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Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 21, 2022 6:55:43 GMT 10
Really starting to look like a caravan again! That woodworking bandsaw machine sounds like a very interesting thing to have! If you live in Qld, I might want to take advantage of you ripping ability!!! That channeling you had made along the wall baseline - how have you sealed it? The last thing you want is for water to seep into it and start rotting the timber without your being aware of it.
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Post by Noyesy on Jan 21, 2022 16:42:02 GMT 10
Really starting to look like a caravan again! That woodworking bandsaw machine sounds like a very interesting thing to have! If you live in Qld, I might want to take advantage of you ripping ability!!! That channeling you had made along the wall baseline - how have you sealed it? The last thing you want is for water to seep into it and start rotting the timber without your being aware of it. I would be very happy to do ripping for any enthusiasts on here, but I am in Melbourne unfortunately! By extension, if there are then feel free to get in touch (SE suburbs). This is the bandsaw I got...an older model, but it's an Italian made 24" saw and runs on single phase power. The channeling, yes, this was a concern of mine too. I have tackled it in a few ways. Before putting it on I painted the bottom rails with rubberised paint. When I glued it in I put a heavy bead of sika pro in the bottom of the channel, then ran several beads of sika 221 along the insides of each vertical piece for bonding, and a heavy bead of sika pro right near the top. You can't really see it in these photos, but the aluminium has a 5 degree fold 10mm from the top...the idea was to put the rivets through that fold, which would pull it in to the existing cladding and squeeze sealant out the top. Worked very well. I will put another bead of sika along the join before I paint just for peace of mind, but I am confident it will be a water-tight and durable finish. Ideally the original cladding would go over the aluminium channel, but as I said it was in very poor shape and I would have had to cut it very accurately to get a nice finish. Fingers crossed the way I've done it should work well. Thanks for the comment, it's nice to hear from people on here :-)
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Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 21, 2022 21:08:47 GMT 10
Love the saw! Good to hear you considered the water possibility. It really sounds like you've to thought through the potential problems. Stick with it!
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Post by Noyesy on Jan 25, 2022 9:11:25 GMT 10
Quick post, have attached the body back to the chassis, which is a major milestone for me. I took a shot of one of the clamping setups I used...thought it might be useful for someone reading this. The challenge is to get a squeezing force on a vertical wall. In this instance I've clamped through the window, using pieces of timber to transfer the clamping force downward and outwards (this is one of the strips I glued in to receive the lining). I worked all weekend to get the body back on the chassis. Quite challenging lining up the walls horizontally - wasn't sure where they should be positioned or how much overhang there should be front and rear. I put the rear sheeting on to get an idea, then took about 500 measurements to check for wall alignment, plumbness, level etc. I hope I got it right!! I ran thick beads of sika around the various contact points of the chassis and dropped the body down, securing through the Aluminium channel and in to the steel of the chassis with galvanised fasteners. It was a very sweaty and frenetic couple of hours! Here's where I am at, made up some pine braces to hold everything square and couldn't resist popping in the back window frame.
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Post by Noyesy on Feb 2, 2022 12:47:02 GMT 10
So with the body back on, my attention turned to the roof. There were 3 major places where water had obviously gotten in and the roof structure was quite rotten, especially the hatch. I have umm'd and arrr'd for a while about what to do and I decided to do a little digging to see whether repairs were a possibility. What I learned, which I hadn't realised until now, is that the roof on my van is a sandwich constructed panel made of a polystyrene core with a ply skin either side, all bonded together. Because of that, it wasn't possible for me to get sections out cleanly, so I have decided to replace the entire ply/polystyrene skin. As I have mentioned before I am working on my own, so I first had to find a way to first remove the aluminium roof skin in a way that I could handle it and get it back on later. I cut some strips of timber wider than the skin, took out the gazillion nails and lifted the roof skin as below, roping it to the ceiling. I then rolled the van outside and removed the ply roof, eek! It's interesting how the roof panel was made at the factory. The layers are 3mm ply inside and out, with 10mm polystyrene bonded in the middle. There are thin strips along each side where there is ply in the centre, presumably to give the roof edges more strength where the rivets hold the roof to the U channel. There are also cross-braces of solid wood going from one side to the other. Interestingly these pieces of timber stop short of sitting on top of the walls, which is an odd detail...the ends had popped through the lower ply lining in places. I'm in the process of fabricating a new roof and will post some photos along the way...it's quite an interesting part of the project.
