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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 21, 2021 13:05:28 GMT 10
Hi all, I thought I’d throw up a puzzle to give us something to think about on a sunny Lockdown (for many of us) Saturday afternoon. On our way to the 2021 Vintage Caravan Nationals at Victor Harbor, I was intrigued to see some photos on Facebook of an undeniably good looking caravan arriving for the Nationals, but which left me scratching my head as to its identify. So when we got to Victor Harbor one of the things on my ‘must do’ list was to check the caravan out for myself, and here it is: Ok, the question about this caravan for you all is: What am I?I will be interested to hear what you think. You will probably be surprised by the answer. Don Ricardo
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Post by bobandjacqui on Aug 22, 2021 16:06:42 GMT 10
G'day Richard, Very nice van. Just a guess but looking at a couple of details that I can see is that it is a very well built homemade. If I'm right it is a credit to a very talented, creative builder. Cheers Bob.
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jorek
New Member
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Post by jorek on Aug 22, 2021 19:41:49 GMT 10
Hi Richard, My gut feeling is that it could be an enhanced Globe Trotter! A very cleverly restored masterpiece- a credit to the owner. cheers Derek.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 22, 2021 20:09:19 GMT 10
Well done Bobandjacqui and Jorek, Between you, you worked out the origins of the van shown in the photos higher up this thread. The caravan indeed is a Globe van that has been seriously re-modelled by Wayne E, who is part of the Vintage and Classic Caravan Group of SA. And here is the Globe nameplate inside the van which has been retained: I think Wayne mentioned that the van had been damaged before he took it on and re-fashioned it. The front windows are based on windows from a Roadmaster. He finished working on it only hours before heading off for the Nationals at Victor Harbor. The finish and detail on the van are extraordinary. As you both indicated the van is a credit to a creative and talented craftsman. The tow vehicle is an equally stunning 1957 Buick Roadmaster 2 Door Hardtop in matching colours.. Don Ricardo
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Post by Roehm3108 on Aug 26, 2021 20:17:22 GMT 10
What brilliant workmanship!! Without wanting to detract anything from this lovely van, does it beg the question, as to whether it is a restored or modified vintage caravan? Seems that caravans are going down the same track as vintage cars and hotrods - when is a vintage car a hotrod? Perhaps a certain hotrod builder could comment on this via some other means?
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Post by tooleyau on Aug 26, 2021 22:39:37 GMT 10
What brilliant workmanship!! Without wanting to detract anything from this lovely van, does it beg the question, as to whether it is a restored or modified vintage caravan? Seems that caravans are going down the same track as vintage cars and hotrods - when is a vintage car a hotrod? Perhaps a certain hotrod builder could comment on this via some other means? Let me start this comment with me saying that I am not commenting on any particular caravan, and these ramblings are just my opinion, and if I offend anybody then I apologise. The question from Roehm3107 was "when is a vintage car a hotrod?" If you google that question you get "Hot rods are typically old, classic, or modern (American) cars that have been rebuilt or modified with large engines modified for more speed and acceleration." A classic car, by definition in NSW, "must comply with the applicable vehicle standards as at the date of vehicle manufacture. However the vehicle must be as close to original condition as possible, with no alterations except for safety features such as seatbelts, turn indicators or period options, accessories and safety items." So, to apply this definition strictly to vintage or classic caravans then to be classified as vintage or classic the caravan must be as originally built, or restored with no alterations to the original design except for improvements in safety features. This I assume means brakes can be upgraded as well as lights and indicators, and I assume then also by applying these strict guidelines it would exclude solar upgrades, led lighting, water tanks with 12v pumps, as well as lots of things we all have in our caravans. Certainly no heaters/air-conditioning, microwaves, electric blankets, USB charging ports or TV. Just to confuse he issue there is also the term "Retro" which by definition means "imitative of a style or fashion from the recent past" Or "Retro items don't have to be old, they can be brand new, but would have to be made in the style of the time or item they are trying to replicate. So, perhaps the best way to think about the difference between retro and vintage is that vintage refers to the acutal construction, whilst retro refers to the appearance." So, where does this leave us with caravans. My two bobs worth is that I really don't care what type of caravan turns up at our events, it's all about the social gathering. In reality we are a social club with similar tastes in mobile accommodation, and I don't care if, at the next vintage caravan get together, whether the caravan next to me is a vintage or classic caravan that is: • original and unrestored; • original and restored to original design and specifications; • original and improved (which where our own Lady Evelyn fits with her hidden improvements) but looks original outside and inside: • original and improved with obvious changes outside and inside • original van that has been renovated/ upgraded with modern appliances and fittings; or • a retro van - a new van built with the look of an old van. It's all about the journey, the comradarie and the beer. Tooley.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 28, 2021 12:19:29 GMT 10
