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Post by Noyesy on Oct 4, 2021 17:41:22 GMT 10
I started this in the technical forum then it became a build blog...so I asked it to be moved - thanks don Ricardo. This is the story of Dorothy, named after my wonderful late Grandmother. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello all, first post so go easy on me... I have just purchased a 1970 14' Franklin Regent and it has some fairly major issues I need to sort out. The story goes that some people bought it as a covid project and stripped the interior. They then realised they weren't going to finish it so they sold it to another couple. When that couple drove it home as their covid project, the left side wall started collapsing at the bottom due to a lack of structural strength (no interior cabinetry, ply removed from inside). So I have a van with a bulging bottom side that is just about detached from the chassis and is split in a few places from the slumping...you can see it in the photos. I notice that the bottom rail has all but disappeared no doubt due to rot, so there was no support along the bottom of the wall. Soo...I got it home OK and in to the workshop, now trying to figure out a plan of attack...this is where you come in I have a few options as I see them: - Lift the walls and roof off the chassis in one piece, pull the chassis out, affect repairs to walls and chassis then reconnect - Go back to flat-pack as others have done on here, make repairs then reassemble I'm a bit nervous about the second one as it seems pretty extreme, but I know I'd get a much better outcome. Let me know what you think...in both cases the chassis will get some love. Thanks for all your generous posts on here, its a fantastic resource. Matt
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Post by sportsman 1 on Oct 4, 2021 18:32:44 GMT 10
Hi Matt, I see far too many of these "I was going to but" projects. It was possibly a reasonably good original thing before it got played with.
Assuming the chassis is straight and solid I would suggest before unbolting the floor from the chassis jack up the roof in the corners where the walls are attached (this might take several goes/jacks) with some support under the roof structure and hopefully the walls will straighten up ok. When it is at the original height then fit temporary bracing from floor to roof to hold the walls in the correct position. This will at least get the basic structure back where it should be.
Next I would remove the outer skin sheets and repair the frame and interior cabinetry properly. Once the frame and internals are finished then reattach the outer skin and hey presto one caravan!
At this stage you can look at removing the chassis if you feel this necessary.
If the chassis is badly rusted/bent then the above will not really work as the chassis needs to be right before the body is tackled, if this is the case do the jacking up and bracing part, then once the body is fully braced and strong remove it from the chassis, repair the chassis and once done reattach body and carry on with repair.
Either way big job ahead, take your time, do it right and enjoy the journey.
Leigh.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 4, 2021 20:08:51 GMT 10
Thanks Leigh! The chassis is actually pretty solid on this van, but I'd like to remove it, de-rust, paint and put electric brakes on it...my tow car is set up for it so I may as well do that.
Yes, the walls are a bit of a mess. When you say "remove the outer skin sheets" are you talking about removing the aluminium cladding? The inner cladding is already gone so that would reduce the wall to a partial frame with some styrofoam in between :-). I am thinking that the method you mention of jacking up the corners might actually work...there are two pairs of windows on each side; I was thinking I could put some timber right through from one side to the other (glass removed) and lift the ends of the timber, which should distribute the weight reasonably evenly. Then perhaps detach and remove the chassis, pairing them once all the repair work is done. I had thought about going to flatpack as the bottom rails need to be completely remade on both sides along with several vertical members - I have seen elsewhere people doing this flat on the ground, which looks ideal but a ton of work!! I suppose I would like to understand how much extra work it is in reality...
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, it's a big project, but I just finished restoring an old Range Rover so I kinda like big projects and doing things as well as possible.
