Cobber's 1936 ( actually built 1933/34 ) PLYWOOD Caravan

[cobber]

1936 plywood?.

(It was later confirmed that this van was actually built in 1933/34 ..see the story HERE

« Thread Started on Apr 10th, 2006 at 8:53pm on the for sale / wanted thread

As a direct result of attending the ROMP (Relive Our Motoring Past) display at Picton N.S.W on the 2nd April 2006 I have been contacted by somebody who has what he believes is a 1936 plywood caravan. He rang me and it took me over 15 min.to get to his place, he lives six klm away from my house

She is old....and unique...no 240V power, has an ice box & a sink (no water tank), a gal box fitted above the sink that has shelves in it and slides out through the side of the van (see photo) so you can gain access to the sink (weird), two single beds at the rear, and the back of the bench seat up the front
of the van lifts up to form a bunk above the seat.. the van is 10’9” body length..8’ floor length & 6’ wide.

It has been bogged in a few little spots, it would need stripping right back to the ply, there is some ply damage up front to the inner and outer skins (it is fully lined inside) some of the frame work holding the fly screens would need re-building but all in all not a hard restoration..(just a long one....for me).

Now the bad news...he wants more money than this poor old pensioner is prepared to pay, I think he is asking what it would be worth after restoration...I may be wrong.

I would be grateful if members could send me a PM suggesting what you would pay for it...if you are close to what he wants, and you want it, I will put you in touch with him.
If nobody comes close I will let him know...he may come down.

Now 24/05/06.
He did come down in price so I bought it.
spring and brakes


Caravan chassis

near side


off side, you can see where the cupboards above the sink slide out.


rear


ice box and the cupboards above sink.


Rear beds & the multi functional cupboard





Wheel bearings are presenting a problem at the moment. Near side ones are ok.
The off side outer bearing has been replaced at some time over the last 70 years with a normal caged roller bearing. The inner bearing needs replacement but everywhere I take it they say
“struth, never seen anything like it”.
The nearest taper bearing is too large on both the cone and the cup...looks like the best option is to have a new one machined.... unless somebody has one laying around in the shed they don’t want?.



Cobber.

[cobber]

G’day Col,
Thanks for that offer mate but before I would put you or Kris to that trouble I will exhaust my options here in Sydney town.
So far I have only shopped around my local area in Campbelltown and have found an engineering place who will duplicate the bearing for around $100...that may be the best
option.
I did cart the wheel around to a few places and they mostly agreed that it was off an early 1930s Hillman, so thanks for putting me on the right track there.

Regards,

Cobber.

[Deleted]

Hi Cobber

Can just picture you walking into a bearing shop with a with "a 1935 hillman wheel under one arm and a buggered bearing in the other."
The thoughts that must go through the bloke behind the counters mind would be worth a giggle.

"Yes Sir....... having trouble with the Hillman again are we "
"Have you considered buying a newer car sir???"

;D

Your quest for bearings

I have 2 areas of concern here.

One is an old fella sending his bearings away . People in their senior years tend to loss thier bearings with age. You do not want to accelerate the process do you???

Two is . I have concerns about sending anything south of the 32nd parallel ( round about Sydney) . Customs may not allow the parts back over the Mexican border. Or worse still the parts could end up in the hands of those two badlands outlaws Manuel and Marguritta Kaybee.


Be carefull mate.
Reddo

[Deleted]

Ok Col

Your secrets safe with me. If i happen to bump into him I wont say a word.

Bye the way Col.
Did you here about the rod builder from Croydon Victoria who applied to go on the TV show "The Worlds Biggest Loser"
Rumour has it he got a rejection letter from the TV company stating that they didnt want any professional losers on the show
;D

Sorry Cobber but i aint gunna stand by and have some grease monkey from down south baggin' us from the superior state.

Now back to your bearings. If ya get someone to machine them ya gunna havta find someone to case harden them. Would it not be cheaper to drop a different axle from around the same period under it. Something with bearing sizes/ hubs / stud pattern/ rims that are still available here on earth???

Reddontcopoopfromexico

[cobber]

Us old blokes stick together (shut up Reddo, children
read this forum).

