Road speed!

[getaway]

Just a query.

What speed do you fellow caravanners travel at on the highway?

My van tows very nicely at 90 k.p.h.

It gets a bit twitchy at 100 k.p.h.

On the other side of the coin, being a "B-Double" driver I can understand how frustrating it is when stuck behind a caravan travelling at 90 k.p.h.
This frustration causes some truck drivers to take un necessary risks which is a danger to "all" road users.

What is the answer? What are your experiences?

Any feedback would be very much appreciated.

Mick.

[JBJ]

hi Mick,


I always believe anyone should only drive at a speed that they feel comfortable with.( or around the speed limit if thats within the range)

I'm lucky I've got 2 powerful towcars, that can do whatever speed I want to when towing.

But having said that, a lot of older vans dont like travelling too fast. If you have to go under the speed limit, thats your right.

I definitely wouldn't recomend going any faster than your van likes, its too dangerous if they get the wobbles ( which many vans do )

I also believe that overtaking is the responsibility of the overtaker.

I know coming home from Mt. Gambier I was travelling along on the highways at the speed limit, & finding some ( & only some) of the B-doubles were travelling faster than me on the flat & down hill. I then overtook them on the hills because I had the power to do so.

Generally I found it a pain , & quite often ended up pulling over for a break to let them get ahead a bit.

It can be very scarey getting overtaken by a double, & finding they have to cut back in a tad too soon. I nearly got clobbered a few times, & in the end on the Hawkesbury Freeway, I ended up travelling at 90 KPH in the slow lane to let all the speed racers get past.


I guess its what you feel safe with,

Jailbarjuice

[atouchofglass]

Greetings Getaway

Got to agree 90km/h is about my limit until I'm on a long open road out West and then it creeps up to 100K

Just enjoy the fact that you're not at work and the van is towing nicely.

Gives me a perverse sort of happiness....
_{sumthin rong with that boy}


The truckies need to recognise that others use the road as well as they do.

Having said that I try to give them all the opportunities to pass safely whenever possible.... they are on a schedule after all.

Atog

[tonyh]

Hi Mick, It's all about getting the weight distribution right. The old rule of thumb is 10% of your vans weight on the tow ball. When I put on the rear bar with two spares and a bike rack, I lengthened the draw bar to fit a box for annex etc, twin gas bottles and a battery. When finished I moved the weight inside the van so I got over 10% on the ball. With or without the 4 lift bars on it travels beautifully at 110 kmh. Although it doesn't need the bars I have kept them because it seems to reduce the YAW or wind impact when a large vehicle such as a B double goes past. Hope this helps. Cheers, tonyh ;D

[Daggsey]

HI Mick,

I am presently travelling around Oz with my fuel-injected FC Holden and 12' Valiant and find that for me, 70 - 80kms is fast enough. My eyes are constantly in my revision mirrors for faster traffic (trucks included) and I try to get over when possible. The speed I travel is for 2 reasons.....because we are travelling for an extended period of time, we have more weight on board than normal, so I like to be in control.
The other reason for the lower speed is that, yes, as much as I hate to admit it, we are tourists and we believe that there is a difference between "seeing Australia" and "going around Australia" (which I believe is all anyone doimg more than 100kph is doing.)

I have as much right through the taxes I pay to be on the road as the next person, but I am also conscious of holding up traffic and try to be as accomodating as possible. What does get up my nose is the (very few) cowboys in trucks (and some car drivers) that feel it is their right to intimidate anyone going slower and sit 6' off your backside, especially when they can see it is impossible to pull over out of their way .

Yes, there are deadlines that a lot of trucks have to meet and a lot of that is caused by companies, not individual drivers.......that shouldn't be a permit to use our highways as racetracks putting other motorists lives at risk. As a former volunteer St John Ambulance officer, we were always taught to drive to the conditions......I can't see why this doesn't apply to every driver on the road.