Hi Roehm and Tooleyau, The discussion about ‘hot rodding’ caravans comes up on the forum from time to time, and has revealed that people’s views on what counts as ‘rodding’ and what doesn’t differs considerably. I was interested to read the various points in Tooleyau’s post and think the definitions are quite useful. In the end - although I belong on the maintaining originality end of the spectrum - like Tooleyau, I don’t really mind what kind of original/restored/retro caravan I wake up next to. The only thing that really upsets me as a person with a historian’s sensibilities is when a really rare caravan - sometimes the only known example of a particular type - is drastically ‘rodded’ or turned into a coffee van. Such vans have historical value which needs to be recognised. But if the vans concerned are really common, pffft, each to their own. Having said that, I don’t think Wayne E’s caravan fits into any of the categories Tooleyau mentioned - original, restored, improved, retro or rodded. I suppose modified is closest, but I think it fits into a category that I’d call ‘reimagined’, where someone takes a basic design and imagines how the design might have been improved with some design changes. The only way I can explain what I mean is by referring to some ‘reimagined’ classic cars. Take the original Morris/Austin 850: During the Mini era, several people reimagined the basic design to produce the Mini Monaco… …and the Mini Broadspeed: Both of these Mini variants were put into limited production and could be viewed, by at least some, as a more attractive car. Similarly, Herbert Cordell - who also built caravans in the 50’s - reimagined the FJ Holden van as a station wagon: This vehicle was a one-off, although I think GMH itself played with the idea. Another example is the original MGB GT which involved adding a fastback roof to an MGB, which BMC eventually took on itself. I personally wouldn’t describe any of these vehicles as ‘hot rods’. Instead they are ‘reimagined’, and I see Wayne E’s Globe in the same way. His work has created a very attractive caravan into which he has incorporated almost entirely vintage era design cues. And if Wayne E, happens to see these posts, please do not take any of this discussion as a criticism of your creativity, design flare or workmanship. The discussion is just one that comes up from time to time without any negative intent. I think I can speak for everyone in saying that we are most admiring of the caravan you have created. Don Ricardo
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Post by tooleyau on Aug 28, 2021 14:20:26 GMT 10
The only thing that really upsets me as a person with a historian’s sensibilities is when a really rare caravan - sometimes the only known example of a particular type - is drastically ‘rodded’ or turned into a coffee van. Such vans have historical value which needs to be recognised. But if the vans concerned are really common, pffft, each to their own. Fully agree. However, when selling a car, or caravan, once it leaves your driveway it is no longer yours and the new owner is within thier rights to do anything they like with it and, unfortunately there is nothing we can do. And that's the sad part, once converted to a coffee van the van is lost, and it's history goes down the drain. Tooley.
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Post by Roehm3108 on Aug 28, 2021 15:52:09 GMT 10
You're correct DonR that this subject, in one form or another, does raise its head on a quite regular basis. Nevertheless, with the proliferation of similar forums and especially Facebook sites, I see no reason not to remind ourselves and newcomers to this forum of why this particular forum was created. To do so honours the memories and input of past and current members who took and still take the restoration of vintage caravans seriously.. I get annoyed when people mix their English and consider that "vintage", "classic" and "retro" are one and the same thing, and advertise their caravan as "vintage" in the hope of making extra dollars!
What is in place in the Forum Guidelines here, attests to the importance placed on the concept that this forum wants to set particular guidelines when it come to defining and restoring vintage caravans. That this is a Proboard means that it is full of brilliant, historic and useful information which will not get lost while the forum exists - unlike those Facebook sites. If only people would actually bother to use this forum for guidance instead of wanting to be spoon-fed with answers to the same questions all the time!
I agree that an important component of this site is the social aspect, but that should not be at the cost of the integrity of what this site is first and foremost about - Australian Vintage Caravans. The social gatherings is a spin-off from that.
Perhaps somewhere down the track, this site or somewhere else will see the need to have a section or separate forum for modified, replicated or modern copies of vintage caravans.
Meanwhile I am saddened at how regularly, true "vintage" and often rare caravans advertised here or elsewhere, are not snapped up by the "new" generation of people interested in the fascinating area of our history, and restored for posterity.
I would be remiss in this response if I were not to mention the ongoing contribution that you, Don Ricardo make to this forum, even in your short years on here! You have endeared yourself to everyone and made a huge contribution to the day-to-day running of this forum as well as unearth such gems of historical information from some of the most unusual resources. Thank you!
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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 28, 2021 20:16:37 GMT 10
Hi Tooleyau and Roehm, Tooleyau - yes, I agree. Once someone else is the owner they are entitled to do whatever they wish. Roehm - I don’t altogether blame the “coffee vanners”. Very few people know enough about vintage vans to know whether the van they’ve bought is a rarity or the last of its kind or not, and don’t really know where to find out the info. It’s not like vintage and classic cars where there is an established market as well as a knowledge base which in many cases will discourage someone from finding a rarity and turning it into a beach buggy or paddock bomb (hopefully)! I guess that’s one of the aims of this forum to build up the knowledge base, as I think you were suggesting. Hopefully over time an appreciation will grow for some of the older and more historic vans. At the moment I think the market, prices, etc, are driven by people wanting to recreate their childhood - to find a van like their parents or grandparents had. To be fair I suspect that’s what a lot of classic car owners are looking for too (not sure about Tooleyau with his Buicks ). However I have been encouraged by the fact that there are a couple of people on the Facebook vintage/classic caravan pages at the moment that look to be in their 40’s (youngsters in other words!!), who have bought and are doing up some quite old vans, meaning late 30’s and 40’s designs. Hope for the future? None of the above really relates to Wayne E’s van which stands, as you said, as a lovely example of brilliant workmanship, and as I said, reimagination. Don Ricardo
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