Post by Don Ricardo on Mar 10, 2017 14:14:52 GMT 10
MACK'S CARAVANS
Sold (and possibly built or fitted out) by Mack's Caravans
480 Lower Heidelberg Road, Heidelberg, Vic
On 10 September 2016 Raymar wrote here:
We have finally pulled the 1964 Mack Caravan out of it's shed, I have cleaned the inside, took me 2 days, but I am happy with how it looks. the outside cleaning and repairs hopefully will start this week. the Van is 14' long, 7'6" wide, 900KG Tare. We have purchased it from the original owner. You will notice that the name of the front of the van says 'Freeway', this is a badge off an Austin. there were no signs on the van. Doug, the owner, purchased the van from the factory in Heidelberg, and towed it with his 1946 Plymouth on many family holidays and also car rallies. He sold us the van due to health problems...
Following some discussion, Raymar posted on 22 September 2016 as follows:
...The Caravan is Registered as Make: Mack. There are no identifying badges or brands anywhere on the Van. Doug, the original owner of the Van said it was a "Mack" and that he purchased it from the factory in Heidelberg. He could have purchased a full silver aluminium van, but this one with wooden sides was cheaper. He had Austin Freeway, sitting in his garage and put these on the van. the van is 15 feet by 7'6". Tare 900kg. the chassis number is:
And on 24 September 2016, Don Ricardo wrote:
Hi Raymar,
Thanks for the additional information. Looks like you've got quite an interesting caravan puzzle on your hands, not to mention the beautiful caravan itself.
I've done a bit of digging around (thanks to www.newspapers.com ), and discovered that Mack's Caravans were located at 480 Lower Heidelberg Road in Heidelberg (that's a Melbourne suburb, for those outside Victoria). It appears that in the late 60's and early 70's Mack's was acting as an agent for various caravan manufacturers. So in June 1967 they were selling Coronet caravans (see the lines that I've highlighted with a box):
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 10 June 1967, page 25)
Then in December 1969 through to March 1970, they were working in conjunction with Reg Hunt Caravans Pty Ltd as the 'sole Australian distributors' for Wayfarer caravans (see the section headed 'Metropolitan dealers):
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 20 December 1969, page 21)
And by May 1970 they were working in conjunction with Anthony Motors Aust Pty Ltd to sell New Zealand built Crusader caravans...
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 2 May 1970, page 87)
...and advertising themselves as the 'northern distributors' of the Crusaders (meaning northern metropolitan distributors, I presume):
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 2 May 1970, page 87)
Interestingly, in 1969, Mack's (or Macks) Caravans was either co-located with, or also operating as D&I Caravan Maintenance at 480 Lower Heidelberg Road:
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 7 June 1969, page 48)
I note that the phone number for Macks and D&I is the same, so they may have been arms of the one business, or just working closely together. (The phone number had changed by May 1970.)
So that tells us a bit about Macks Caravans in the late 60's and early 70's, but what were they doing in 1964 when your caravan was built? There were a handful of caravan manufacturers building and/or operating in Heidelberg in the 60's, including Evernew, Country Club and John's Caravans, and I came up with the theory that Macks Caravans was an earlier business name for one of these other operators. However, that is not the case, because all of these firms were working from quite different street addresses in Heidelberg at the same time as Macks, and more importantly, none of their caravan models look like your Macks.
Given that in the late 60's and onwards, Macks was selling vans from various manufacturers, there is the possibility that back in 1964 they were also selling vans built by someone else. But if so, who?
Your caravan has a couple of features which mark it out as quite unusual. The first and most fundamental is that it has wrap around windows at both the front and the back which have been set into the caravan body in a particular way. While many manufacturers had adopted wrap around front windows by 1964, only a small handful had also adopted them at the rear, and moreover only one other Victorian manufacturer had adopted rear wrap around windows. After doing a reasonably detailed search (but I'm not claiming 100% certainty), the only manufacturers I can find who had both front and rear wrap around windows in 1964 were Viscount (NSW), Kings (South Australia) and Vacation (Victoria). However, the Mack is not identical or even closely similar in design to any of the caravans that we know about that were built by those companies, and none of those manufacturers set the rear windows into their vans in the same was as the Mack. The intriguing thing about the Mack is that the front and rear windows appear to be the same units, and the rear windows are set into the back wall in the same way as the front.