Matt
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 5, 2021 20:46:25 GMT 10
So I've decided that I don't want to pull the whole caravan apart; it's just too much work and I don't have anyone to help on a regular basis, so I think I have hatched a plan. I have removed the side windows tonight and will put two pieces of timber horizontally through to either side, then use ratchet straps to pull up on the body. I will remove the front and rear panels and hopefully once the body is detached I should be able to push the chassis out. I will then roll in a workbench I have that's on castors and build a frame on top of it to support the walls and ceiling. That will mean it's well braced and I can move it around when needed and work on it until the two parts are ready to go back together. Fingers crossed, proof of concept tonight and it looks OK.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 11, 2021 12:47:16 GMT 10
Not sure if anyone is interested but I thought I would post an update and ask a couple of questions. I managed to separate the van top from the chassis using the method above and built a dolly inside so I can wheel the body around if I need to. I decided to work on the chassis first and have taken the floor off and knocked down all the rust on the frame. I've also given the whole frame a coat of rust converter...I'm actually surprised at the condition of the chassis, there's pitting, but nothing bad enough to warrant replacing pieces. So to my questions: - The van sits low and scrapes as I have quite a steep transition on my driveway. It has a drop axle, and I thought of putting a straight axle on it, which would raise the whole thing by 60mm or so and make it a better height for general handling. Has anyone done this? Will it negatively effect the handling to a noticeable level? - In a similar vein, I'm thinking of putting a drawbar through the centre and out through the "A" at the front to extend the drawbar by 300mm or so...it's too short and fouls the back of my car when reversing (it has a rear wheel carrier on it which is part of the problem. I know it's not "original" but the van came to me as an empty, semi-collapsed shell, so it was never going to be a factory renovation. Any issues with a longer drawbar? In theory from what I have read it should actually improve handling. Anyway, a few photos
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Post by sportsman 1 on Oct 12, 2021 6:32:59 GMT 10
Longer drawbar will improve towing. I think if you are going to go to that extent you will be better to fit a complete new A frame, this will also allow you to redesign it if you need to fit a second gas bottle, bike rack, toolbox, whatever instead of overloading the original smaller one.
I took out a drop axle and fitted a straight axle - did not work for me. ( I still have the axle if you are interested ) I put a drop axle back in. How much does it scrape? Some vans have small wheels fitted to the rear to allow the van to "bottom out" so to speak. The other option is possibly fit bigger tyres or go one size up in wheels.
Please keep posting, folks might not write in a lot but they enjoy watching and reading about what others are doing.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 12, 2021 11:29:50 GMT 10
Longer drawbar will improve towing. I think if you are going to go to that extent you will be better to fit a complete new A frame, this will also allow you to redesign it if you need to fit a second gas bottle, bike rack, toolbox, whatever instead of overloading the original smaller one. I took out a drop axle and fitted a straight axle - did not work for me. ( I still have the axle if you are interested ) I put a drop axle back in. How much does it scrape? Some vans have small wheels fitted to the rear to allow the van to "bottom out" so to speak. The other option is possibly fit bigger tyres or go one size up in wheels. Please keep posting, folks might not write in a lot but they enjoy watching and reading about what others are doing. Thanks for your response and it's good to know that people are keen to read progress and see photos. I have done a lot of reading on this forum and learned a great deal myself so I'm happy to contribute! What was it about the straight axle that "didn't work"? Was it fitment related or a towing issue? You have reminded me that the drop legs had wheels on them presumably to stop the chassis/body scraping and I have removed those legs as they were bent beyond repair on my van. I think I will add some wheels when I come to refit new drop-legs. The original drop legs seem like a daft design as they fold forwards, which in my mind makes them vulnerable to catching and getting bent as mine were. Mine didn't look like they had been operated since the 1980s! Increased wheel/tyre size is another excellent suggestion...will ponder that. I also think you're right about fabricating a new A frame - I think I'll go that way for the reasons you mentioned and also weight - another heavy piece of steel would be required for what I was thinking of. I'll try to find some C section galvanised steel in the right size, looks like 100x50 should be about right.
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leeron
Junior Member
1966 Viscount Duralvan 14' 6
Posts: 69
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Post by leeron on Oct 12, 2021 16:39:44 GMT 10
Hello Matt, Lovely project you have there. I changed my original overlay axle that I had in my van to a straight HD axle when I converted to electric brakes and have never looked back. Only thing I found was that my vans original canvas awning annexe walls are 50 to 60mm shorter now as the van sits a little higher.
