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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 11, 2015 17:42:49 GMT 10
'CARAVANS YET TO BE IDENTIFIED' THREAD
Quite frequently on the Vintage Caravans forum we see photos posted of a caravan that none of us can identify. Happily, in some instances, someone comes along later (sometimes months or years later!) and is able to tell us the origins of the van, which is fantastic. Where appropriate the photos are copied to the relevant thread in the Down History Lane section, or a new DHL thread created. On other occasions the post about an unidentified caravan just sinks down the thread list and is forgotten about. To help us keep tabs on such unidentified vans, this thread has been created as a place where photos of caravans with an unknown origin can be posted and readily found, because they are on the one thread.
Any forum member is welcome to post photos of an unidentified caravan on this thread.
Each caravan posted on this thread will be given a Reference Number, such as UC #1.
If you look through this thread and are able to tell us the origins of one of the vans shown, please feel free to post on the thread and include the Reference Number in your post so that we know which van you are writing about. The relevant photos can then be transferred/copied to the relevant location in the DHL section.
Don Ricardo
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 11, 2015 18:06:53 GMT 10
REFERENCE NO: UC #1'Bulleen Caravans' caravanPhotos of the following 9 ft caravan owned by Aza were posted by him here on 13 September 2014:       The manufacturer of this caravan is unknown. The general view during discussion was that R G Smith of Bulleen Caravans was a caravan retailer and/or second hand dealer. Roma caravans also had a premises in Bulleen Road, Bulleen (Vic), but was discounted as the manufacturer. See the link for further discussion about the caravan's origins. If you are able to tell us anything more about this caravan please post on this thread using the reference number so that we can connect your post to the caravan concerned.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 11, 2015 18:28:27 GMT 10
REFERENCE NO: UC #2Unidentified van, possibly of South Australian originDuring the Mildura V V Nationals we met Phil who had several vintage caravans, including a 1949 Don. One of his other vans the one shown below and was most likely of South Australian origin, as indicated by its roofline, and 'Tudor' style ceiling. The van had been collected from a farm in the vicinity of Mildura. In discussion at the Nats, Lazza suggested that the van was an early Adventurer, however this was later discounted by Lazyacre, son of one of the owners of Adventurer caravans. One cue as to its origins is the stove alcove, the design of which is typical of Rowvans - so maybe it's a very early Rowvan?? The van is a fair size - 14-15 feet in length. The roof has been overlaid with galvanised tin, as has the lower front. Otherwise the cladding is bondwood. The layout consists of single bunks at the front and a dinette at the rear which folds down to a double bed.   Front:  Rear:  Internal:      The van has a very unusual tow coupling:   If you are able to tell us anything more about this caravan please post on this thread using the reference number so that we can connect your post to the caravan concerned.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 11, 2015 18:42:45 GMT 10
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Post by kingswood308 on Jun 12, 2015 23:14:19 GMT 10
UC 2 Would be a Playtime or Rowvan.
UC 3 Perhaps a Hawthorn.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 22, 2015 17:44:25 GMT 10
UC 2 Would be a Playtime or Rowvan. UC 3 Perhaps a Hawthorn. Hi Kingswood308, Sorry for the slow reply!  I also wonder if UC #2 might be a very early Rowvan, and in fact speculated about the possibility on the DHL Rowvan thread here, and noted some of the similarities. However, that's all it was - speculation. I would love to find some evidence one way or another. Regarding, UC #3 - that's a possibility I hadn't considered. We know that Hawthorn sourced some of its vans from South Australia and then did a bit of re-badging, but those vans were built by Adventurer. This van has the hallmarks of a South Australian van (tudor ceiling, etc), however I haven't seen any Hawthorns (or Adventurers) using an FJ tail light or with the little lip under the front and rear. So, at this stage my money is still on it being a Roadmaster (which used the FJ tail light) or a Clipper (which had the lip, the external colours, the same shaped flash on the side and the pattern in the lino). I'm still open to further discussion and/or suggestions though.  Don Ricardo |
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Post by kingswood308 on Jun 22, 2015 19:51:00 GMT 10
U2 is either a Rowvan or Playtime, to confirm that, I would need to see the end of the sink. U3 is most definitely a Hawthorn (Built by Roadmaster) Who sadly have built their last ever van  |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 22, 2015 23:52:07 GMT 10
Hi Kingswood308, Sounds as if we may be pretty much on the same page. Re UC #2: Drat - sorry, I didn't get a better photo of the sink! What particular aspect of the sink would tell you one way or the other? You mention Playtime. The info we have about Playtime on the forum thus far is that all their vans were built by someone else - Rowvan, Wayfarer (possibly) and some other firm that we haven't yet identified. Do you have further information on Playtime? Did they ever produce their own vans, for instance? Or are you just saying that UC #2 may have been branded as either a Rowvan or Playtime but they would have come out of the same factory? Re UC #3: We know that Hawthorn sold vans under the Hawthorn and Burwood brands that were built by Carapark, Adventurer and Moreland, and probably a few other manufacturers. Have you seen or heard of Roadmasters being sold as Hawthorns as well? And have you seen examples of other vans like UC #3? It would most intriguing if you have. (Of course Roadmasters were also sold as Greythorns in Victoria.) I'm really interested to hear what more you can tell us about these two puzzles. It's really great when we can put some of the pieces together and get a bit more of the whole picture. Don Ricardo |
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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 18, 2015 13:01:03 GMT 10
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Post by humpty2 on Aug 19, 2015 9:55:26 GMT 10
Whats the info regarding the sink??