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Post by Roehm3108 on Feb 2, 2022 14:59:45 GMT 10
All of which confirms what I have maintained before - rather a new build than to fix an existing disaster!! It's understandable that so many people lose interest half-way through a caravan restoration. There are real pearls under the skin of some of these projects - NOT!!! Must say, you're coming up with some ingenious ways of problem-solving!!! Skyhooks from the roof!! Great ideas!!! When you said Sandwich constructed, I had visions of roof, styrene and ply all glued together, never to be separated again. But from your pics, such is not the case. Lucky you! Otherwise it would have been easier to chuck the roof away and build a new one. I'm sure you're inspiring a few other lurkers to your project. Well done! You have reminded me of a rebuild done by member Jamesandbel who undertook this project vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/9000/1961-harris-caravan-project-progressMight be worth a read for inspiration. James was a complete novice at the start of that project.
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Post by twocutekelpies on Feb 2, 2022 15:48:36 GMT 10
Fantastic progress there. The roof is so much fun! Not. My suggestion is to get your replacement ceiling ply up on top of your walls and supporting ribs and fasten your overhead cupboards through them for maximum strength. I used 3mm aluminium flatbar on either side of the ribs to prevent sag due to the limited room up there, I couldn't use timber that was too thick. Of course, you may have a better idea of how to go about it, it was all new for me too. Although I haven't posted much progress I have been doing little jobs over summer including rebuilding the hatch frame and sealing the joins with Crommelins.
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Post by Noyesy on Feb 2, 2022 16:46:17 GMT 10
Roehm3108 and @twocutekelpies so great to hear from you! My last post was a bit confusing on reflection...the "roof" comprises a laminated/sandwich structure which the aluminium skin sits on, and yes, the ply/poly layers were glued together at the factory. The sandwich part looks different to yours Shelly although I studied your photos closely to try to figure out how yours was going together! Mine looks like this What I'm planning on doing is building a timber frame (10mm x 50mm) with the side pieces and cross pieces glued together in to a skeleton. I will then glue 3mm ply on to one side of that frame, fill in the frame with 10mm polystyrene (glued), then glue on the top ply lamination (also 3mm to give an overall 17mm same as factory - allowing 1mm for glue). I'm thinking I will do this in one piece on the ground, then somehow lift it up and fix it in place. As you mentioned Shelley I will then put in the basic structure inside the van so that I can fasten cabinets etc down through the roof skin (interesting about the aluminium you used, I might do the same). Once that's all done the aluminium roof skin can go back on. We are gluttons for punishment aren't we I have been giving some thought to the ceiling finish and I'm also considering wall papering the inside ply face on the ground, so that the ceiling is essentially finished when it goes on the van...hope that makes sense...it's actually how my van was done originally - a layer of polyester (I think) fabric was bonded to the underside of the ceiling ply. BTW your hatch look fantastic Shelley, looks like it will be very, very water tight! Really great work. Thanks for that thread Roehm3108, I will have a read tonight...
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Post by twocutekelpies on Feb 2, 2022 17:47:20 GMT 10
Sounds like you've got it covered Matt and very in keeping with original. Can't wait to see it all come together. Loving the updates, keep up the great work
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Post by Noyesy on Feb 14, 2022 9:06:52 GMT 10
Since taking off the original roof I have been pondering how to make a new sandwich panel. The easiest method would be to make it on the floor of the workshop (it's a big panel) but after experimenting a bit I concluded that a flat panel would possibly not bend enough to assume the curved shape needed. It could be made in place potentially, but I couldn't see a way to properly clamp and support the layers as they were glued together. The way I have decided to do it is a lot of work but it should yield a very good result. I started out by making a full sized paper template of the roof, then transferred it on to a ply template. I then used that template to make some MDF "ribs" much like an aeroplane wing (my years building model aircraft came in to play throughout this process). The ribs look like the photo below...the holes running along them are for clamping later. I made three sets of ribs, which I then nailed to my workbench at the exact dimensions and positions of the final panel. I then cut strips and nailed them to the ribs - these make the structure rigid and will support the layers from underneath during the assembly process. Next I laid the first sheets of ply directly on to the form and started gluing on the cross-braces. The braces are all half-lapped where they join. Effectively I am creating a lattice of bracing as below. This is where I got to this weekend. Once all the braces are glued on I will be gluing panels of foil board in to the gaps, then the top layer of ply. I have no idea if this is the "best" solution, but after a lot of consideration and many hours of work I am confident it will work...the resulting panel should be quite rigid and should have taken at least some of the curve of the form...the idea is to drop it back on to the van in one piece (somehow!) and rivet it back to the top C channel just like the factory. I'll post some more images once I'm a little further down the track...it's quite an interesting part of the project...at least I think it is!
