & Jude on Oct 11, 2009 9:22:29 GMT 10
Hi Col & Kris,
What an amazing find & a great save of a piece of caravanning history.
Will be a show stopper when you guys have finished making her all beautiful again
Jude & Geoff
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Post by myvan on Oct 11, 2009 9:53:34 GMT 10
Hello I love the style and shape of the van
Great find
Kathryn
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Post by 1954homemade on Oct 11, 2009 10:25:38 GMT 10
Dear Kris and Col,
Wow what a great find.
I love all the extra little details on it.
Congratulations on the new purchase and on the sale of the Castle.
Luv Di
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Post by kaybee on Oct 11, 2009 14:28:31 GMT 10
G'day again , thanks everyone for your enthusiastic responses.... ...we're both really pleased to have a van like this, especially one with a lantern type roof (Kris's favourite ).....I've run off a few pics of the dolly and the tow hitch....hoping Cobber might have some insight into the workings of it and be able to say what ,if anything, is missing..... ....I guess you could just slide the pin thru the towbar in place of the ball, but it doesn't really allow for the sort of movement you need when travelling over dips in the road , driveway entrances an such.....would tend to load up and stress the pin or towbar until it fatigued.....? ...these next 2 shots show the details of how the dolly is mounted under the frame in an encapsulated ball type arrangement..... ...seems to work on the caster principle and follow the lead of the towed vehicle ( I hope ).....there is a flat rubbing block that the unit swivels on ( the oily bit about a foot back from the ball fitting).... ....makes the Hutchinson dolly look a little plain in comparison..... ....and since it's no longer needed I'll put it in the For Sale section.... ....The van is now safely tucked away out of the weather, the Castle has been kicked outside in preparation for it's migration Northwards ;D... thanks again and best regards, Col.
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Post by cobber on Oct 11, 2009 15:30:59 GMT 10
G'day Col, She is a work o f art aye? I'd take it to a hot rod type of bloke if I was you...they're pretty ingenious types at solving this sort of problem. Maybe you could suggest he figure out how to adapt one of those "Trigg poly block" type of couplings to it.... let me know what he thinks of the idea Do you mind if I copy one of those photos to the Dolly Wheel thread in DHL . Cobber.
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Post by 56vicky on Oct 11, 2009 15:33:52 GMT 10
very nice find
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Post by kaybee on Oct 11, 2009 15:43:41 GMT 10
G'day Col, She is a work o f art aye? I'd take it to a hot rod type of bloke if I was you...they're pretty ingenious types at solving this sort of problem. Maybe you could suggest he figure out how to adapt one of those "Trigg poly block" type of couplings to it.... let me know what he thinks of the idea Do you mind if I copy one of those photos to the Dolly Wheel thread in DHL . Cobber. ...a work o' fart eh?.... ;D.....and yep...feel free to copy away! PS....so what is a trigg poly block when it's at home?
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Post by Roehm3108 on Oct 11, 2009 16:42:35 GMT 10
What an incredible find guys. ;D ;D Us "amateur" restorers would find it impossible to work out the mechanics of that front dolly system let alone get it operating again as it was designed. I reckon if anyone can work it out, it would have to be someone with your expertise, Col, and I'm sure you will. Not sure that the treg hitch would do what Cobber is suggesting, as the system must hinge aft of the dolly wheel in some way, to stop the bottoming out effect. I'm sure you will enjoy sussing out how the whole thing works, and then you can tell us all about it Good luck!! Ray
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Post by Don Ricardo on Oct 11, 2009 18:34:55 GMT 10
Hi Kaybee and Kris, Great to see some more pics of your new van. Fantastic tail light cluster - looks like they didn't want to be overlooked (which is fair enough)! Love the 'Air Brakes' sign which I just noticed as well. Maybe that's why they needed the big tail light? ;D ;D ;D As you may have noticed (or not ), Cobber and I have been doing some work on pre-WW2 vans for the Down History Lane section over the last few days - yes, I know, we should get out more - and it is fascinating to note the similarities between your lantern roof vans and some of the pre-war vans in terms of design. For example the Land Cruiser van on the front of the leaflet you posted a while back: You have headed this thread '1947 lantern roof van', and I presume this indicates that all though it was commenced in 1943 it wasn't completed until 1947? In any case it is fantastic that another pre-WW2 style van has been added to the fold. I have noted that some of the old vans were painted in quite dark colours. Apparently the Land Cruisers were painted with a black lower half and green upper half with a silver roof (guess that's what's in the pic?). Now there's an example you might like to follow............or maybe not! I think that trend died just before 1943! PS Like the Chev as well. Will make a nice combo. Don Ricardo Disclaimer: None of the above should be taken as advice direct or indirect on what the van should be painted. It is intended as historical comment only... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by kaybee on Oct 11, 2009 19:31:11 GMT 10
Hi Kaybee and Kris You have headed this thread '1947 lantern roof van', and I presume this indicates that all though it was commenced in 1943 it wasn't completed until 1947? Hi Richard , the starting date is listed as 12/1/43 and the date it was first registered was 23/12/46.....but it also says it was 95% finished at that time. There is a neat litle chrome plaque on the cupboard that says.... ..... that....so I'm guessing '47 was the date Rowland considered it completely finished . Colour schemes...I can tell you that it was painted in Dulux paint......he bought 1 quart of "not light blue" and 4 1/2 pint tins of Pale Cream on 13/11/45 for 4 Pounds 15 shillings and 6 pence.....give you the docket number too if you like ;D....... One thing that is mentioned a few times in the Log is a co-op, The Newcastle and Suburban Co-op Society Ltd., it seems the tyres were purchased from there , he carefully notes the serial numbers of the tyres and in which position on the car or van they were fitted , and when they were returned to the Co-op after being worn out....presumably for either re-treading or re-grooving......and then the numbers of the tyres he replaced them with. It's interesting stuff.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 20:58:42 GMT 10
Hi Col
What a great score mate. A real treasure. It never ceases to amaze me the stuff that keeps surfacing. Especially in Victoria and S.A.