Shape is soooo Janorma!
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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 20, 2015 21:52:12 GMT 10
Hi Humpty,
You are referring to the van with the identifier UC #2?
Yes, I think it's built in a similar pre-War style to Janorma, but your van is better fitted out inside I think.
Kingswood308 didn't tell us what he was thinking in terms of the sink, but unfortunately I didn't have a photo of the end of the sink in any case.
Don Ricardo
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Post by caterpillar on Nov 28, 2015 20:13:01 GMT 10
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Post by kingswood308 on Nov 28, 2015 21:15:18 GMT 10
Hi Humpty, You are referring to the van with the identifier UC #2? Yes, I think it's built in a similar pre-War style to Janorma, but your van is better fitted out inside I think. Kingswood308 didn't tell us what he was thinking in terms of the sink, but unfortunately I didn't have a photo of the end of the sink in any case. Don Ricardo Sorry Don, I missed this post and apologise for the late reply. I feel very strongly that the van is a Rowvan, but it depends on the bed end of the sink, at that end the van that was built by Rowvan also had another name, those ones had a section of timber that went from the above cupboards to the sink. I had one until a few weeks ago, when I finished it I sold it. I do have photo's of the section, but I am unable to figure out the new format for taking photos from photobook (Or what ever its called to this site. I will send a photo to you Don. |
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Post by caterpillar on Nov 29, 2015 8:33:35 GMT 10
Update on the Van I posted in this section, we excitedly took a rubbing of a name that had made an imprint below the window. It read Fred Holman and something else we can't make out but thought it may have read "Brian". We purchased this van in Perth, assuming from the Bluebird" label it was of NSW origin. A search of this forum revealed another Perth van also of unknown make and year with a Fred Holman caravans sticker. Not much closer to any identity, but thought the additional information may be of interest the hitch appears quite unique.
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Post by caterpillar on Nov 29, 2015 9:56:05 GMT 10
Ok I now know - thanks to this site the strange hitch I referred to above is a Henderson, we can now see this marking on it also.
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Post by cobber on Nov 29, 2015 10:44:51 GMT 10
G'day caterpilla, Even though the forums 'search facility' is not working at the moment I see you have managed to find a bit of information related to your van   including the thread about vandalays van which was also located in WA. and the brand of your tow coupling, so you're doing well It would appear that Fred Holman was a dealer in caravans, sorry I can't help with the identity of the van but I reckon somebody will be along soon to help out seeing as you have put a bit of effort into searching the forum yourself  Cobber. |
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Post by cobber on Nov 29, 2015 16:47:23 GMT 10
G'day again caterpillar, Have a look at this van and let us know if it's close to the shape of your van ? It claims to be a 'Roma' van but I wouldn't bet money on that being factual, that style of name plate had a habit of popping up on many different brands of caravans. Don R. Or hughdeani will have a better idea as to who built your van ...... maybe Cobber. |
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Post by caterpillar on Nov 29, 2015 23:02:09 GMT 10
Hi Cobber,
Thanks for that took a look at that "Roma". It certainly is very similar. The differences I can see is ours has a rounder back end, the aluminium on the Roma is corrugated in the front, ours is a diamond pattern all over. The awning in the front also looks wide on the Roma. Not sure how much of these could just be differences in models.
Again many thanks, we are becoming a little obsessed with this search and the forum has been very interesting and most helpful.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Nov 30, 2015 19:46:05 GMT 10
Re: Van UC #2 above:I feel very strongly that the van is a Rowvan, but it depends on the bed end of the sink, at that end the van that was built by Rowvan also had another name, those ones had a section of timber that went from the above cupboards to the sink...I will send a photo to you Don. 