My van would tap the cast iron dolly wheels on the back of the van pulling into service stations etc. before I changed the axle. Only other thing is to check hight clearance where you store it.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 12, 2021 19:45:47 GMT 10
Hello Matt, Lovely project you have there. I changed my original overlay axle that I had in my van to a straight HD axle when I converted to electric brakes and have never looked back. Only thing I found was that my vans original canvas awning annexe walls are 50 to 60mm shorter now as the van sits a little higher. My van would tap the cast iron dolly wheels on the back of the van pulling into service stations etc. before I changed the axle. Only other thing is to check hight clearance where you store it. Thanks Leeron, that's interesting to know about the clearance issue. I do have a bit of a potential height issue as the van has to get down the driveway under a carport and it's a little squeezy. I thought I might add a few more photos of progress to date
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 12, 2021 19:48:35 GMT 10
Max 3 photos per post, here's a few more. Dolly I made out of a mobile workbench There she rests until I can get the chassis cleaned up
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 14, 2021 21:35:57 GMT 10
Well I've done it now...drawbar removed, new steel arriving tomorrow...aiming to have new drawbar back on by end of weekend.
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Post by Roehm3108 on Oct 16, 2021 20:07:46 GMT 10
OP, if this is your first project of this type, well done! You're attempting something that lesser people have already and probably will in the future, stay away from. I've found that after five resto's and one new replica build that it's easier to build from new rather than cutting and pasting. Which probably explains why some have gone down the rebuild track you've alluded to while others have gone in your direction. I'm really impressed with what you're doing. A word of warning about drawbars - the bigger/longer you make the drawbar the more you'll be tempted to put onto it. I've seen toolboxes and gas bottles and all sorts of other things on them, which in the end changes the total ball weight of the rig.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 17, 2021 21:34:05 GMT 10
Evening all and thanks @roemh3108 - I know exactly what you're saying...some drawbars look like a dumping ground for bad ideas! I've made mine 1600mm (original 1250) so it's longer but not excessively so. My intention is not to load it up, gas bottle and maybe a lightweight tool box if I can make one that suits the van (no checker plate!) Here's the update. Getting the chassis level. I noticed that the right hand side has been bent upwards because of the props the previous owner had put in to stop the roof collapsing...it has literally wrenched the outrigger upwards. Anyway, I managed to bend it back with a little brute force and ignorance. Previous poster is right, if you build it from scratch I guess you don't have to deal with stuff like that (yes, this is my first project of this type so I don't speak from experience!) Set up a string line and got everything level and aligned, clamps at the back to hold the rails against the chassis. Chassis upside down and all welding done. I decided to hack the under bracing off the old drawbar and put it on the new one even though it doesn't really need it...more to retain the look than anything. New drawbar is 100x50 box section with 3mm wall, which will be plenty strong compared to the rusty C section that was there. I also added some angle brackets just ahead of the front rail as from what I've read this is where the maximum point load is. I found www.trailersauce.co.nz a very useful resource for planning welds and bracing for anyone interested. Just need to add the coupling plate etc but the majority is complete. Goal is to have painting complete by the end of next weekend...and maybe a new floor down, depends if life gets in the way
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 17, 2021 21:51:03 GMT 10
Few more photos, max 3 per post... Inspector paying a visit to check my work...he doesn't look that impressed. You can see the angles I put on the front rail to spread the load on the drawbar. There are no welds across the top of the chassis as this is apparently a no-no, creating a potential weak spot. Another shot of the finished product...it's far from perfect but I'm really happy with it. Attachments:
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Post by aussieute on Oct 18, 2021 7:54:36 GMT 10
I use postimaging to put photos up and there is no limit to how many and they come up full size just letting you know great job so far it's a big project good luck cheers Chris
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 18, 2021 7:58:32 GMT 10
Hi Matt, nice to see another Regent being saved. I'm rebuilding a '74 on the Classic Caravans forum ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/4821/1974-franklin-regent-rebuild-v4981Looking forward to following your progress. Cheers Shelley PS I think you can fit more photos using Flickr and they'll last longer, you'll notice older photos sometimes fall off on this forum
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 18, 2021 12:57:45 GMT 10
Hi Matt, nice to see another Regent being saved. I'm rebuilding a '74 on the Classic Caravans forum ditzygypsy.proboards.com/thread/4821/1974-franklin-regent-rebuild-v4981Looking forward to following your progress. Cheers Shelley PS I think you can fit more photos using Flickr and they'll last longer, you'll notice older photos sometimes fall off on this forum Thanks Shelley and to Chris, I will look in to which of those will work better for posting photos. Shelley I have already read all of your build thread and learned a lot...gave me lots of ideas to approach and the photos were very helpful, it's a fantastic project and you are doing an incredible job of it!
