Hawthorn caravans - Hawthorn, Vic.

[Don Ricardo]

Well blow me down, Franklin1!!

That's a great observation, and may be you are correct. There are a few little differences in detail, for example the Hawthorn has a full aluminium front stone guard (ie right across the front), while the Owen Bailey van just has corner stone guards, but the vans do look quite similar.

But I don't know how we can prove that the vans were built by the same manufacturer, or who might have built them...

...except by looking at the Franklin advert in the same 1962 Winser...and oh, look, there's that van again. Same tow car too:


(Source: Keith Winser, Australian Caravan and Touring Manual for 1962, 1962, page 141)

I wasn't very observant when I checked through that Winser was I?

So that tells us that in the early 60's Hawthorn was sourcing some of its vans from Franklin. And that does raise a very interesting question about the Hawthorn Baby-Van. Does that mean it was built by Franklin as well? It doesn't look anything like any Franklin we've seen, I don't think, particularly the back window treatment. But then we haven't seen many small (9 or 10 ft) Franklins from the early 60's, so we don't know what they looked like. However, the Franklin photo posted above does include the comment that that particular model was built in sizes ranging from 9 ft to 12 ft, so maybe... Do you have any photos of baby early 60's Franklins in your collection?

As a side comment, it has always interested me that Hawthorn and Owen Bailey Caravans were less than a mile apart on the same road in Hawthorn, and I have pondered whether there was any co-operation between them. Well now we at least know that some of their vans were supplied by the same manufacturer.

Don Ricardo

[Franklin1]

Hi again, DonR

Do you have any photos of baby early 60's Franklins in your collection?

The earliest photo of a Franklin 'baby' caravan I found (when researching the Ballarat Courier newspaper in the Ballarat Library back in 2010), was this one from an advert dated 09 Nov 1956...




Then there is this one-page advertisement in a 1960 magazine for Franklin Caravans (I pinched the photo from an ebuy listing some years ago)...

 

The bottom left photo seems to be similar to the 'baby' van you mention.

cheers,
Al.

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Franklin1,

Thanks for posting the photos of the small Franklins. The front windows on the Franklin 1960 10ft model look similarish to those on the 1962 Hawthorn Baby-Van, but otherwise the shapes of the two vans are fairly different, particularly in the back panel and back window treatment. The rear of the Baby-Van looks like the mid-60's Globe Trotters, but after a fair bit of comparison I'm fairly sure the Baby-Van is not a Globe.

It would be interesting to see the 1962 9ft Franklin. My guess at this point is that what the Baby-Van is.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi all,

While we know that early on (late 40's up to the mid-50's) Hawthorn built some of its own caravans, we have been aware for some time that it also sourced a number of its other models from other manufacturers.

One Hawthorn model about which there has been quite a bit of discussion higher up this thread is this 1950's caravan, which belonged to kb3:



I speculated higher up the thread that this model Hawthorn might have been built by Adventurer in South Australia, and it does bear some of the characteristics of 50's Adventurers, or another South Australian manufacturer. However, as part of a discussion higher up the thread about how Hawthorn sourced some of its caravans in the early 1960's from Franklin, Franklin1 posted the following advert published in the Ballarat Courier on 9 November 1956:



While the photos are not terribly distinct, it is clear that the photo of the smaller Franklin in this advert bears a lot of similarity to kb3's Hawthorn. Note the overall shape, the double cambered roof, the single small front window (visible from the inside photos), the porthole window(s) in the sides, the shape of the wheel arch, and the shape and positioning of the coloured flash on the side.

This suggests that in the mid-50's Hawthorn may have been 'badge-engineering' some Franklin-built caravans with its own brandname.

One slightly puzzling feature is that photos of this model Hawthorn (and there are a few on this thread), appears to have a canvas covered roof - note the way the roof overlaps the walls of the van.  As far as we are aware, Franklin did not ever build caravans with canvas covered rooves.  That therefore does leave open the question whether in the early years Franklin - along with Hawthorn - may have sourced some of its smaller caravans from a third party.  Again there is no previous indication that that happened, but I guess it's a possibility?