Daggsey

[humpty2]

Good insurance when travelling on the highways and mixing it with the trucks .......a $50 hand held UHF 2way radio tuned to channel 29, Brisbane to Sydney on the Pacific Highway and channel 40 everywhere else.
Just acknowledge the presence of the truck coming up behind you and tell him "you are doing your best and will assist him when he wants to go around".
9 times out of 10 he will want to talk to you about your "rig".
Most of us travel comfortably at about 90 but as mentioned a lot depends on the van not really the car.
Regards all...........Truckdriving Humpty. ;D ;D

[whippy]

G'day Mick, finally settled in at Romsey.

I still haven't mastered this towing caper and am experimenting with every tow, I have tried to take alot of the weight off the front of the van and my next step is to remove the tool box off the draw bar and reduce the amount of tools carried in the van. When I went to Cowes, We were able to sit on 100 K's without much stress, did get the sways up a couple of times. I put everything that was heavy to the rear of the wheels which has definately improved the towing.

Next job is to put the spare at the back of the van.

I just acquired some level riders, hopefully they will improve the towing. It appears to me there is a bit of experimenting needed to get this right.

[Daggsey]

With all due respect Humpty, the UHF radio is a handy tool, but shouldn't be a necessary one. If everyone drove to the road conditions, there wouldn't be an issue. Likewise, if everyone towing a caravan or an elderly person driving at 80kph in a 100kph zone moved over when the first safe opportunity arose, there wouldn't be an issue either.

Like Jailbar said, the onus of safety when overtaking should be on the person overtaking.

Interesting that this matter should arise today........I have just finished reading an article in today's Sydney Sun-Herald where the NSW Gov't is looking at new laws which mean businesses sending and receiving goods can also be charged if truckies break speed and fatigue laws.

I was always of the understanding that heavy vehicles, including buses were limited to 100kph.

I also find it interesting that talking on a UHF radio is legal, but talking on a hand-held mobile phone is not. Can someone explain to me the difference?

Daggsey

[tinnie]

Gday,
I find towing a van an interesting experience for me.
I must confess to being a lead foot in the car, (but within conditions), but a totally different story when towing a van
.
When towing, even though the car would do it at whatever speed I decided, and likewise the old Franklin would sit there, I have usually sat at about 85-90km max.
WHY? Easy, firstly, I consider that the van was built to travel at less speed than that being built in the early sixties, and being as old as it is, I want to look after it.
Secondly, I believe in driving at less speed than I am comfortable with when towing to allow for having to avoid other drivers errors or stupidity. Unfortunately, there are a lot of morons on the road with no idea of what it takes to stop or manouvere a rig when towing.

Finally, and most importantly, I have my family on board, and value their safety.

If people don't like my driving speed they can jam it, travelling speed all comes out in the wash anyway, trucks pass you on the flat only to die in the rear at the next hill. As for timetables, well we all have timetables at work and if drivers can't evaluate the difference between making $$ for their boss and threatening life, well.....that decision is theirs.

Similarly, speedsters will stop at the next 'golden arches' for tucker, whilst you pass them by.

I have always tried to be courteous and move over if I am holding someone up, but I make no apology for driving sensibly when towing, and none of us should!

Safe travels!
Gristy

[Deleted]

;D
I drive to the speed limit and/or the road conditions.
Wipe off 10kph in wet weather and give myself 2 car lengths or 1 second between me and the car in front for every 10kph of speed ... even more in the wet.
If it says 110kph i will stick to it if the car is capable of maintaining that speed while hauling a van. 110k zones tend to be on boring stretches of hwy and usually you arent missing much in the way of scenery anyway so better off just concentrating on your driving.

I find that if you maintain a reasonable turn of speed you will get over some hills without going down through gears and driving your car and van like a fulyl loaded truck .... saves the car heating up and wastes less fuel.
Check my mirrors about every 30 seconds to a minute to see what coming up behind me.
If i am on a multi lane hwy i always try to hang in the slow lane. If I see a semi coming up fairly quickly i will maintain speed and edge over to the left of my lane and brace myself for the wind drag as the truck goes past. It tends to drag you across the lane towards the trucks trailer. Once they go past it sort of "releases" you from its grip and that causes the car and van to sway a bit. if you have seen the truck coming it prepares you better . Bit of a shock when one of the big suckers come sailing past and you find yourself swaying around after he has gone past.