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Post by Roehm3108 on Feb 14, 2022 13:57:44 GMT 10
WOW!!!!!! So you're actually applying fibreglass mould principles to the construction of this roof! I've never seen or heard of it done before and am watching with interest! Oh how I'd love to be there when the cap gets fitted!! I presume that you've worked out the physics of this all - especially once you've taken the actual roof out of/off the "mould"!! Have you worked out how to brace the whole thing during the move from where it lies to the actual van top? At what point will you take the mould off? You've actually created a "laminated" curve. Do you think you have enough longitudinal ribbing to stop it all wanting to straighten itself out again when out of the mould? So glad you're bothering to give us the pictorial and such good editorial! Have you perhaps considered moving those outside ribs inboard by slightly more than the inside width of the walls, so that they brace the whole roof when you lift it onto the top of the van and only need to be removed when the roof is actually tacked into place? That's the only thought I can add to the conversation!! Good luck
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Post by Noyesy on Feb 14, 2022 14:53:14 GMT 10
WOW!!!!!! So you're actually applying fibreglass mould principles to the construction of this roof! I've never seen or heard of it done before and am watching with interest! Oh how I'd love to be there when the cap gets fitted!! I presume that you've worked out the physics of this all - especially once you've taken the actual roof out of/off the "mould"!! Have you worked out how to brace the whole thing during the move from where it lies to the actual van top? At what point will you take the mould off? You've actually created a "laminated" curve. Do you think you have enough longitudinal ribbing to stop it all wanting to straighten itself out again when out of the mould? So glad you're bothering to give us the pictorial and such good editorial! Have you perhaps considered moving those outside ribs inboard by slightly more than the inside width of the walls, so that they brace the whole roof when you lift it onto the top of the van and only need to be removed when the roof is actually tacked into place? That's the only thought I can add to the conversation!! Good luck Thanks for the feedback, and yes it is similar to fibreglass moulding, I hadn't thought about it that way. I really like you suggestion of making the ribs slightly inboard to support the panel while it's dropped in - I hadn't thought of that. I don't think that will work however, because I'm intending on building the skeleton of the internal cabinetry before putting it back on...that way it will be supported not just by the walls but also the cabinets. I chuckled to myself when you asked about the physics of moving it as I'm somewhat making it up as I go! I think my carport will come back in to play...my workbench is on wheels, so the plan at this stage is to push it out to the carport and lift the roof panel off the form by slinging ratchet straps over the carport beams and slowly lifting it from multiple points to maintain its shape. Then I can wheel the van underneath and lower it down. Sounds easy in theory! I'm anticipating that it will spring back a little bit but that's fine as I can fasten it down knowing that it has been in the desired shape prior to going on...I will also be fascinated to see how it all comes together!!
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Post by Noyesy on Mar 6, 2022 20:25:21 GMT 10
I said I would post an update once the roof was finished, so here it is! I have used 10mm foil board in the spaces between the frames. I want to have 12v down lights set in to the roof, so I spent waaaay too much time making some round "holders" out of the old floor (10mm ply). They have a recess routered in to them so that hopefully when the bulbs are installed they are flush with the ceiling. Here they are glued in to the foil board and the wires routed to a central spot where they will come out of the ceiling inside a cupboard. With the wiring run I started on the top layer of ply...each panel took all of my weights and most of my clamps, so it took several days to finish the job. Here's the set up: Finally finished and ready to lift off the form. My first look at the underside of the panel, looks good, which is a bit of a relief. The panel is quite light, but is rigid...it held the shape of the form even though I was lifting it from only 4 points. In the end I just used some quick clamps, two on each side, and ratchet straps to lift the panel...it was fairly easy lifting it a bit at a time until I got it up high enough. I wheeled the van in and put the roof on for the first time. It looks fantastic, I'm really thrilled with it...it's just sitting there for now, but I can tell that once the rivets are in it will be a really nice tight fit. Super happy, and although it took probably took 25 hours of work I think it is worthwhile to get exactly what I want. The eagle-eyed among you will notice that the opening for the hatch is considerably larger than standard and that is because I'm going to make an operable see-through skylight panel...more on that later (the original 4 seasons hatch was missing anyway so I had to do "something")
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Post by Roehm3108 on Mar 9, 2022 9:18:57 GMT 10
CONGRATULATIONS!!! Sooooo glad it all worked out for you! And it only took 25 hours!!! I'm impressed!!