Don Ricardo

---

Addendum: A link to a Time to Roam website article provided by Shesgotthelook tells us that after producing his first caravan for his own use in 1947, Franklin founder Geoffrey Robertson began producing Franklin caravans which initially at least were sold on consignment by Les Gough's Hawthorn Caravans in Melbourne. So it would appear that the caravan shown in this post, and a number of other Hawthorn branded (but not built by Hawthorn) caravans were indeed very likely to have been built by Franklin. More info here. That's an unexpected answer to some of our questions!

[Don Ricardo]

Info on a Hawthorn caravan from the 1958 Winser Caravan Manual:


(Source: Keith Winser, Australian Caravan and Touring Manual, Book 10, 1958, page 125)

This photo shows yet another model sold by Hawthorn, which almost certainly was built by another manufacturer. But who?

The three striped flash on the side of the Hawthorn reminded me of the unusual flash shown in this photo of an unidentified van posted by Elvie on 14 August 2017:



There are a couple of other similarities between the two vans as well, namely the shape of the wheel arches, and the construction of the windows. However, the writing on the back of the van in Elvie's photo doesn't seem to say Hawthorn, and Hawthorn doesn't seem to have used a signwritten brandname on their vans past about 1956. But the three similar features mentioned - particularly the unusual flashes - does make one wonder whether there might be a connection between the two vans, and about a possibility they may have been built by the same manufacturer.

Can anybody provide further info about the origins of either van?

Don Ricardo

---

Addendum: Hughdeany has pointed out in the post below that there are more differences than similarities between the two vans shown, which makes it unlikely that they have a common heritage.

And while I'm at it, there are a couple of interesting points to note from the Hawthorn photo:

• At the rear of the vans is a sign saying 'Burwood Caravans'. Burwood was Les Gough's other caravan brandname.
• To the right of the van under discussion above, is the glimpse of another caravan with a porthole window. The shape of that van is different to the one on the left, and appears to have a double cambered roof. It looks like it might be one of the Franklin built vans sold by Hawthorn.
  

[hughdeany]

Hi Don,
Sorry but I will have to disagree with you on this one!
The two vans are a different shape,the lights and power inlet are in different places,and the floor line is flat.The smaller van has a more upright appearance,while the larger is “ softer”
I think the only similarities are the wheel arch,the stripe and the wooden frame windows.
Cheers
hughdeany

[Don Ricardo]

G'day Hughdeany,

I think you are right in everything you say. I think I got a bit over excited about the flash on the sides, which is not very common, but I did note the different floorline, and the fact that the shapes of the two vans were only similarish.

I've amended my post accordingly.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi all,

The quest to unravel the origins of the caravans badged as Hawthorns continues...

Wanderlust888 has sent me photos of his Hawthorn which he has used as his home away from home at Lightning Ridge. It may be another example of a Hawthorn-badged Franklin from around 1959 or 1960, although there is no visible sign of the 'Franklin shelf' in the galley (which raises the question of when Franklin may have introduced that signature feature?).

I'm open to other suggestions, and Wanderlust888 will be interested in opinions too.

























Don Ricardo

[shesgotthelook]

Phoenix, Lylack or Huntsman

[Don Ricardo]

Hi SGTL,

Huntsman is a definite possibility, although we don't have any record of Hawthorn sourcing its vans from them, and we do have records of Hawthorn vans being re-badged Franklins from 1956 through to the early 60's.

Lylack sourced its vans from Huntsman so that takes us back to the same place I think. Given that both Phoenix and Hawthorn were competing in the Melbourne market, I wouldn't have thought that Phoenix would have wanted their vans sold as re-badged Hawthorns, but then again I guess it was all about sales volume in the caravan market at that stage, so maybe...

Wanderlust888 is going to get the serial number from the A-frame next time he is in Lightning Ridge, so that will be a further clue, or even proof one way or another.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi VV Sleuths,

Wanderlust888 has sent me a photo of the serial number on the A-frame of his Hawthorn-badged caravan at Lightning Ridge (see pics above):



As you can see the serial number is 'HL14'.