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 18, 2021 17:57:11 GMT 10
Shelley I have already read all of your build thread and learned a lot...gave me lots of ideas to approach and the photos were very helpful, it's a fantastic project and you are doing an incredible job of it! Thanks Matt, it really helped me having others post their builds so like you, happy to pay it forward I've just updated the one over on the caravaners forum with my bed build, still haven't put the roof on but the bed is in
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Post by Roehm3108 on Oct 18, 2021 19:38:25 GMT 10
Probably to my departed dad's chagrin, I never took an interest in metalwork, especially welding. I'm in awe of those who can weld!! So excuse the dumb question OP, but why the bracket you welded on the outside of where you welded the drawbar to the chassis frame? As a rider to that, why not inside the frame of the chassis so that it is hidden? Love what you're doing there!! (He says lolling in an ensuited caravan site at Possum Park outside Miles, enjoying the freedom of at least being able to travel anywhere he wants in the Sunshine state)
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 18, 2021 20:02:12 GMT 10
Just in addition to Roehm3108, those brackets might interfere with the front cladding going back onto the chassis flush with the front (this is the back of mine, but same sort of attachment I'd guess as yours).
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 18, 2021 20:22:38 GMT 10
View AttachmentJust in addition to Roehm3108, those brackets might interfere with the front cladding going back onto the chassis flush with the front (this is the back of mine, but same sort of attachment I'd guess as yours). Yes I will come clean about those brackets, after all was done I realised that there's that timber strip to go there (well picked up Shelley!), a case of not thinking far enough ahead!! If I had my wits about me I'd have put them on the inside but I was following a well trodden design which was endorsed by an engineer friend. It was one of those moments, I turned away from finishing up the welding patting myself on the back then saw the rotten remnants of one of the original wood strips and my heart sank a bit But I have a plan...I'm going to cut the tabs back a little then notch out the wooden strip with a router. The wooden strip will completely cover them once complete, but they will still function as intended. Not perfect for sure, but a reasonable solution. One of the things I love about this sort of project is working around issues as they come up. The purpose of the angled brackets and the way they are welded on is explained here for anyone interested.
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Post by Roehm3108 on Oct 19, 2021 20:33:52 GMT 10
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 20, 2021 5:42:13 GMT 10
Yep, have to be careful with drawbar load, I passed a car parked on the side of the Bruce Highway a few years ago with just a drawbar and toolbox, I could just make out the roof of his caravan down the hill where it decided to go offroad without him.
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Post by Noyesy on Oct 20, 2021 9:10:01 GMT 10
That was part of the reason I've put on a new drawbar, it's not just that the old one was a bit short, it was also pretty rusty and I was a little concerned about its safety. Last night I decided to tackle an elephant in the room. I'm not sure if it happened over time or whether it was to do with the roof being propped, but the cross members in the centre of the chassis have sagged significantly. I'd rather get it straight before painting or putting on a new floor so I have been scratching my head trying to come up with a solution (Shelley, I can see why your hubby decided to make a new one on your project!). I am very lucky to have an I beam running across my workshop, and I came up with the idea of using the props the previous owners bought (to hold up the roof) to straighten the cross members. I'm almost embarrassed to post photos because my workshop is such a shambles at the moment...I swear almost every tool I own is perched on a bench or on the floor! Anyway, the setup. I was able to get most of the bow out of the crossmembers, then inserted some steel box section I had on the shelf down in to the C section. I then went along and stitch welded the box section to give the cross members more rigidity and hold the (new) straight shape. Worked out pretty well and they'll hopefully stay straight. One more job ticked off the list on the way to getting some paint on. Shelley I read your bed building thread last night - looks great and you're doing a really professional level job!
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Post by twocutekelpies on Oct 20, 2021 13:39:25 GMT 10
The thing that annoyed hubby as well was the different heights in the chassis and the use of timber beams under the floor to prop it. He did have a crack at cleaning it up but there was just too much rust and it was so heavy! By the way Matt, I have shed envy, so much room in there! This is my work area, I have a very bad habit of cluttering up the middle there when I'm looking for something then have to clear it all away to work. My work bench is also my pile of poly coated caravan ply so I have to be careful I don't damage it.
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