I use to use load levellers. I dont anymore. As most people have stated , if you pack your gear in the van sensibly and down low , providing the towball weight is around 10% and your cars rear springs are cap[abale of handling the load then you wont have a problem.

So yeah.. drive to the speed limit, check your mirrors regularly and be courteous to those that want to get around you .
Just dont be one of those arseholes that travel at 60kph on the single lane road holding miles of traffic up and then speed up to 110 when they come to an overtaking lane

Reddo

[Deleted]

Reddo says "If I see a semi coming up fairly quickly i will maintain speed and edge over to the left of my lane and brace myself for the wind drag as the truck goes past. It tends to drag you across the lane towards the trucks trailer. Once they go past it sort of "releases" you from its grip and that causes the car and van to sway a bit. "

The truck creates a vacuum between itself and your caravan and wants to"suck" the caravan into its side .......the best way to combat this effect Reddo is to, instead of maintaining speed, accelerate whilst the truck is overtaking ......the accelerating pulling forward motion of the tow vechicle keeps the caravan in line and eliminates most of the sway..........

Mark

[dosse]

G'day All
As a owner/driver of a semi-trailer my self, my advice would be the same as col's.And if
you have a UHF then you will know what he thinks of you( some-times not very nice) not
all drivers are like this, but how can you tell the difference, best get out of the way as
safely as possible.Some cowboys do not give a rats who pays road-tax .
Regards dosse.

[firefighter]

lifting your foot of the go pedal ,,,,for a few seconds as the truck
is passing can help the truck driver pass you safely
f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Geoff & Jude]

i agree with what mark says (and also with what kb says) except that when i see a truck coming up behind, i slow down about 5 k's, then as he starts to pass, i accelerate slowly back up to my original speed as he is passing.

the speed-up is not noticeable, but it puts the car/van combination into "tension" which reduces the tendency for the truck to "suck the van in" as much.

it works well without causing the truckie any aggravation (i think).

geoff 'n jude

[Deleted]

Nah Col ......no funny buggers .........watch your mirrors closely, when the truck nears close enough to overtake, slowly (not suddenly) reduce speed by say 8 to 10 kmh, then when his cab draws in line with your caravan, gently give more acceleration, if the caravan starts to get sucked in, flatten it …….done it heaps of times, especially across Australia where them trucks are big ……..works everytime …….no crashes

PS .....drafted this reply prior to the two preceding posts, but work interupted me and I didn't actually post my reply ......bloody work .....should be a law against it ;D ;D ;D

[Deleted]

Hey .......here's one for ya ......you are driving a 1970 Holden powered a 186, you're towing a 16' Millard caravan loaded up with all the gear for a 4 week caravanning holiday, you have two kids on board, and you catch up to a slow truck.

You know you're carrying alot of weight, and you don't have alot of power, so you wait until you have a huge stretch of open road before attemping to overtake the slow truck.

You pull out to overtake the truck, and draw along side it, then, bugga , you have your foot flat on the accelorator, and the ol' 186 just ain't gunna cut it .......so, you decide to abort the overtaking manouvre ........as soon as you lift your foot off the accelorator to abort, the caravan starts to get sucked into the side of the massive road train, so to stop the resultant sway, you accelerate again .......clear road is fast running out, what do you do

[mpower]

G'day Reddo,

In my oinion 110kph with a caravan in tow in an emergency situation could be disterous. I have no evidence or know of anyone being in this situation. It just seems to me, a slower speed would aid control in an emergency. Other forum members with more experience than me may be able to set me straight.

Hope you don't mind the comment

Mark and Maureen

Bendigo

[mpower]

Sorry for the disasterous" typo.

Mark

[firefighter]

mark

your a game man to pass the road train in the first place
with the 186 ......wife , kids on board, van fully loaded

if you do get pass him he will pass you again when he picks up speed & safe to pass

if stuck keep the foot on the.... go pedal just enough to let him draw away
then pull over and change your jocks
f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[rodp]

Im surprised that with the rapidly increasing price of fuel no one has mentioned that driving slower saves fuel.Especially when towing a caravan. Most of them have a pretty high CD( Aerodynamic drag co efficient). The difference between driving at 80 vs 100 kph can make a big difference to your fuel bill and doesn't make that much difference to your time on the road.