There was a suggestion that this Hawthorn was built by Franklin, as some 50's and 60's Hawthorns were, however the serial number is not in the right format for a Franklin. After racking my brains a bit and hunting around the forum, I found a post about a Lylack caravan here with the serial number 'HL5'. We know that Lylack caravans were built by Huntsman in Ballarat, and we wondered whether the 'HL' in the Lylack's serial number might stand for 'Huntsman Lylack', but that was sheer speculation.

All the same the serial number on Wanderlust888's van, almost certainly indicates that it was built by Huntsman...and we can speculate whether it might have originally been built for Lylack and/or sourced by Hawthorn through Lylack. In any case it seems that we can add Hunstman to Carapark, Franklin and Moreland as sources of vans for Hawthorn in the 50's and 60's.

So another mystery solved.  But who should get the trophy for originally suggesting that Wanderlust888's van might have Huntsman and Lylack connections? Shesgotthelook, that's who!!  Hats off to you SGTL.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hawthorn advert published in the Melbourne Age on Saturday, 21 July 1956 (page 24):


(Source: http://www.newspapers.com)

We have established higher up this thread that this model Hawthorn was built by Franklin, but it is helpful to have a Hawthorn advert with a date.

Don Ricardo

[blinky]

In relation to Barb and Billies Hawthorn, I bought mine 32 years ago in Werribee from an older couple
who bought the caravan to go to the 1956 olympic games. I own the yellow and black one. towed by yellow and black FC.

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Blinky,

Welcome to the forum. It’s great to hear from you, and to find out a bit more about your van.

It would be terrific if you could post a photo of it with your car. They’re a great combination and I’m sure a lot of forum members would love to see them. There are instructions on how to post photos in the ‘Forum Guidelines & Helpful Hints’ section of the forum. Basically you have to do it via a web based photo storage website, such as Flickr or Post Image. Alternatively you can email a photo to me at [e-mail] and I’ll be happy to post it for you.

I’m a bit confused by your comment that the van was bought by the original owners to attend the Olympic Games in Melbourne in 1956. The style of the van plus the adverts we’ve got for that model Hawthorn indicate that it was being sold in the early 60’s rather than the mid 50’s. The vans being sold by Hawthorn in 1956 were an older style. Is it possible that the couple bought the van to attend the Commonwealth Games in Perth in 1962? I’m not meaning to be rude, just trying to put the pieces of the jigsaw together. I’ll be interested to know what you think.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi all,

In July 2019 Blinky told us about his cream/yellow and black 10 ft Hawthorn caravan that he tows with a matching Holden FC station wagon (see posts immediately above). Below is a photo of Blinky’s rig which I found in November 2019, possibly on Facebook:



Note the red, diamond shape Hawthorn serial number plate on the rear of the van.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi all,

I had an email from a new forum member Jmac a week or so ago providing some fascinating information about the tow vehicle that is just visible in this Hawthorn advert published in the 1962 edition of the Winser caravan manual:

(Source: Keith Winser, Australian Caravan and Touring Manual for 1962, 1962, page 147)

We have already established (see post higher up this thread) that the Hawthorn van in the advert was actually built by Franklin, and was also sold not only as a Franklin and as a Hawthorn, but also as an Owen Bailey caravan (see here).  However, as mentioned, this post concerns the tow vehicle, a bit more of which can be seen in this Franklin advert for the same caravan:

(Source: Keith Winser, Australian Caravan and Touring Manual for 1962, 1962, page 141)

In his email to me, Jmac wrote:

[The] picture of a van and part of a car is of interest to me. Keith Winser's AC&T Manual 1962 page141 shows the back end of a 1949 Ford I believe to [have] belong[ed] to Les Gough.
I first saw this car in 1959.  It used to park in Murphy St Richmond opposite Jaques Engineering Works.  Being a one off special body it stayed in my mind.
[In] 1972 I found it as a part car and purchased it, rebuilt it and still retain the car today.
I would be interested if you or any of the caravan world has any further information or photo's of this car as it was used as Hawthorn Caravans' tow car for a period of time.