During my quest I went to one of those wrecking
yards that has been in the same spot since time
began...you know the type, you climb over engines,
rear axle assembles, wheels, mud guards, all of
which look as though they haven’t moved for years,
grease everywhere. Finally get to the “office”. Two
old blokes (not as old as me...but old) siting having
a cupa. One bloke says “Hillman for sure mate, had
one when I was a young bloke, had the car loaded
up with me mates one saterdee night...went
screaming round a corner .... bloody wheel came off
......bloody three studs... no bloody good”.
His mate said “5.25 x 16 tyres...I got a couple of
them buggers at home....you can have ‘em....I got
no use for ‘em”, and he brought them in a couple
of days later...good blokes.
When it came to the bearings...they didn’t have a clue.

Anybody know if Noah’s ark had wheel bearings?

Cobber.

Now... July 2008.

At last I have discovered a bit about the wheel bearings
on Ol' 36....it's only taken two years.

During those two years I have sent photos of the
bearing to various bearing suppliers both in Australia
and in the UK. Those who did respond had no
suggestions as to what the bearing came off.

I recently put the photos on the “Classic and
Vintage Vehicle” forum in the UK...a “Morgan” enthusiast
almost immediately recognized them as having been
used on the early “Morgan three wheeler” cars prior to 1931.


It appears that the brake backing plate and brakes
are the same as those fitted to the “Morgan Three Wheeler”
but it is certain that the hub & brake drum is not the same as fitted to the Morgan, so that's another line of investigation to be followed. There have been suggestions the set up is similar to the Austin 7 Meteor ? .




I contacted the "Morgan Three Wheeler Car Club" in the UK to see if bearings were still available, I was told that there might be some old stock about, or possibly used but serviceable parts available... he would see what he could find.
Subsequently this gentleman sent me two sets of inner and outer bearings.... one set to restore Ol'36 to original and the other set as spares.
So I now know the bearings were made by the “British Hub Company”, and it might be fair to assume they also
supplied the hub to “Brockhouse” engineering.... then
again it might be off an Austin 7 Meteor it has been suggested.... it could also be Morris Cowley or early Morris Oxford.

Now 30th August 2008..

Stumbled across this article in a 1936 “Practical Mechanics” magazine “How to make a £ 20 Three Wheeler Car”.
In the article they state that the hubs for the two front wheels can be obtained from “The British Hub Company, Ltd.”
So maybe, just maybe, the above guess that BHC supplied the hub and bearings to “Brockhouse Engineering” could be correct.




So, do I want a Morgan three wheeler or Austin 7 as
tow car.... I think not.

The “British Hub Company” were big time in the
manufacture of bearings and hubs for English cycles
and some motor bikes, back in the 1930's.

Cobber

November 2008

Many people notice, and comment, on the shape of the "sun burst" side windows on Ol' 36.
While the shape of the windows is pretty unique the glass in the windows has involved a bit of interesting research for me.
The glass is known as “wavy” glass.... the effect is most noticeable on the two front "Bay"/"Dormer" ? style windows.

“Google” leads me to believe that from 1923 until 1938, when Pilkington developed the “Twin ground polished plate system”, all “flat drawn sheet” had this type of distortion, so I see this as further evidence that Ol' 36 was made prior to 1938.

For reference see:-

londoncrownglass.com/History.html

Cobber.

[Roehm3108]

Hi Cobber
A very interesting van you have there. It's different to the usual lantern-roof vans (remember I nearly bought one in Melbourne?) in that the lantern section is at the front, rather than the back. In my 1951 Keith Winser book there is a similar van called the Flynn Cabincar. It's 10ft, has a well floor and hatch. Perhaps yours is a fore-runner to it? Or it could even be a one-off hybrid. Whatever, you have a collector's piece and I'm sure it's in good hands.
Cheers
Ray

[Jim]

roehm3108 said:

Hi Cobber
A very interesting van you have there. It's different to the usual lantern-roof vans (remember I nearly bought one in Melbourne?) in that the lantern section is at the front, rather than the back. In my 1951 Keith Winser book there is a similar van called the Flynn Cabincar. It's 10ft, has a well floor and hatch. Perhaps yours is a fore-runner to it? Or it could even be a one-off hybrid. Whatever, you have a collector's piece and I'm sure it's in good hands.
Cheers
Ray

G'day Ray
It's good to see you back online here..
How's the move going mate?

