jwm
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Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 14, 2017 18:44:39 GMT 10
Hi guys and gals, the name is John Murray and I live on the Sth Coast of NSW at Callala Bay. About a week ago while out riding my push bike and I noticed an old van in the front yard of a house in the adjoining suburb, Callala Beach. I thought to myself, '"that's a nice looking old van sitting there going to waste, I wonder what's happening to it". I then continued on with my ride, thinking nothing more about it.
Long story short, I have been looking for a project for a while to keep me occupied and it just so happened I was riding down the same street again last Monday and saw the van again and I though 'bugg** it', so i jumped off the bike and knocked on the door and spoke with the owners of the van. As the story goes, they had purchased it off an elderly neighbor about 12 months ago and had started doing it up. The husband had since lost interest and it has been sitting idle for the last 9 months. When speaking to the wife, she was adamant that they were going to finish the project and the van was not For Sale Never the less, I left them my name and phone No., just in case they changed their minds down the track.
Well, it must have been a very short track because they rang me the next day and offered to sell me the van for what I considered an obscene amount of money. Apparently the wife had been on the internet overnight looking at Vintage Resto Caravans and decided that their van fell into that category,and accordingly, that price bracket. After telling them a few home truths about what needed to be done to their van and explaining to them what I was prepared to pay for the van, the conversation ended. Anyway, a few more phone calls between us, a lot more negotiation and finally an agreed selling price we could both live with.
So today I paid a deposit on a 12 foot Wayfarer Aluminium Caravan, which I am told is a 1963 model? Having read a couple of threads on this forum I am now of the belief that Wayfarer didn't actually build caravans but were involved in re-badging other manufacturers vans, is this a correct assumption? I am also a little confused by the fact that the van I have purchased is supposedly a 1963 Aluminium Wayfarer, yet, there is some suggestion from what I have read that Wayfarer didn't start selling aluminum vans until about 1967 or 1968, can somebody shed some light on this for me? Have I been given the wrong year of manufacture?
Thanks guys for any light you can shed on the subject. I'm picking the van up next Monday, so I'll try and get some photo's up after that.
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Post by Koala on Sept 14, 2017 19:24:32 GMT 10
Hi JWM, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your purchase!! There are a few Wayfarer owners on the forum and people better informed than me to answer your queries but I suggest that some photos would be a great help. Wayfarer did build vans themselves but at that time there was also a lot of badge engineering going on so we would need to see your van to identify which category your van falls into.
Koala
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Post by fo00se on Sept 16, 2017 21:50:49 GMT 10
I have a 63 wayfarer, 14'6, it is Plywood sides, aluminum front, roof and rear. See image beside post. Single beds on each side in the rear.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Sept 16, 2017 22:33:31 GMT 10
Hi JWM, Great to hear about your van, and how you acquired it. Just goes to show a bit of persistence and patience sometimes wins the day! As Koala said, Wayfarer both built their own vans and also put their brand name on caravans that they sourced from quite a range of other suppliers. Some of those other suppliers we know, others we haven't worked out yet. Wayfarer was also a quite an innovator in their time, and experimented with a variety of styles, designs and materials, some of which worked and some of which didn't! As a result there was a huge range of Wayfarer models, and every second or third van we see seems to be something different. I've actually collected a stack of photos of Wayfarers to post, but haven't done so yet because I am still trying to work out how they all hang together, and what order they should be in. You asked when Wayfarer started cladding their vans with aluminium. The answer to that is that it was in the late 50's. So some of their vans from that point on were clad in aluminium, and some in bondwood, and quite a few in a mixture of the two (aluminium front, back and roof, and bondwood sides). When we see your van, hopefully we'll be able to tell you whether it's a Wayfarer 'original' or a badge engineered one, and hopefully an approximate build date. There are instructions on how to post photos in a thread at the top of each section of the forum. It involves a few steps, but you should be able to work it out if you follow the instructions (I suggest you use Postimage for posting the photos). Yell out if you have any issues though, because I (and I think quite a few other forum members) will be really keen too see your van. In the meantime, you might be interested to have a look at the Wayfarer thread in the 'Down History Lane' section if you haven't already found it - click here. There are photos of a number of Wayfarer models there, but not all that we know about yet, as I said. Looking forward to seeing your van. Don Ricardo
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Post by Gidget on Sept 18, 2017 14:33:37 GMT 10
Hi JWM, welcome to the Wayfarer club! Looking forward to some pics of your van. I find postimages.org is very easy to use (choose the "Hotlink for Forums" for larger pics rather than thumbnails). Anyway, I have a 1960? 18ft all aluminium exterior Wayfarer, currently in the process of stripping and rebuilding. Cheers, Lisa
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 18, 2017 18:39:14 GMT 10
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 19:32:35 GMT 10
Hi JWM, A nice little van,looks to be in good nick! I'm afraid someone is having a lend of you! When that van was new it was between 700 and 800 pounds,not 3000.00! I have a price list somewhere for these.Interesting how it has two profiles of aluminium on both sides,they must have run out at some stage,which was quite common back then. Cheers hughdeani
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Post by kingswood308 on Sept 19, 2017 9:00:57 GMT 10
Is it a Wayfarer Hughdeany ? Did they go from the Knights head to a decal at some stage ??
Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 17:12:12 GMT 10
Hi Kingswood, It's a metal knights head on a Perspex backing. Don't remember them ever going to a decal,even the last Wayfarers had the metal ones. Cheers hughdeani
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Post by Koala on Sept 19, 2017 17:24:12 GMT 10
Do you think you could have a look for a number welded on the inside of the drawbar near the hitch? Mine is #840 likely built in 1964.
Koala
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Post by Don Ricardo on Sept 19, 2017 23:27:00 GMT 10
Hi JWM,
Fantastic to see your caravan. It looks great van. And well done on posting the photos too.
I've seen one other Wayfarer the same design as yours. It was on Facebook a while back.
The style of the front is similar to the Wayfarer Roadliner and Roadliner 63 models, but the rear of those have a straight back, whereas yours curves out under the rear window. Also the Roadliner and Roadliner 63 models had aluminum cladding on the front, roof and rear, and bondwood cladding on the sides, whereas (obviously) yours is fully clad in aluminum. My estimate (guess?) is that the Roadliner and Roadliner 63 models are from around 1962/63 - I am assuming (perhaps naively) that the '63' indicates 1963.
Because yours is the design and style it is, and is fully clad in aluminum, I think it would have come after the Roadliner/Roadliner 63 models. In addition the profile of the cladding on your van doesn't seem to have come into common use until about 1964 and later. So my guess is that your van is 1964+.
By 1966 or so, Wayfarer was styling vans with quite sharp edges (as opposed to curves), so again I think that suggests that your van might be around 1964 or 1965.
I am making quite a few assumptions in the above, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark. I will be interested to hear what Hughdeani thinks about what I've suggested.
If you are able to find a serial number on the A-frame, that will help us work out where it fits, as Koala has suggested.
Don Ricardo
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Post by Roehm3108 on Sept 20, 2017 6:21:24 GMT 10
If the van still has the original fridge, take off the outside vent panel and check the certification tag, it helps towards estimating the age of a van too.
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 20, 2017 20:32:03 GMT 10
Thanks for the input and information guys and gals. I re-arranged the garage today and managed to move the caravan around the back of the house where I started work on it. I have cut off the coupling, the gas bottle holder, jockey wheel bracket and a couple of other brackets that looked like they were for a weight distribution hitch. Whilst doing this I found the welded No. on the frame and that No. is '933'. I also checked the gas compliance/certification plate today and although some what difficult to read, I am satisfied that it is dated some time in 1966. I'm not sure when they started installing gas in vans of this era, so I'm not sure if it was an OEM installation or was added later in the vans life. The only gas appliance in the van seems to be the cook top, perhaps somebody can shed some light on this? Never the less, on the basis of that compliance plate and the information above I can probably safely assume that the van is a 1966 model and not a 1963 as I was told.
Sorry Roehm3108, the fridge in the van is a small 240volt fridge and while it looks old, I'm not sure that it is that old.
I was actually thinking that I might drive up to Shellharbour in October when you guys are up there camping to have a look at a few of the vans. It might give me some ideas. In the meantime I'll keeping working on cleaning up the chassis and installing the electric brakes, a new coupling and fix whatever else needs fixing.
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Post by Mustang on Sept 21, 2017 8:08:03 GMT 10
Its good work to start at the bottom, get the chassis & running gear in order first, check your tyre date, over 5 years of age are now considered a risk. LT tyres are only $90.00 ea.
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 21, 2017 20:24:08 GMT 10
Tyres will be replaced, after sitting around for 20+ years, I suspect that they are well past their use by date. Surprisingly, they still hold air and allowed me to tow the van homewithout any trouble.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Sept 21, 2017 22:53:43 GMT 10
Hi JWM,
Great to read that you've found the serial number of your van, as well as the date on the gas compliance plate. On the basis of the 1966 date, I'd say you've got the answer to your question about the caravan's build date (and I wasn't too horribly far off... ).
