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Post by kombikids on Sept 21, 2015 16:38:25 GMT 10
G’day Guys
I’m a brand new forum member from Canberra looking to buy a vintage caravan – preferably a 1950s Sunliner. My tow vehicle is a 1959 Holden FC Special Station Sedan with a HR disc brake front end with a brake booster, HR drum brake rear end and 186 red motor.
Unfortunately, I do not have the health, time, money, garage space or talent to do my own ground-up re-build on a vintage caravan. So I need a completely restored and registered caravan that is big enough to sleep a family of five (minimum four). I would greatly appreciate any help I could get from forum members.
I’m not looking for a show quality caravan but I do want it to be well-built and well-engineered and most of all, safe. I’ve been told by other vintage caravanners that I may need a fibreglass van as they are the most suitable (lightest) to tow behind an FC Holden. I’d prefer a double bed and a bunk bed without having to convert the dinette each night. I’d prefer an original interior (ie dinette and cabinetry) and retro external paint scheme (ie two-tone) but would consider modern interior and exterior if it’s been done tastefully. Bec really just wants big fridge and a gas stove that works.
Does anyone know anyone that has, and may consider selling their 1950s Sunliner Caravan?
Even if the owners aren’t willing to sell, I would still greatly appreciate any leads or advice on what models to look for/avoid. It would also be great to get advice on what’s the longest van and heaviest van I can get away with. I've read on the FE-FC Holden Forum that I can probably go up to 150% of 1150kg (FC Wagon Tare Weight). I’m located in Canberra but I’m willing to travel anywhere for the right van. If I can't find an Sunliner, I may consider an Olympic. If I can’t find a fibreglass caravan, I may consider a bond wood or Pre-70s aluminium. My budget is $10k-$20k. I’m not in a rush but I do need to find something before the FE-FC Holden Nationals in Toowoomba Easter 2016 (I’ve already booked my powered-site)!
My wife Bec and I love camping and have just finished six years travelling around Australia (2.5 laps) with three boys under seven. We left Canberra in 2009 when our first son was just six weeks old. We’ve had a couple of VW Kombi Campervans and a couple of Winnebagos. We sold our motorhome last week, which we used to tow our FC wagon around Australia. When we were younger we drove a Kombi from Alaska to Turkey over two years in the late 1990s. However, most of our camping has been in tents with our FC ute and FC wagon (we also have an FC sedan). Now that our kids have started school, we will be confined to camping on long weekends, school holidays and classic car events. Over the last 18 years, Bec and I have been lucky enough to meet many of your forum members at various FE-FC Holden Nationals, more recently at Mt Gambier Easter 2008 and Perth Easter 2012. We were also at the Museum of the Long Weekend event in Canberra 2013. I was also lucky to meet Jeff with his Jennison Pathfinder at the ACT Holden Day last weekend.
Cheers, Tim Miller
0437 465 336 or tim@kombikids.com.au
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Post by sutcac on Sept 21, 2015 19:47:47 GMT 10
Hi Tim. You have been given some serious(and dangerous) misinformation regarding the safe towable weight for your FC Holden. "......I've read on the FE-FC Holden Forum that I can probably go up to 150% of 1150kg (FC Wagon Tare Weight). Read more: vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/14862/wanted-1950s-sunliner-caravan-similar#ixzz3mMgX9dcv....that's 1725kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having towed several vintage vans around for some 20 000km or so over the past 15 years with holden red engine powered vehicles, I would put a safe towing weight at about 1000kg(efficiently braked)max. Though heavier rigs have been successfully towed around Oz with similar vehicles ( See the adventures of Kingy and Daggsey on here) I felt my EH Premier sedan(186 cu in manual) was 'on the limit' towing our laden 13' Sunliner @ about 850 kg.....but I do like to tow at 90/95 kph on good open highway roads. I think the Sunliner/Olympic fibreglass vans are excellent choices for your needs. Though you are going to have difficulty fitting everything you want into a 13' Sunny! ie Permanent bedding/bunks for your whole family as well as a large fridge! My choice(for what its worth) would be a 14'/16' Olympic. There are some good ones around within your budget. Once you find a suitable van maybe it would be prudent to 'test tow' with your FC before you hand over your hard earnt $$$, if possible? Others on here may have different ideas/suggestions, but rest assured they will be given with the best intentions. Hope this helps, . |
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Post by kombikids on Sept 21, 2015 20:02:58 GMT 10
That helps heaps, thanks Sutcac!