The second feature which mark out the Mack as unusual is the side flash which ends with an arrow shape towards the rear of the van. The only manufacturers in the 60's that used a similar shaped flash that I can think of are Kings and Clipper (both South Australian builders), but the Mack is very different to any Kings or Clippers, so I'm pretty certain we can discount those as the origin of your van.
Does this mean that Macks built their own caravans? Well the indications based on the evidence so far is that they did, at least for a while. And based on the serial number for your van, it looks as if they built at least 215. I can't quite make out the first character in the serial number. Is it a 'P' or an 'R'? What does it look like to you?...
Photo of rear of caravan and rear window referred to above:
Hughdeani posted on 25 September 2016:
Hi all,
Never heard of Mack before,but the van is very like a Hilandale,including cupboard doors and cabinetry,single wall bondwood construction etc.
Must admit when I first saw it that's what I thought it was!
Maybe back then (as now) builders bought cupboard doors etc from the one supplier and (as now) copied each other's best selling vans!
It's still a very desirable van with a great history.
Cheers
hughdeani
On 26 September 2016, Don Ricardo wrote:
Hi Hughdeani...
Your comments regarding Hilandale sent me scurrying back to the relevant thread where I discovered the following, which was posted by Franklin1 in 2007 here:
There's the arrow shaped flash again, like the one on Raymar's van, so that's certainly one thing that may confirm that their Mack was built by Hilandale. I note that the spats appear to be the same shape as well. (Another example of a part bondwood Hilandale with very similar spats is this one.)
Pursuing the trail further, I've checked all the photos of Hilandales I can find on the forum, as well as on the Our Touring Past website, but haven't been able to find any Hilandale vans with the same style of front and rear wrap around windows as on the Mack, nor with the front and rear windows set in in the same style as on the Mack. Most of the Hilandales have what I would describe as "straight backs", apparently without opening rear windows, ie the windows are a plain piece of rectangular glass held flat in the frame with rubber seals. The exceptions are a couple of 1967 models here, which also have rear wrap around windows, but the structure of the front and rear of the vans and the window frames are entirely different, and the wrap around sections of the windows are 90 degree angles, rather than rounded as on the Mack. Almost all of the Hilandales we have photos of are 1965 or later, so I am assuming that the reason we haven't seen Hilandales with windows like the Mack is that we just haven't seen any examples prior to 1965. (Is there any logic in that? We haven't seen any because we haven't seen any!!! But you know what I mean - I hope...
)
Do you know roughly when Hilandale started? ...
Later that day, Hughdeani replied:
Hi Don,
I think Hilandale started in the 50s,as I have seen an all bond wood 15 footer on fb some time back.The only photos I have are of the same models you have shown,but I think there is one on here somewhere that has the painted cupboard doors(not wood grain) and a HILANDALE branded sink,and not those glass sliding doors.
The wrap around Windows would be easy to build in during construction,so maybe it's another of those slightly altered vans with a different name on it,that seems to pop up now and again.
Cheers
hughdeani
Don Ricardo posted on 28 September 2016:
Hi Hughdeani,
That's interesting about Hilandale. I'm sure you're right about the wrap around windows being easy to incorporate when the van was being built, and who knows, Mack may have added some of their own touches to Hilandale shells or partly built vans.
Regarding the van on Facebook, I am wondering if you're not thinking of this Hill-n-dale van which was posted back in January by some mutual friends? (Hill-n-dale being a different outfit to Hilandale, of course.)
I'm interested in your comment about Hilandale starting up in the 50's. I haven't been able to find any reference to them before 1965 when they began advertising quite regularly in the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald, or more precisely had their caravans advertised by a number of distribution agents in Victoria and New South Wales. At that point, they were also advertising for distribution agents in country Victoria, which I would have thought was an indication that they were a reasonably new outfit at that stage - but maybe not, just expanding their existing business?
So many loose threads in the vintage caravan world, eh?