[Roehm3108]

Hi Jim
Slowly slowly - still tiling! ;D ;D
Ray

[cobber]

At long last I am able to get started on the restoration of Ol’ 36.
The inspection has revealed that the ply on the front of the van, both inside and outside, is all that
will need replacement...I think.

The front offside corner...somebody tried to fill a fair sized hole with car bog.


The bog didn’t work....water got to the inside panel.


The outside ply removed, the inside ply will have to come off too.




Every thing, including the timber mould around
the edge which is usually aluminium “J” mould
these days, has been screwed with steel screws.
The screwdriver slots are impossible to clean out
so the ply was just ripped off and the exposed
screws and nails were then pulled out.
To loosen the mould I will cut the screws with an
angle grinder at the slot the ply fitted into
The really good news is the frame work is in
excellent condition.

Cobber.

[cobber]

G’day members one and all,

Work has been progressing on ol’ 36..all-be-it at a much more relaxed pace than some other works in progress.
As mentioned previously the frame work required no work on it at all.
The inside ply is 4mm thick and the external is 5mm thick. To provide a flush fit when
the new ply was fitted I had to do a fair bit of hunting around to get an external ply
5mm thick. Austral Plywoods are the only people making such a thing but nobody in
my neck of the woods stock it or would get it in for me (Mister Ply did his best but to
no avail). Austral Plywoods were very helpful and put me onto a supplier after
checking that he had it in stock.
What I ended up with is “External hoop pine faced bending ply” good stuff but not
cheap. 4mm for the inside was not a problem plus 7mm for the seat and an 8mm off
cut to make a couple of fly screens.
The external ply went on like a dream and the grain looks too good to pain over.

Fitting the inside out was more fiddley, but no dramas fortunately.

I am now into the fun part...sanding back prior to painting.
After removing the top coat, which was a milky white, somewhat powdery paint, laid
on roughly so that there were numerous runs in it, we get to the original paint that is
so solid I think I will leave it there as the base coat. The colour I put on top will be as
close to the original as I can get it.

Man at work..get a go at my seat, it provides five graduated hights for sitting and
standing...great invention.

Paint stripping has revealed a few unknowns about the vans history. A sheet of ply on
the nearside has been replaced sometime during the last 70 years. The door, which is a
“barn door” style has had the lower half replaced by the look of things and on the off
side a sheet has been replaced under that slide out cupboard thing above the sink. I
have not yet made up my mind if that thing belongs in the original scheme of things, to
my mind it would be more likely that space was used by a water tank hanging on the
wall...that would mean there are no cooking facilities in the van...so what, you cook
outside eh?


Two unresolved issues...the wheel bearing and the bendy timber “J’ mould.

That’s all folks...for now.

Cobber.

[kingy]

Hi Cobber,
Thats going to be one very unique van when you've finished, it'll certainally stand out because of it's unusual lines and features and will no doubt get heaps of attention, looking forward to seeing it when finished.
Cheers kingy

[trodler]

Hi Cobber.
I was talking to a bloke on Australia day and he knew of someone who had some timber
steam bent for hood bows from an old bloke in Sydney somewhere, so if you make some enquires he would be able to bend some timber for your corner mould.

Cheers.
Trodler.

[cobber]

Col, Original colour was cream...cream and cream.
Even the side mould appears to have been added later.
The roof was cream...the inside is cream.
The patches of green that you see I think is the
undercoat because there is nothing else under it.
I’ll send you a PM re. the wheel bearing.......bit of a story.

Kingy....don’t hold your breath mate, she won’t be ready for Coledale.

Trodler...The main hassle will be getting the profile
made up in a bendable timber, no hurry.

Had a bloke come today to sandblast the mighty
chassis of ol’ 36.


I did tell him it was only a little caravan...but he
came well prepared.