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Post by Noyesy on Apr 3, 2022 21:47:48 GMT 10
Progress has been a little slow on Dorothy recently but I try to do something regularly, even if it's just something small. I have stained/varnished the new roof, which will look fantastic once I have put on another coat or two. I then riveted the roof panel to the top aluminium channel...I only have a handheld riveter and they are quite large/long rivets, so it was hard work getting them all in. Most recent I have been building an internal frame for the rear and readying the rear skin for paint. I wasn't sure about how to go about the frame, but I knew I wanted it to be strong since the main bed will exert some weight on it (it will cantilever out past the floor). I have done what you see below, creating a sort of skeleton that is both light and strong; all the joins are epoxied and have fibreglass matting on both sides. All the wood has a coat of epoxy to stop critters or water...overall I'm really happy with the result..it feels incredibly rigid and strong (note that in the shot below the bottom set of stringers is not yet glued in). Next steps are to finish the rear skin and re-attach it; I'm using this panel to determine my approach to painting the rest of the van. I'm looking at using Globalcote for the whole van, so if any of you have experience using it I would love to hear your thoughts and tips.
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Post by twocutekelpies on Apr 4, 2022 9:49:47 GMT 10
Next steps are to finish the rear skin and re-attach it; I'm using this panel to determine my approach to painting the rest of the van. I'm looking at using Globalcote for the whole van, so if any of you have experience using it I would love to hear your thoughts and tips. Great progress Matt, coming together very well. Regarding the Globalcote, as far as I'm aware, they don't recommend use on vertical surfaces hence sold as a roof product only. It's super runny so drips could be hard to control too. It would be worth contacting them for advice and see what they think.
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Post by Noyesy on Apr 4, 2022 11:08:11 GMT 10
Next steps are to finish the rear skin and re-attach it; I'm using this panel to determine my approach to painting the rest of the van. I'm looking at using Globalcote for the whole van, so if any of you have experience using it I would love to hear your thoughts and tips. Great progress Matt, coming together very well. Regarding the Globalcote, as far as I'm aware, they don't recommend use on vertical surfaces hence sold as a roof product only. It's super runny so drips could be hard to control too. It would be worth contacting them for advice and see what they think. Hi Shelley :-) Interesting, I was wondering if it would be suitable for the walls but perhaps not. I'll ask them...if not I'll use globalcote on the roof and something else for walls...any suggestions? I've looked on Facebook but there seems to be so many conflicting opinions it's hard to make sense of them. I have an automotive spray gun and large compressor so spraying is an option.
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Post by Mustang on Apr 4, 2022 17:36:05 GMT 10
Hi Nosy, I used Global cote on the roof of my Viscount, for the cost I think is a marvellous product, it doesn't seem to mind adhering to any surface, we had old tape which I didn't want to disturb , it stuck to every surface. See page 7 (Classic Caravans Forum) of the resto at the bottom of the page, linkWe also sprayed it on the front to disguise the hundreds of stone chips. The spray gun was a broad jet Ozito ($40.00)
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Post by Noyesy on Apr 5, 2022 19:13:52 GMT 10
Hi Nosy, I used Global cote on the roof of my Viscount, for the cost I think is a marvellous product, it doesn't seem to mind adhering to any surface, we had old tape which I didn't want to disturb , it stuck to every surface. See page 7 (Classic Caravans Forum) of the resto at the bottom of the page, linkWe also sprayed it on the front to disguise the hundreds of stone chips. The spray gun was a broad jet Ozito ($40.00) This is really useful, thanks so much...looks like I'll be using for roof and possibly the front as, like yours, mine is a total mess of stone chips. That ozito gun seems amazing value for money!
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Post by twocutekelpies on Apr 6, 2022 5:19:28 GMT 10
I used Septone stone shield paint on the front of mine for all the stone chips with a schutz gun (both from Supercheap on a sale day), leaves a thick textured finish. It doesn't hide them all but adds a bit of protection from further assault.