It may very well have been my own misinterpretation of the RTA Rules posted on the Forum. I thought I read that in the ACT I could tow up to 1.5 times my vehicles Tare weight (1,725 kg). I will take your recommendation that the safest towable weight for a fully-laden vintage caravan behind my FC Holden would be 1000 kg max. I generally always sat on 85km/h whether I was in my FC, Kombi or motorhome towing a 4WD.
Is it socially acceptable to put electric brakes on vintage caravans?
Also, I know caravans can all be different weights, but it sounds like the longest that you think I could get away with towing would be 16 foot. From what I've read on the Forum, it appears 99% of Sunliners were 13 foot with just a handful at 15 foot?
Which were generally lighter for their length, bondwood caravans or fibreglass?
Cheers, Tim
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Post by patrick on Sept 21, 2015 21:04:12 GMT 10
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Post by patrick on Sept 21, 2015 21:05:02 GMT 10
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Post by sutcac on Sept 21, 2015 22:07:24 GMT 10
Hi Tim. The safe towable weight that I recommended is only my OPINION....others may have differing ideas.
I am also unaware of the varying legal requirements in each of the States and Territories.
To me, it is socially acceptable to fit efficient brakes when the safety of ones family is at stake.
Several vintage vanners here have fitted electic brakes and have given positive feedback and seem more than happy with the results.
Yes the longest I would tow would be 15/16', but would prefer 13/14'. I think you're going to have trouble finding a 13' van with enough space to accommodate the fixed sleeping spaces and large fridge that you desire..Hence may have to go to 15'/16' to get this layout.
Yes , you're correct. Only about 6 or 8 15'/16' Sunliners in use that I know of and they are very tightly held by those who have them!!
Generally speaking fibreglass vans will be lighter than a double skinned bondwood van of similar length.
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 22, 2015 9:07:04 GMT 10
A friend of ours has a portable chest fridge that goes in his car when the family is camping, and it's pretty roomy without drawing much power.
We will probably be looking into something like that ourselves once the budget recovers from the shock of buying the van — in such a small all purpose living area a large fixed fridge would kind of dominate the space.
If it didn't throw out the weight and balance of a van, and a chest fringe in your vehicle wasn't suitable, would putting one under a seat be an option?
I'm still trying to figure out the towing weight thing myself, but… my understand is that "legal" and "possible" don't necessarily mean "safe".
Like, my Quest is around 610kg tare. My little Hyundai i30 hatchback has a curb weight of 1200kg and can legally tow its own weight braked (or 600kg unbreaked)… so I guess I could tow the Quest behind the hatch… and it would even be legal if I had brakes fitted (!)… but that doesn't mean it would be a good idea.
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Post by kombikids on Sept 22, 2015 14:30:22 GMT 10
Thanks Patrick - I have contacted the seller of the Olympic Riviera in Eumundi and hope to get some more photos soon. Boblor has also put me onto another Olympic that might suit. Thanks Sutcac - I'm hoping to find a fibreglass van with electric brakes or install them if the one we buy doesn't have them. Hopefully I can get away with a 15/16 footer (after a test-tow), otherwise we can make a 13/14 suit. I'm sure thousands of families before us have! Thanks also justanotheramy - I'll definitely explore all the options besides a full-size fridge. We do have a 12v Waco would could store elsewhere. Shame those three kids are going to take up so much room  I'm also going to try and find out what size/weight vans most of my fellow FC Holden owners tow. Cheers, Tim |
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Post by terryknight on Sept 22, 2015 21:05:48 GMT 10
Hi Tim
Vicki and I towed our 16' Olympic Riviera "Bella" approximately 6,000 ks last year (to the Broken Hills Nationals and beyond) behind our HT Holden Kingswood wagon with a 186 red motor and aussie 4 speed. It did it but it wasn't happy and it was very thirsty!
After leaving home (Tweed Heads) Neville the Kingswood got gradually lower and lower culminating in a complete suspension rebuild in Melbourne. Best $2,500.00 we ever spent custom built to suit heavy duty weight distribution system ( A MUST!!!!!)
We will be heading off in the New Year But Neville the Kingswood is now fitted with a 202 motor 20,000 over pistons custom built head with bigger valves and more compression, a towing cam, extractors and custom exhaust.
No idea what the fuel economy will be like but we can now sail past the "modern rigs" with a "B----- caravans" heh heh
Also in the process of fitting electric brakes to Bella ( wish we had them when Neville's brakes failed going down The Gibralter Range into Grafton).
So glad we had brown upholstery!