He charged me $60 which I thought was OK...since
I had previously got a quote for $400 from a bloke
who use to be a plumber...or a roof tiler.
I think this fella felt bad about what he did to
my driveway.


But he said his brother worked for the local council
and he would bring me some hot mix to fix it
up....so things worked out all right in the end, eh?

Cobber.

[chippydave01]

hey cobber u got a bargain price 4 your sand blasting $60.try getting a bobcat in sydney to do a job and they make up this special term called "float' $50 JUST TO BRING THE MACHINERY 2 YOUR PLACE.He must have felt bad about ya driveway . i thought float was a good day in my boat look at the size of the machinery he runs.Anyway u saved hours on cleaning your chassis ,i spent hours just cleaning mine ,4'' grinder with wire brush numerous drill wire brushes case of carlton cold maybe 2 maybe 3 mind u my fairland is 18 1/2 foot .money well spent .Cheers chippy dave

[Deleted]

Hi Cobber

Geez mate , you sure have had the foot down on the pedal since last Wednesday when i dropped in ( Thanks again for the bacon and egg sanger and cuppa Yvonne and not a word about what i had on behind the ute ) .

Glad to hear that the inside sheet didnt cause you too much strife. You are on the right track when you say that you will leave the original base paint where it is. You could spend weeks sanding away at that stuff and all you would achieve is filling your lungs with rubbish. Better off to give it a good scuff up with extra attention on any damaged, flaking, peeling areas. Then go straight over the lot with your colours.

I had another look at the mates Pugo....Pewg.....Purgoeet ...
" Wog car 203" wheels. They are a bigger stud pattern than the Hillman. Seriously doubt that the bearings would be the same as Hillmans where MIE and the Pugs where built by Champagne suckers that talk like poofters .

And now for the $10,000 question. Will you be dropping "driftwood" off at home after the east coast tour and hitching up "The Oldtimer '36er" for Coledale?

No matter what happens ... your doin a great job on what i consider the oldest van on this website. Keep it up old China and dont fall off your 5 way adjustable steps

Reddoptomisticasever

[cobber]

G’day Redtoe,
So far as I know young fella, you still had
everything on when you were behind
your ute?
As for ol’ 36’s wheels and bearings the
latest suggestion is that they might have
come off an early (1936) Skoda. The idea
appeals to me because the bearing is so
different that it could be something
“made in Czechoslovakia”.
However...have talked to a couple of
“Skoda blokes” and they don’t think Skoda’s
ever had three stud wheels...so there I am, up
the creek without a paddle....again.

Your secrets safe with me mate...bet you
blab before I do

Cobber.

[Deleted]

the 36 is looking good Cobber ......keep up the great work !!!

cheers

Mark

[cobber]

Sandblasting, apart from removing rust, also
revealed a few numbers on ol’ 36. Not on
the chassis unfortunately, but on the tow bar
coupling.
It showed “Pat No 31315/32---BROCKHOUSE----W.Bromwich”
This obviously indicated the patent was granted
in 1932 but to investigate further I found a
very handy site at:-

worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19340507&CC=GB&NR=410095A&KC=A


It told me the applicants for the patent were
Brockhouse J & Co Ltd. & Alexander Thomas
Cameron Dear and they both lived in Hill Top,
West Bromwich. All the technical drawings and
original documents can be viewed there.
Well----I thought it was interesting

If you want to know anything about an
invention...world-wide, give it a go.

The “Brockhouse Tow Coupling”


The axle has the markings B 710 which may indicate it was also made by Brockhouse.


The cast iron spring mounts have no markings.


Cobber.

[Deleted]

Hi Cobber

"Brockhouse" is an English company that also made the "Brockhouse Corgi" which is a collapsable motorbike produced from 1948. They are similar to The "Welbike" used by the British paratroopers in WW2.
after i mail this reply i am gunna go back to the brockhouse site and do some more surfing.
hey its lunchtime here at the sweathouse nad i can do what i like.

have a squiz
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/gallery/pc12.html

Redtoe - official website oldbike nut.