The Newcastle co op was better known as "The Store" . The 3 storey building ( 2 above and 1 below ground level) is still there at the west end of Hunter street. No longer called the store. Being used as an indoor market . They folded back in the early 90s from memory. I dont remember them selling Auto parts/ tyres etc .. but then again .. i wasnt around in 1943. They had branches all around Newcastle suburbs. There is an old "Store" Building in Neighbouring "West Wallsend". I think still has "the Newcastle Store Co-operative 1910 " laid in the brickwork in the facade. We drove passed it on last years spring tour. Other branches that i can remember where Wallsend, Boolaroo. all gone now.
Cheers Reddo
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 21:53:52 GMT 10
nice one Col ......you've hit the jackpot finding a "lantern roof" van from the 40's .....vintage caravan collectors aspire to find one of them ;D....... and to get all the print history as well ......wow .....how good's that !!! Great to see such a treasure in good hands ............ Mark
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Post by Swellwillys on Oct 12, 2009 10:43:01 GMT 10
What a beautiful piece of art!
Great find guys!
Throughly enjoyed the photos - the engineering is stunning!
Enjoy the ride and I for one will be watching the progress of this one!
Regards, Swellwillys
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Post by sportsman 1 on Oct 12, 2009 11:48:26 GMT 10
Hi Col (& Kris),
Nice pick up, I figured you had something else going on when I saw the Castle for sale.
I saw the Ebay listing but it just looked like another old bondy in the bush. Then again if I was looking for one still I probably would have chased it up.
Regards the tow hitch, I think it might fit a Treg coupling. My Clipper has one on it if you want to have a look some time. They are fitted to modern off road trailers to give more articulation. I think there is some information in the tow coupling section or google Treg poly block couplings.
Good luck with it, will be another stunner from the house of Bates.
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Post by Surf Tragic on Oct 12, 2009 11:49:13 GMT 10
Now that's what I call interesting (understatement), all those mechanical bits .......... love it. The tow car looks perfect for it. ;)Did you put the nose of the Cusso out there to tempt me did you well ;D Surf Tragic
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Post by kaybee on Oct 12, 2009 14:45:26 GMT 10
;)Did you put the nose of the Cusso out there to tempt me did you well ;D Surf Tragic ....nah, that's just where it was parked..... but if it's gunna get you all excited ....here's the rest of it.... ..... ;D ;D
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Post by kaybee on Oct 12, 2009 15:03:58 GMT 10
nice one Col ......you've hit the jackpot finding a "lantern roof" van from the 40's .....vintage caravan collectors aspire to find one of them ;D....... and to get all the print history as well ......wow .....how good's that !!! Great to see such a treasure in good hands ............ Mark ...thanks Mark...have to try and do it justice restoration wise, but we won't be starting on it for a little while. Very nearly didn't bother even looking at it , the pics on Ebay didn't really show much but it was only up the road a bit, and it was a nice night for a drive ...... but at first glance it looked like a nightmare , it was also pretty dark by the time we got to the place so it was a bit hard to see much ....but once we'd had a bit of a scout around it and found the dolly set....then the lantern roof....then had a roll around underneath and saw all the neat features .....we raced home to hit the "buy it now option" and made the arrangement to meet up with the owner there the next day ( it was on an unihabited bush block) and handed over the necessary......then back again on Saturday morning to extract it from it's resting place and trailer it home.......cheers...
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Post by Roehm3108 on Oct 12, 2009 15:09:21 GMT 10
Hi Col Were you aware that Jim, of Jim's photo instructions fame) is right into development of van hitches? He lived around your area too. Don't really know what's happened to him these days, but I have some phone numbers which I can PM if interested.
Cheers
Ray
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