Love your tow vehicle, happy travels
Terry Knight
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Post by kombikids on Sept 26, 2015 15:15:02 GMT 10
Thanks Terry
I greatly appreciate your advice about suspension and brakes. We very much look forward to meeting many of you at future gatherings. Do you anyone with an FC Holden tow vehicle?
Cheers Tim
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Post by kombikids on Sept 28, 2015 21:07:22 GMT 10
Hi Guys. Just a quick update to let you know that we looked at two Olympic vans this weekend, one 14' in Yass and one 16' in Tahmoor (both in NSW). The smaller one needed a fair bit of work and just sold on ebay for under $3k. The larger looks perfect for our family but just had a few window/shutter issues: They were hard to open and shut and there was some water damage (expanding/separating/flaking) in the wood inside/below the windows. Would this be very hard and expensive to fix? Cheers, Tim
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69ISH
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by 69ISH on Sept 28, 2015 21:16:49 GMT 10
Hi Guys. Just a quick update to let you know that we looked at two Olympic vans this weekend, one 14' in Yass and one 16' in Tahmoor (both in NSW). The smaller one needed a fair bit of work and just sold on ebay for under $3k. The larger looks perfect for our family but just had a few window/shutter issues: They were hard to open and shut and there was some water damage (expanding/separating/flaking) in the wood inside/below the windows. Would this be very hard and expensive to fix? Cheers, Tim I bought the one in Yass, what work does it need doing??? as I have bought it sight unseen, I know it needs a new roof hatch, 2 windows are cracked and needs interior tidy up and new bed fitted but looks like an easy project to me. |
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Post by terryknight on Sept 28, 2015 21:38:04 GMT 10
If you want to know anything about Olympics send a PM to boblor a well known member of this forum.
They call Bob "The Guru" and he is always ready with advice on Olympics and usually knows who has what for sale and is happy to put buyers in touch with sellers. Our van wasn't advertised for sale anywhere. The owners had just let Bob know that they wanted to sell it!
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Post by sutcac on Sept 28, 2015 22:25:54 GMT 10
Hi Tim . For what it's worth, don't be in too much of a hurry to buy the Olympic 'of your dreams'.
There are really good ones out there that will require little to no work( which I understand is what you want), and with help from Bob Taylor, you are bound to
find one well within your time frame and budget. Slowly ....slowly... catches da monkey.
I reckon a good Olympic will find you, sooner or later!!
All the best with it !!
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Post by kombikids on Sept 29, 2015 9:43:41 GMT 10
I bought the one in Yass, what work does it need doing??? as I have bought it sight unseen, I know it needs a new roof hatch, 2 windows are cracked and needs interior tidy up and new bed fitted but looks like an easy project to me. Congratulations 69ISH If you know what you're doing, which no doubt you do, the one in Yass is a bargain. The seller, George (a really nice guy), is a retired motor mechanic and has done everything underneath. He said it needs a new tow hitch which would be less than $100, but you can drive it away as is. I think it's been off the road for at least a decade and had had very little use. You are right that the only things missing are a roof hatch and bed. Otherwise the interior is all there, just needs a tidy up, few hinges and knobs and maybe new seat cushions. The gas is not connected and not certified. The external fibreglass did have a few patches where the paint was flaking off or where it had cracked and split but generally it was good. Underneath the fridge vent needs sanding back. And as you said, two new windows. I know all this seems minor but for us it was a little too much. (I'm trying to take sutcac's advice and be patient). The main reason we passed on it was that for our family of five, 14' seemed a little too small. (However, I still reserve the right to contradict myself if we end up buying a 13' foot Sunliner). If you want any more info, I'm on 0437 465 336 or tim@kombikids.com.au. All the best with the resto, you'll probably have it done before we find our restored one! Cheers, Tim |
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Post by kombikids on Sept 29, 2015 9:56:42 GMT 10
Thanks sutcac
It was a big day for the boys on Sunday (over six hours in the car with a 6, 4 & nearly 2 year old), but now we have actually seen a 14' and 16' Olympic in person. This has helped with our search and encourage us to wait for a restored one (or at least one that we can use straight away and tidy up later). I agree with your advice that a 15'-16' would be the way to go.
Thanks Terry, before I joined the Forum, I'd been told to find 'The Guru' and in the end, bob found me first. He's already given me some great advice (as you all have) and put me onto the Olympic Contessa in Tahmoor.