[Deleted]

Hi rodp and mpower
.
I have no problems with your comments about thinking 100 or 110kph is too fast with a van on. Someone else mentioned that towcar drivers should drive to thier ability and what they feel comfortable and competent at.

I have been spoilt these past 12 months because most of my van towing has been done with a teardrop van. They just tuck in behind the car and away ya go. I could sit on 110 all day long and the van didnt move.
My Bigger van Matilda use to sway about a bit. I towed it to Morgan in 2006 to the vint van nats with a 1986 turbo diesel landcruiser. It was happier at 100kph than it was at 80 or 90. smack in the middle of the turbos "happy spot" torque and turbo all working together. drop back to 80 and the auto would kick back and rev its arse off for no extra turn of speed.
The van sat up like a big wind sock ( high CD) because it was running high profile 16" wheels . this didnt help the handling either. Roads with a high crown in the centre caused the van to want to lean to the left hence causing a slow sway . the weight of the landcruiser kept it in check although it was noticeable in the mirrors.
If i had towed it with the ute i would have had to sit on 80kph to keep it under control. ( driving to the safe capabilities of the car/van set up). I came home and fitted 15" wheels with lower profile tyres. this dropped the van hieght about 2". It improved the handling outta sight and definitely lowered the CD... what price originality.
Much safer now and using less fuel to drag it along.

As i said this morning. i will tow it at the speed limit but leave myself plenty of room between me and the car in front. The vans brakes are adjusted up correctly and the ute has excellent brakes.
I also said to drive to the conditions. if the road is crap, or if its raining i will drive 10kph slower or slower still if need be.
But an open highway shouldnt be a problem for a well set up car and van combo and a driver that his head turned on and tuned in to whats happening around him.
Of course there is the old worry of a blow out on the car or the van. The results can be disasterous at any speed. all depends on how the driver reacts and where it happens i suppose.

As for fuel economy at higher speeds. It doesnt make much difference to me... the ute is on gas.. i have been paying 69.9cents per litre for over a year now.
I towed Hillbillys sunliner to Mt Gambier with the HR ute at 100 to 110kph when the signposts said i was allowed and it cost me $240 to go 1020 MILES or roughly 1600 K's Not too bad for an old 186 with a bit of a lumpy cam , dual throat carb and headers .At those figures i can afford to drive at a speed i feel is safe and know that the car isnt being laboured to death... i say get your car and van combo sorted out so it handles and stops well and ....... let it rev

thanks Mark for the tip about accelerating ( slowly) while a truck is overtaking . i have never tried that...In most cases planting your foot to the floor isnt going to envoke masses of wheel spin and acceleration anyway . i have found giving yourself as much gap between you and the truck in the lane beside you seems to work ok... just stay on the ball and be prepared for the"release" after thay get past ya. I would be more inclined to let him past.. flash my lights to let him know hes right to come back over and around about then try and pick a bit of pace up and slip stream him to the top of the hill if he's going that well.

Most of the time the reason for the trucks passing ya in the first place is because you are dying in the arse going up a hill and they still have a few 100hp in reserve.
I have driven diesel 4x4s for years. there is nothing worse than getting a run up at a hill and having someone doddling along in front of you in a petrol car. They get to the bottom of the hill and suddenly realise they have to put the foot down to get up it. By that stage you are off the thottle, loosing pace and drop back into the slow lane while the old mate in the petrol car motors on up the hill leaving you to work your way back up through the gears. I am sure any truck driver can relate to this and its a real pain in the bum.

The decision to overtake you was made long before you see him in your mirrors closing in fast. He has been looking a long way ahead of him .. not reading the car in fronts number plate like a lot of people do when travelling.
Bloke past me one day in a Kenworth Pantech like i was standing still. Got talking to him at a roadhouse a few hours down the road. Said he had a full load on.....Jesus mate what sorta motor have you got in your truck?... "just a stocky, i have a full load of ice cream cones on " ;D

Reddo

[winterwood]

We have been caravanners for the 15 or so years and we are fortunate to own 2 vans ... a new Jayco (yeah I know what you're thinking) and a recently acquired V V 1964 Globe Trotter (we sold our Don Cadet to Todd ... who is doing a great restoration job on it).