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Post by Noyesy on May 26, 2022 12:19:59 GMT 10
Hi folks, I have been working on the rear lining and bed/settee structure. First step was to get the lining in and pressed down in to the curve. Next I screwed and glued a horizontal piece of timber on the inside to start forming up the seat base. I have decided to build a U shaped dining area that converts in to a double bed, choosing the U shape because I'd like to get a few people around the table. The photo below shows the first part of the frame...it's designed to have most of the weight supported by the rear-most chassis member, but allow enough strength to have someone sitting in the cantilevered area beyond the back of the chassis. I am using 70x45 MGP10 pine and ripping it down the centre to get 35x45. Pine is pretty light, perhaps not as light as meranti, but nowhere near as expensive. I think it's a good choice. Here is the basic frame completed. And now with ply top going on, hinged to allow access to storage under. Not much of an update but I'm enjoying this part a lot. The seating is really solid and I'm happy with how it is coming out. I am going to paint the insides of the storage areas with an epoxy paint just to give them a nice finish and make them easy to clean. Next edition coming soon!!
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Post by Noyesy on Jun 21, 2022 10:00:21 GMT 10
In my last post I had started framing up the dining/bed area. That's now done apart from putting lining around the inside of the seats, which I will do later. To get much further I needed to finish off the lining of the walls and for that I needed to finalise where I wanted wiring to go. Took a little mucking about but it's pretty well sorted now. I have run a few extra redundant wires in case I want to add more 12v things later. Trailer/turning signals/repeaters will all join in the area where the 240v comes in and I have temporarily installed a 12v fuse panel. The 12v set up will be on the other side, so this will just run lights and a few usb charger outlets. With the wiring in and lining on I could start fabricating the various walls inside; this one for the edge of the kitchen. Wardrobe walls being fitted (left of shot) Starting to frame up the overhead cupboards in the kitchen area. I laminated 3 layers of 3mm ply over the formwork (in a long strip) when I was making the new roof, so I was able to glue/screw in that curved piece, which fitted nicely. The line of that strip matches the stripping I put in the roof panel when I made it so it is screwed in to solid (well, 10mm!) hardwood. Gluing on the wardrobe wall having made a recess for the fire extinguisher. Finished and fire extinguisher in...rather satisfying! Next steps are to really get stuck in to the overhead cabinets and the pelmets I want to put above the windows so that I can have recessed blinds. Really enjoying this part of the build!
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Post by Mustang on Jun 22, 2022 8:10:18 GMT 10
Amazing resto, especially at the start, when you didn't realise the extent you would have to go to.
May I suggest cupboard doors at the end of the seats (Image 1) of this section.
One of our vans has a top hinged lid like you have done, but its a pain having to move all the upholstery cushions each time to gain access, at least to the front of the storage where you might have the most used items. Mustang
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Post by Noyesy on Jun 23, 2022 8:02:30 GMT 10
Amazing resto, especially at the start, when you didn't realise the extent you would have to go to. May I suggest cupboard doors at the end of the seats (Image 1) of this section. One of our vans has a top hinged lid like you have done, but its a pain having to move all the upholstery cushions each time to gain access, at least to the front of the storage where you might have the most used items. Mustang That's a great suggestion, thanks so much! I'll do on both sides most likely.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 11, 2022 9:13:49 GMT 10
It has been a long while since I posted; been very busy with a new job, but I have made some progress. I got the seating area in the back completed and moved my attention to the overhead cabinets. I have had a few ideas burning in the grey matter that I wanted to implement - curved facias, shelf above and integrated recesses for blinds/curtains. This resulted in a very fiddly and technically challenging (for me) design as below. I decided to replace the rear bulkhead cabinet as I couldn’t see how to integrate my design ideas in to the existing cabinet. So, out came the old cabinet and I started fabricating a fascia, including recesses for speakers (I want them to finish flush so they’re “hidden”). In this shot you can see the recess that runs in a U shape underneath the cabinets - these will be used to install blinds later. This detail added many, many hours of fiddly work, but I’m really happy with the result. With the rear cabinets complete apart from painting, I have turned my attention to the kitchen, which is coming along well. As is always the case with these projects there has also been a lot of research and acquisition of parts, including electrical, 12v system and plumbing. I also spent the weekend just gone having a major reorganisation of my workshop so that the caravan is at the back and can be jacked up so I can work under the floor and above the roof. Here is how she stands.
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