I'm also keen to visit a few local Sunliner owners to check their vans out in person. It's been a couple of years since I've seen inside one and back then, we only two kids. I just love the shape of Sunliners and think they look great behind 1950s/60s cars. A 15' Sunliner would be perfect! Now *that* is going to be an excerise in patience...
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69ISH
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by 69ISH on Sept 29, 2015 16:55:33 GMT 10
I bought the one in Yass, what work does it need doing??? as I have bought it sight unseen, I know it needs a new roof hatch, 2 windows are cracked and needs interior tidy up and new bed fitted but looks like an easy project to me. Congratulations 69ISH If you know what you're doing, which no doubt you do, the one in Yass is a bargain. The seller, George (a really nice guy), is a retired motor mechanic and has done everything underneath. He said it needs a new tow hitch which would be less than $100, but you can drive it away as is. I think it's been off the road for at least a decade and had had very little use. You are right that the only things missing are a roof hatch and bed. Otherwise the interior is all there, just needs a tidy up, few hinges and knobs and maybe new seat cushions. The gas is not connected and not certified. The external fibreglass did have a few patches where the paint was flaking off or where it had cracked and split but generally it was good. Underneath the fridge vent needs sanding back. And as you said, two new windows. I know all this seems minor but for us it was a little too much. (I'm trying to take sutcac's advice and be patient). The main reason we passed on it was that for our family of five, 14' seemed a little too small. (However, I still reserve the right to contradict myself if we end up buying a 13' foot Sunliner). If you want any more info, I'm on 0437 465 336 or tim@kombikids.com.au. All the best with the resto, you'll probably have it done before we find our restored one! Cheers, Tim Thanks Tim, I will give you a quick call tonight or tomorrow. Cheers Rodney |
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Post by patrick on Oct 7, 2015 8:44:32 GMT 10
Hi Tim,
I just spotted a 63 road cruiser in the latest time to roam. Looks very tidy but is $12,000. Looks well worth it if that's within budget.
Cheers,
Patrick
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Post by kombikids on Oct 7, 2015 11:10:37 GMT 10
Thanks Patrick
I'll check it out. My budget is $15k for a restored van that's 'ready to go'. I flew up to Brisbane to look at three vans last weekend. One was that '7 berth' Olympic with 2 x bunk beds in Eumundi. I also checked out Greg's beautiful Olympic Debonair that he's restoring (which might only be a few months off being completed). I had a great chat with boblor who incredibly generous with his time and advice. Finally I took a look at a partially restored Sunliner. I really do like the idea of a 15 footer.
Cheers Tim
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Post by kombikids on Oct 7, 2015 19:13:20 GMT 10
G'day Guys
Since joining have naively been on the hunt for a 15' Sunliner to suit my growing family. I've had a look at all of the 'Sunliner' related posts that I can find and so far I've only seen reference to five different 15 footers. Also, a couple of forum members have mentioned that in 5-10 years of being into vintage vans, they've also only seen about five 15 footers. Does anyone know have many were made originally? Has anyone got a collection of photos of various 15' Sunliners they've come across? It appears as though even if I was lucky to find one, I would have to pay a premium, whether it was restored or not. As a guide, what would be a reasonable price to pay for a project? or completed project? (ie over and above what a 13' Sunliner might go for)
Cheers, Tim
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Post by sutcac on Oct 7, 2015 21:52:33 GMT 10
Hi Tim. I'll be blunt. A 15'/16' Sunliner either as a project or "ready to use", ain't going to happen for you.! ....(with your stated budget of $15k)
To answer your questions:
1.Nobody knows how many were made. My guess. As few as a dozen or two.
2.Photos available would be the same as the ones you have researched on this site.
3.Price for a project...$8k/$12k. Completed $20k/$30k.
I said it before and I'll say it again.......read my lips......you will get a VERY serviceable OLYMPIC that will suit your needs perfectly AND within your budget.
And as the good Lord said unto Moses....be patient my son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Sutcac
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Post by shesgotthelook on Oct 8, 2015 16:25:57 GMT 10
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Post by sutcac on Oct 8, 2015 19:37:53 GMT 10
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Post by patrick on Oct 8, 2015 19:47:45 GMT 10
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Post by 65walt on Oct 8, 2015 19:55:45 GMT 10
Hi Tim , in your quest to find out how many 16 footers were made I know they were made to order with a display on show in foster wk shop.ABout 8 months ago I managed to buy a showroom display model1965sunliner purchasing it from original owner.needs a full going over.you can check out our 13 footer " pearl " @sunnystays.com.au.Good luck with your search!. Walt.
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