Your serial number is 93 later than Koala's, so that sounds about right in terms of the dates, particularly if Koala's van was built towards the end of 1964 and yours was built early-ish in 1966. As I indicated some of Wayfarer's vans from around 1966 had what I'll call 'sharp-edge' styling, but it's possible they were produced at the same time as yours, or just after yours, especially if Wayfarer was sourcing them from different manufacturers. All speculation of course at this stage...
You asked when they started installing gas in caravans, and the answer is certainly by the first half of the 50's, and the late 40's by some manufacturers. So it's almost 100% certain that the gas in your van was an original fitting.
Don Ricardo
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 22, 2017 9:41:04 GMT 10
Thanks Don Ricardo, great information. At this stage I have cleaned the rust off about half of the chassis and metal frame under the van and gal painted it, messy, dirty, dusty, labour intensive job. While I am under the van I thought I should seal the exposed wooden flooring, I thought I would use a bituminous type product, any different ideas or suggestions for which product I should use. I was also wondering if there are any businesses out there that specialise in products for vintage caravans? Similarly,I've notice that part of the molding around the edge of the roof line is missing and was wondering where I might source that piece of aluminium moulding?
Thanks guys and gals
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Post by shesgotthelook on Sept 22, 2017 10:49:51 GMT 10
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jwm
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Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 22, 2017 17:58:56 GMT 10
Mmm, cut the axle and springs out of the van today, no way in hell could I undo the shackle bolts or the U bolts holding the axle to the springs. Was wondering whether to recondition the leaf springs or whether to replace them. The thought then occurred to me that if I replace the springs, what weight rating springs do I buy? What is the weight of the van?
Any help with the weight of the van would be appreciated? A good guesstimated would help?
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Post by Koala on Sept 22, 2017 20:02:17 GMT 10
As long as no leaves are broken there is nothing to be gained by fitting new springs.
Koala
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jwm
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Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Sept 24, 2017 16:52:57 GMT 10
Actually, one of the eyes of the springs has almost pulled through, must have been a lot of stress there at some stage or the metal in the spring is really fatigued.
Found a very interesting little tag between the 2 front windows on Saturday morning, I had seen it before but just hadn't bothered looking at it properly, it says 'Wayfarer Caravans Pty Ltd, Patent 36937/63'. My guess is, given the information in the posts above, that it is a 1963 model van that continued production into at least 1966 and that the van was actually designed and produced by Wayfarer and not badge engineered.
I would still appreciate an educated guess on the weight of the van?
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Oct 9, 2017 17:01:38 GMT 10
Well that was a surprise. I knew I had a bit of rotten timer around the wheel wells and along the bottom edge of the van, so I thought I would pull the cladding off so that I could get to it and replace it. Pulled the external cladd9ing off expecting to find a wooden frame and what did I find? More internal aluminium cladding, is this normal?
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Dec 30, 2017 19:17:06 GMT 10
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jwm
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jwm on Dec 30, 2017 19:37:32 GMT 10
I guess it's pretty callous of me, I only finished it today, but it's on the market, For Sale. It was only ever a project, something to keep me occupied.
Lots of lessons learned in this project.
What's been done:
Frame and chassis cleaned and 2 coats of gal paint before a top coat of metal paint. Timber frame work replaced and repaired as required, all sub structure/ floor etc bitumen coated. New springs, hangers, bushes, solid axle, hubs, bearings, alko elec brakes, upgraded to 14 inch Holden wheels/hubcaps and trim rings, jockey wheel, 3 new light truck tyres, park brake assembly and tow hitch, support legs, 60 litre water tank and food grade hoses. Provision for connection to external water supply. New period appropriate exterior lights. New curtains and curtain tracks, new cushions /both coverings and high density foam. Interior repaired, renovated, painted, cleaned, new electric 2 burner cook top (original gas cook top available to purchaser but gas line was compromised and removed), 240v fridge freezer, 12v battery and charger, 240v lights replaced with period appropriate lights, original 12 v lights. Mattress included. I was told when I purchased the van that it didn't leak and in the 3 months that I've owned it, that appears to be the case.
Interested, phone John: 0409121482. Motivated seller, considering the amount of work and money that has gone into the van, I think my asking price is pretty conservative.
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jeffhead59
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Franklin Korong circa 1963 and Millard Starcraft 1978
Posts: 16
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Post by jeffhead59 on Oct 7, 2021 11:54:29 GMT 10
Hi John Do you still have your Wayfarer? I could not open your photos, but happy to supply my mobile if you could send them to me.... We have recently acquired a Bondwood, aluminium front/roof/rear Wayfarer and wouldlike to discuss a few things with you. Rob (Jeffhead59)
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