[groovy]

Cobber
I don't know if you have seen this, it's a 1934 Hillman on ebay at Wagga, just thought it may be a lead on your wheel bearings. Oh and wouldn't it go well with the van.
cgi.ebay.com.au/HILLMAN-SUPER-10_W0QQitemZ140019148622QQihZ004QQcategoryZ101894QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Greg

[cobber]

Yeah..OK, thanks Greg ,

How come everybody thinks retired blokes need
something to keep ‘em occupied?
I have just about given up on finding the original
bearing for this van Greg but I think I have found
a modern bearing I can fit without altering the
original housing or axle, so if the right one does
turn up one day I can just slot it on. That Hillman
looks like it has 12” brake drums, mine has 7” drums
& steel wheels.
Thanks anyway Greg...don’t give up....keep looking

Just to show I don’t need another project...yesterday
I went shopping, for wheel bearings...and slot headed screws....... Now there’s another story
Then I slapped some paint under ol’ 36....compare
this photo with the one on page 1, looks good eh?
Then I did a bit more rubbing down.


Today, been rubbing down and applying a bit of underkote...removed doors and windows so
they, and the frame work, can be rubbed down .....tomorrow



(That's the TV arial on the roof)

Cobber.

[cobber]

Steady on Col..I think I might have trouble getting
this old girl through rego. with that “Brockhouse” tow
coupling on it..... without doing anything too fancy.
And look what I found today...another bit of trivia
on ol’ 36 that I thought it was important to share
with everybody...because when they get screwed
back on nobody will be able to see how
histericxxx / historical they are.
These are the hinges on the fly screens fitted to the
two small quarter circle windows each side of the 'van.



And you should see the "original document"

Cobber.

[hwyman]

Hey cobber spotted another 3 stud wheel on ebay on a morris
1928 ? they think! item no 190025545302 Brian.

[cobber]

Sorry for the delay in posting progress info on ol’
36’s restoration folks but here it is now in one big
mouthfull.

In the finish I had to admit defeat trying to find
an original wheel bearing...I can’t even find anybody
who has ever seen a bearing like the original.

SEE REPLY NUMBER 4 FOR NEW INFO REGARDING BEARINGS

I replaced it with ordinary standard size
bearings, which didn’t fit, so the hub had to be
milled out, about 1mm, and shims fitted to the stub
axle. I may eventually end up at “Supershite” and
replace the stub axle and bearings with one of their
$40 jobs...if I can get the original stub axle off...I
have tried...it doesn’t want to come off.
The “Brockhouse” coupling, mentioned earlier, was
fitted to override brakes but had no hand brake as
standard fitting. According to the RTA ...”if that’s
the way it was made you don’t have to have one”. I
figured that the absence of a hand brake could make
for some exciting moments when the van was
un-hitched, so I altered the arrangement to
accommodate one.



The jocky wheel has been fitted sometime in the 1950s I think.. it was a type available from "Hendersons" at that time.
Another concession made to modern day safety
requirements was to wire her up for blinkers...the
lights are on a “trailer board” and can be un-hooked
and hidden in seconds.

The timber “J mold” kept me amused for awhile.
Took the sample to a few joinery places who I
suspect figured that the time they would spend, and
the price they would have to charge, would make
it a very expensive bit of wood...so they wouldn’t
take it on..
So I made it myself, which wasn’t all that hard once
I got into it. The internal right angle was done with a
router and the external shape was made approximate
with a hand plane and sandpaper and finished off once
the thing had been fitted.


Bending it to the curve of the van was a problem
so in the finish I took Will’s advice and used
the “kerfing” method (thanks Will).
That business of soaking in metho and setting
fire to it Reddo don’t work...just burns the wood.
I used screws and “Sikaflex-291” to fix the J mold
and anything else that needed sticking-sealing & bedding.......hope it works.

Another thing I made myself was window stays,
because this style of stay aren’t available these days.
I only had one as a template but when polished and
chromed it’s hard to pick which one it is eh?