G'day Kingswood308, Now I'm with you, after seeing your photo. However, the van we saw didn't have the panel at the end of the sink or the bench. You can see the end of the bench in the 9th photo in my post (the one facing the table at the back of the van). If it did have the panel, I would be almost certain that the van is a Rowvan. Even as it is, I reckon like you that there's a better than even chance that that's what it is. Don Ricardo
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Post by kingswood308 on Nov 30, 2015 20:21:22 GMT 10
What was the other name Rowvan's were called please Don, escapes me at the moment.
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Post by Geoff & Jude on Nov 30, 2015 20:43:06 GMT 10
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Post by kingswood308 on Nov 30, 2015 21:06:53 GMT 10
That's the one I was thinking of !!
Thank you..
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Post by Don Ricardo on Dec 4, 2015 17:19:45 GMT 10
Hi Caterpillar and Cobber, Interesting to see the photos of Caterpillar's van, and a nice puzzle to work out who might have built it, eh? Anyway, I've been doing a bit of thinking since I saw the pics and your discussion. I'm not sure I can add much, but here goes... The first and most obvious clue is the name plate which says Caterpillar's van was 'supplied by Bluebird Caravans' of Belmore, NSW. Following down that track, the only Bluebird caravans we know anything about at this point (and that's hardly anything at all), are the caravans built by Huntsman in Ballarat for someone called Mike Collins who sold them branded them as Bluebird - more info here and here. Caterpillar's van is from around the same era as those built by Huntsman (early 60's), however, I don't think there's any connection between the vans Huntsman built for Mike Collins' Bluebird brand and Caterpillar's van, because: (a) Caterpillar's van doesn't look like a Huntsman on a number of counts, and (b) Mike Collins was based in Melbourne not NSW (according to Huntsman's son). OK what else can we deduce about Caterpillar's van? Well we know that it was sold at some stage in NSW (whether as new or second hand we don't know). We also know that it has a Henderson hitch, and Henderson was a NSW company - see here. In the early 60's and the decades before, caravan manufacturers tended to be fairly parochial, ie they purchased most of the parts for the vans they built from the state in which they were operating, and then sold their vans almost exclusively in that state (with a few fairly well known exceptions). Based on that, I reckon that the combination of the Henderson hitch and the 'Belmore NSW' name plate means that the van was almost certainly built in NSW, although we don't know by whom as yet. At the same time, Caterpillar's van does have a number of similarities to Groovygramps' Roma, and the differences Caterpillar has noted (re the profile of the cladding, etc) may simply reflect the fact that one van is older than the other and some changes to styling were made over time. Of course that doesn't necessarily help us a great deal because Roma was based in Melbourne, and although Roma built vans for various dealers, the dealers were only in Victoria (as far as we know!). In addition some Romas were also built by someone else as well (including Huntsman as it happens!). And what about the Fred Holman sticker and the fact that Caterpillar purchased the van in Perth? Well I think that just means that at some point the owner or a caravan dealer transported the van from NSW to WA - most likely when it was not new - and it was then sold to someone in WA. So trying to bring all this information together, I reckon that Caterpillar is most likely correct in thinking that we are looking for a manufacturer who was based in NSW (with a bit of a chance of Victoria because of the style and similarities to the Roma). Maybe Hughdeani has some ideas as Cobber said? (Just trying to attract his attention! )Have you tried looking under draws and in cupboards, etc, for any clues about build dates or the suppliers of the materials for the van, Caterpillar. Sometimes there is some very useful info written in hidden places. And Cobber: ...Even though the forums 'search facility' is not working at the moment... I haven't been having any problems with the search facility. Are you still having difficulties? Don Ricardo |
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Post by cobber on Dec 4, 2015 19:04:55 GMT 10
G'day Don R, Congratulations on your determination and investigative genius in trying to track down the origins of caterpillars van. I agree that one thing for certain sure is, it wasn't built in WA As for the 'search facility' , which is something all forum members should learn to use because it enables one to find answers to questions that have often be asked many times during the forums 11 years 4 months existence. It is now working again for me It was coming up with a strange message stating, in effect, that an angry bear had invaded the system and pro-boards were aware of the problem and working to fix it. Cobber. |
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Post by shesgotthelook on Dec 4, 2015 19:27:33 GMT 10
I know I'm probably way off the mark, & it doesn't have a sliding door, but.... UC # 2 looks an awful lot like a Furness to me.
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including the thread about 