Notwithstanding they have been modern vans with the right towing equipment etc, in the past, we "sat her on" 100-105 kph (subject to the conditions allowing etc), but about 5 years ago decided to deliberately drop the speed to 90.

I found it far more relaxing, it allowed more time to see what was about and of course, what difference does an extra 30 minutes or so make when you are holidays?

I found this discussion very interesting and was very impressed with the comments of geoff 'n jude (reproduced below) and on our next trip will put this into practice.

"i agree with the comments what mark says (and also with what kb says) except that when i see a truck coming up behind, i slow down about 5 k's, then as he starts to pass, i accelerate slowly back up to my original speed as he is passing.

the speed-up is not noticeable, but it puts the car/van combination into "tension" which reduces the tendency for the truck to "suck the van in" as much.

it works well without causing the truckie any aggravation (i think).

geoff 'n jude"

Happy & safe travelling to all.

Winterwood

[Deleted]

Ummmm this leads me to ask the question.
... How do we know what speed the truck is doing
... How does our slowing down 5 mph and then accelerating make a difference when we dont know if the truck is doing 90 or 120KPH. past us.. our 5 kph variation surely wont change the "suck in " effect. and a lot of the time we arent going to be able to muster up that 30KPH difference in a very short space of time.
Sorry .. was never much good at physics. So i have learnt to challenge all theorys to better understand them.

Second question..... if 110kph is unsafe for towing why does just about every truck on the highway sit on this speed when they can. Answer i suppose is they are purpose built to tow heavy loads.


This leads us into another facet to all this talk about towing and road speed..

There is a lot of van towers out there that are "Part time.. twice a year towers"
for 99% of the year they use the family wagon to cart the family and groceries around. They are more than happy with the soft comfy ride that the standard mediocre suspension offers with a pram and an esky in the boot.
. Come holiday time they hook the van up and load the car and van to the hilt. Result is the bum of the car goes down and the nose goes skyward. They take off down the highway and get up to 80kph and then the dreaded sway sets in like a half set jelly....they panic.. slow down .....then mutter to 'emselve "Bloody caravan" ... instead of "Oh drat i should have looked at stiffening the rear end with some decent springs/ coils before i put the 3 tonne on the rear of the car.

Admittedly our cars arent designed for heavy loads. Utes and vans seem to handle it better than sedans or wagons as they already carry a few extra leaves in the springs and actually ride and handle better with a bit of a load on them. Might explain why i dont have too many dramas when towing. i have nearly always owned a ute, van or 4x4 with decent springs as a towcar.

Reddo

[paddles]

I haven't got much experience in towing vans, however i have got years experiance in towing horse floats, and I have this to say, when towing SLOW DOWN! When towing horses I refuse to go over 80, not a case of how it tows, a case of if the load shifts! (This can happen in a van I believe) Alright, stuff packed in a van is not likely to break a leg, however, it can jackknife, etc. People get overconfident when towing. and accidents can occur due to other idiots on the road. (Now I'm a leadfoot when not towing) however, if I come up behind someone towing, I slow down until I can safely overtake, and then I don't cut in too close! Many people who never tow, don't realise how a towed wieght can affect stopping distance. Overtaking is rarely a problem if travelling below the speed limit, and if allowable, I pull over to let the speed demons through. they can have a crash on the next corner all on thier own! (or the cops will get them)

[humpty2]

Firstly, you don't need to worry about numbers regarding speed Reddo, just slow back a little from the speed you were doing as the truck approaches from the rear and s t e a d i l y increase your speed as the truck overtakes. As said it is all about keeping the rig in tension ..........the car is in control, not the van.
Regarding speed of trucks........on the Pacific Highway when I am driving a car I too notice that trucks overtake me when I believe I am doing the speed limit.........by MY speedo.....however, when driving my truck on the same roads I am not overtaken (often) and my speed is limited to 100kph. Speedo error is to blame not the trucker.My truck speed is checked by GPS as is most trucks.