Don Ricardo
Sold (and possibly built or fitted out) by Mack's Caravans
480 Lower Heidelberg Road, Heidelberg, Vic
On 10 September 2016 Raymar wrote here:
We have finally pulled the 1964 Mack Caravan out of it's shed, I have cleaned the inside, took me 2 days, but I am happy with how it looks. the outside cleaning and repairs hopefully will start this week. the Van is 14' long, 7'6" wide, 900KG Tare. We have purchased it from the original owner. You will notice that the name of the front of the van says 'Freeway', this is a badge off an Austin. there were no signs on the van. Doug, the owner, purchased the van from the factory in Heidelberg, and towed it with his 1946 Plymouth on many family holidays and also car rallies. He sold us the van due to health problems...
Following some discussion, Raymar posted on 22 September 2016 as follows:
...The Caravan is Registered as Make: Mack. There are no identifying badges or brands anywhere on the Van. Doug, the original owner of the Van said it was a "Mack" and that he purchased it from the factory in Heidelberg. He could have purchased a full silver aluminium van, but this one with wooden sides was cheaper. He had Austin Freeway, sitting in his garage and put these on the van. the van is 15 feet by 7'6". Tare 900kg. the chassis number is:
And on 24 September 2016, Don Ricardo wrote:
Hi Raymar,
Thanks for the additional information. Looks like you've got quite an interesting caravan puzzle on your hands, not to mention the beautiful caravan itself.
I've done a bit of digging around (thanks to www.newspapers.com ), and discovered that Mack's Caravans were located at 480 Lower Heidelberg Road in Heidelberg (that's a Melbourne suburb, for those outside Victoria). It appears that in the late 60's and early 70's Mack's was acting as an agent for various caravan manufacturers. So in June 1967 they were selling Coronet caravans (see the lines that I've highlighted with a box):
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 10 June 1967, page 25)
Then in December 1969 through to March 1970, they were working in conjunction with Reg Hunt Caravans Pty Ltd as the 'sole Australian distributors' for Wayfarer caravans (see the section headed 'Metropolitan dealers):
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 20 December 1969, page 21)
And by May 1970 they were working in conjunction with Anthony Motors Aust Pty Ltd to sell New Zealand built Crusader caravans...
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 2 May 1970, page 87)
...and advertising themselves as the 'northern distributors' of the Crusaders (meaning northern metropolitan distributors, I presume):
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 2 May 1970, page 87)
Interestingly, in 1969, Mack's (or Macks) Caravans was either co-located with, or also operating as D&I Caravan Maintenance at 480 Lower Heidelberg Road:
(Source: The Age, Saturday, 7 June 1969, page 48)
I note that the phone number for Macks and D&I is the same, so they may have been arms of the one business, or just working closely together. (The phone number had changed by May 1970.)
So that tells us a bit about Macks Caravans in the late 60's and early 70's, but what were they doing in 1964 when your caravan was built? There were a handful of caravan manufacturers building and/or operating in Heidelberg in the 60's, including Evernew, Country Club and John's Caravans, and I came up with the theory that Macks Caravans was an earlier business name for one of these other operators. However, that is not the case, because all of these firms were working from quite different street addresses in Heidelberg at the same time as Macks, and more importantly, none of their caravan models look like your Macks.
Given that in the late 60's and onwards, Macks was selling vans from various manufacturers, there is the possibility that back in 1964 they were also selling vans built by someone else. But if so, who?
Your caravan has a couple of features which mark it out as quite unusual. The first and most fundamental is that it has wrap around windows at both the front and the back which have been set into the caravan body in a particular way. While many manufacturers had adopted wrap around front windows by 1964, only a small handful had also adopted them at the rear, and moreover only one other Victorian manufacturer had adopted rear wrap around windows. After doing a reasonably detailed search (but I'm not claiming 100% certainty), the only manufacturers I can find who had both front and rear wrap around windows in 1964 were Viscount (NSW), Kings (South Australia) and Vacation (Victoria). However, the Mack is not identical or even closely similar in design to any of the caravans that we know about that were built by those companies, and none of those manufacturers set the rear windows into their vans in the same was as the Mack. The intriguing thing about the Mack is that the front and rear windows appear to be the same units, and the rear windows are set into the back wall in the same way as the front.