Jmac has since sent me a photo of the car as it is now, and explained why it is different from a regular 1949 Ford:

Pleased to see your interest in Les Gough's Ford.  I have more info for you.  I first saw this car in 1959 usually parked around Jaques Engineering area in Coppin, Murphy & Palmer Sts Richmond.  With a fair knowledge of 1949 - 1951 Fords I knew this was different, as only sedans and utes were sold in Australia.  In 1971 I found this car for sale, it was only a parts car but the body was in good condition.
I had 1951 parts available, the bodies are the same [for the] 1949 - 1951 years, so with some work I rebuilt it.
In Custom Rodder magazine 1976-77 No 38 page 6 an article by John Keane ( see below), just a few words, told me a little more of the car's history.
From Keith Winser's AC&T manual 1962 page 141 photo, I can identify the following: 1. Car shown has no rear door. As the rear door back edge would be visible over the wheel arch.  2. The roof line at boot level is well forward when aligned with the wheel arch indicating a short coupe style roof.  3. The fuel filler and lid assembly and position is a local assembly only, different to imported assembly's on 2 door models.  4. Looking at the boot hinge position it is well forward when aligned with the wheel arch indicating a longer than standard boot lid. All sedan, coupes and convertibles have a standard boot lid. No other 49-51 Ford has a long boot lid.
Attached photo shows the car as it is now, the body remains the same, but bolt on trim has been upgraded to 1951 model shown by: 1. 1951 side trim runs around boot, 49 finishes short.  2. Tail lights and it's side trim are 51.  3. Bumper bar is 51.  4. Hub caps are 51. The car still has its old lines as in the mid 50's.

It is interesting to know that the car in the Hawthorn, Franklin and Owen Bailey publicity shots actually belonged to Les Gough, the proprietor of the Hawthorn caravans business, and I think it reflects that there was quite a close working relationship between Les Gough and Geoff Robinson, the owner of Franklin Caravans, as has been discussed in other posts.

Incidentally, Jmac is a pretty committed vintage vanner.  In his email he told me:

I have [had a] long interest in vans (see pic's).  My 1971 15 ft 5 berth Travelhome although not vintage, was bought as a 4 week old trade-in from Blue Horizon in Nepean Hwy, Cheltenham in October 1971.  I still own and use it with my 1962 compact Fairlane, a trusted tow car that I [have] also owned for over 50 years.  Both are well used and still in good condition and used as required.
The photo's are from a recent trip along the Murray River.

Extra special thanks to Jmac for sharing this information and his photos which provide us with another little glimpse into the history of the Australian caravan industry in the 60's. And it is great to know that the car concerned is still around and being preserved by Jmac.

(Please note that I have lightly edited some of Jmac's email text for the sake of clarity.)

Don Ricardo

[jameslg]

Hi all I’m Les Gough,s great grand son great to see the talk about our family’s caravan history. To the person JMAC who has that Ford coupe I’m very very seriously interested in that vehicle.

[Don Ricardo]

HI Jameslg,

Welcome to the Forum. It is fantastic when we hear from members of the family of the caravan manufacturers from the Vintage era. They can often provide an insight into the background and activities of the people involved. They were so often great innovators and visionary entrepreneurs.

I have done a bit of research into your great grandfather's background, and discovered a bit about his midget car racing career. Unfortunately, I haven't written it up yet, but must do so because it seems he had a great story.

If you'd like to contact me by PM (Personal Message) via the 'Messages' button on the Forum menu bar or email me at [e-mail] I'll be glad to try and put you in contact with Jmac. Perhaps we can have a chat about your great grandfather as well?

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Advert for Hawthorn and Burwood Caravans published in the Melbourne Age on Saturday, 31 October 1953 (page 44):


(Source: Newspapers.com www.newspapers.com/image/123080388/?match=1&clipping_id=140012173 )

The caravan in the photo is one of the Hawthorn caravans with leadlight windows, of which there are several examples on this thread. However note the very short distance between the left hand side of the door frame and the front edge of the caravan. This appears to be an example of a 2-berth Hawthorn which we haven't seen an example of up until now.  The advert states that Hawthorn produced 2, 3 and 4-berth caravans.

Don Ricardo