Some times the cards fall neatly, like...she had black
lino on the floor originally.
I fished around a bit and finally rang the local
carpet/ floor covering person...told him I wanted lino
for a 1936 caravan...he said “you’d be wanting black
lino eh?” I said “YES! have you got any?”.. ..He said, “YES!” .... Any good, eh?
Actually he had a bit of “Marmoleum” left over from a
roll, which is hessian backed and as close as I can get
to the real thing without pulling some lino off somebody’s
floor.
Another bit of good luck was when I needed to replace
one spring shackle bronze bush. The second shop I
went to had four, exactly the right size...Any good, eh?

On the other hand...sometimes shite happens, like...the
day I painted some of the windows and things, and left
them in the shed to dry. We had a flying white ant
migration event..only about the second one I have ever seen...and they came into the shed.
The only consolation was that the little turds died slooowwwlyyyy.


And like the day I started spray painting the van
(never spray painted before in my life), Will said “it’s too easy”...and it is, thanks again Will...had her all masked
up using that you-beaut “Blue” masking tape...started
at the back...worked my way around...got around to
the back again and an ever so slight breeze had made
the “Blue” tape let go.


The original upholstery has been re-covered at some
time and the cushions in the adults sleeping quarters
had been replaced with foam rubber, or is that latex
rubber ?...a long... long time ago, by the look, and
smell of it.


The foam was wrapped in calico that was stamped
“TEXMARK AUGT 1950 for export only”
Does anybody know anything about "Texmark" ?


For now I will replace the foam and cover it with
the striped material, but long term I would like to
get hold of a fabric similar to the original.


The only other trade name I have come across is this
stamp on a piece of ply that had to be replaced, the photo's
not great but neither was the stamp, I couldn't decipher it but maybe somebody will recognise the appearance of it ?


Finally today (6th July 2008) I have been able to
identify what the stamp on the plywood is all about.
It is the trade mark of D.G. Brims and Sons Pty Ltd who
were one of Australia's early producers of plywood
starting about 1914 at Milton, Brisbane.
They are still operating as “Brimswood Panels Pty Ltd

The evidence is mounting that Ol' 36 was made in
Australia... still not clear if it was to an English plan or not.

Cobber.

Back in the beginning KB 2 asked what the original
colour was...I said cream all over.
Truth is Col, the outside was green, as seen in
small patches here--


First time I took her on the road was on the drive
to the “Blue slip inspection”.
Trouble was...the new wheel bearing bedded itself
on the stub axle a bit further in than I had...so she was
loose and got a knock back. They also didn’t like the
look of the tyres, must admit they had some slight
cracks in the side wall.
Even so, they pop riveted a nice shiny aluminium
compliance plate onto the draw bar with a “TR number”
on it and the statement that “This Trailer was
manufactured to comply with the Motor Vehicle
Standards Act 1989”....... EXCUSE ME!!!

So, tighten the axle nut and buy some new
tyres...5.25 x 16...$183 each ouch!
Upon returning to the Blue slip joint, and after
checking my rights, and after getting the van
passed, and before paying them,I asked them to
remove the B.S. plate and stamp the TR # onto the
draw bar.
Boy...didn’t that make their bottom lip hit the floor.
They explained that I could remove the plate and
re-locate it somewhere inconspicuous...they said it
was too hard to stamp numbers onto draw bar.

After that, all it takes to get registered
is .........forms.......and money.

"Restored to her former glory" .

If you think she looks a bit front heavy....your right.
The overall weight is 540kg.
The weight on the jockey wheel is 98kg.
The front view.

The rear view.


So there she is , not finished.... but presentable.

Cobber.

Here are more recent photos of Ol' 36 (2/05/07).
The lantern roof has been painted white, the green waist
line has been extended across the front, the aluminium
mold along the bottom edge has been replaced with a
timber one & she has a hub cap.


And this shows the "trailer board" that is held on with
wing nuts and can be removed in a flash.


February 2011..... how time flys.
We thought it was time to make Ol' 36 a little bit more photogenic, I hope we have succeded



IT HAS BEEN FOUND THAT THIS VAN WAS BUILT IN 1933/34,
See the story HERE


Cobber.

[firefighter]

hi cobber
congratulations on a nice restoration
you must be proud to have a very early van
well worth the time & money you put in to the van
window stays original one 3rd in from the right
geoff