The second feature which mark out the Mack as unusual is the side flash which ends with an arrow shape towards the rear of the van. The only manufacturers in the 60's that used a similar shaped flash that I can think of are Kings and Clipper (both South Australian builders), but the Mack is very different to any Kings or Clippers, so I'm pretty certain we can discount those as the origin of your van.
Does this mean that Macks built their own caravans? Well the indications based on the evidence so far is that they did, at least for a while. And based on the serial number for your van, it looks as if they built at least 215. I can't quite make out the first character in the serial number. Is it a 'P' or an 'R'? What does it look like to you?...
Photo of rear of caravan and rear window referred to above:
Hughdeani posted on 25 September 2016:
Hi all,
Never heard of Mack before,but the van is very like a Hilandale,including cupboard doors and cabinetry,single wall bondwood construction etc.
Must admit when I first saw it that's what I thought it was!
Maybe back then (as now) builders bought cupboard doors etc from the one supplier and (as now) copied each other's best selling vans!
It's still a very desirable van with a great history.
Cheers
hughdeani
On 26 September 2016, Don Ricardo wrote:
Hi Hughdeani...
Your comments regarding Hilandale sent me scurrying back to the relevant thread where I discovered the following, which was posted by Franklin1 in 2007 here:
There's the arrow shaped flash again, like the one on Raymar's van, so that's certainly one thing that may confirm that their Mack was built by Hilandale. I note that the spats appear to be the same shape as well. (Another example of a part bondwood Hilandale with very similar spats is this one.)
Pursuing the trail further, I've checked all the photos of Hilandales I can find on the forum, as well as on the Our Touring Past website, but haven't been able to find any Hilandale vans with the same style of front and rear wrap around windows as on the Mack, nor with the front and rear windows set in in the same style as on the Mack. Most of the Hilandales have what I would describe as "straight backs", apparently without opening rear windows, ie the windows are a plain piece of rectangular glass held flat in the frame with rubber seals. The exceptions are a couple of 1967 models here, which also have rear wrap around windows, but the structure of the front and rear of the vans and the window frames are entirely different, and the wrap around sections of the windows are 90 degree angles, rather than rounded as on the Mack. Almost all of the Hilandales we have photos of are 1965 or later, so I am assuming that the reason we haven't seen Hilandales with windows like the Mack is that we just haven't seen any examples prior to 1965. (Is there any logic in that? We haven't seen any because we haven't seen any!!! But you know what I mean - I hope...
)Do you know roughly when Hilandale started? ...
Later that day, Hughdeani replied:
Hi Don,
I think Hilandale started in the 50s,as I have seen an all bond wood 15 footer on fb some time back.The only photos I have are of the same models you have shown,but I think there is one on here somewhere that has the painted cupboard doors(not wood grain) and a HILANDALE branded sink,and not those glass sliding doors.
The wrap around Windows would be easy to build in during construction,so maybe it's another of those slightly altered vans with a different name on it,that seems to pop up now and again.
Cheers
hughdeani
Don Ricardo posted on 28 September 2016:
Hi Hughdeani,
That's interesting about Hilandale. I'm sure you're right about the wrap around windows being easy to incorporate when the van was being built, and who knows, Mack may have added some of their own touches to Hilandale shells or partly built vans.
Regarding the van on Facebook, I am wondering if you're not thinking of this Hill-n-dale van which was posted back in January by some mutual friends? (Hill-n-dale being a different outfit to Hilandale, of course.)
I'm interested in your comment about Hilandale starting up in the 50's. I haven't been able to find any reference to them before 1965 when they began advertising quite regularly in the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald, or more precisely had their caravans advertised by a number of distribution agents in Victoria and New South Wales. At that point, they were also advertising for distribution agents in country Victoria, which I would have thought was an indication that they were a reasonably new outfit at that stage - but maybe not, just expanding their existing business?
So many loose threads in the vintage caravan world, eh?
Don Ricardo
