dorian
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Post by dorian on Oct 5, 2010 18:42:58 GMT 10
Hi VV's What size an awning for my Sunny? I have the original annex (which I'll keep) but it's too much like a house. So I want a simple awning. Bit of shade and cover for the camp chairs and table etc. Two members of this forum kindly gave me their old awning to use as a template. It is currently 4 metres by 3. Width fine. But is it big (long) enough to cover all?  I'm thinking 4 x 4?? Any awning advice? And do I need all those pole holes? moi |
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Post by Franklin1 on Oct 5, 2010 21:15:02 GMT 10
G'day dorian, One of the benefits of you having a 4m x 4m awning is that three other caravans won't have to worry about bringing theirs. They can just park on the other three sides of yours and share all that space underneath!   Typically, awnings are around 7ft width (distance out from the van). Increasing that width means you have to account for the "sagging" effect of the canvas between the van and the poles. Rain puddles ON the canvas rather than flowing OFF the canvas. To overcome this you have to have the centre pole(s) higher than the end poles (make it look a bit like an A-frame), plus have stronger ropes and pegs that are able to exert more force on the canvas to keep it taut. You also have to consider the van door scraping under the canvas when opening and closing. The more the canvas sags, the more the door will "scrape". Our awning was home made, and ended up being about 6ft 9ins width. We can comfortably fit our table and two chairs, plus the portable bbq and gas bottle, plus some other bit and pieces, underneath it. If we cop heavy rain (which we have on one occasion), we can herd all the stuff to the middle up against the van, and still keep it dry. Our awning is made from 12oz canvas, so it is fairly lightweight. We have three poles, spaced 1.5 metres along its 3 metre length (ie. end-centre-end). Heavier weight canvas would probably require poles spaced at about 1m or 1.2m spacings. A 4m x 4m awning would have to be made out of 16oz canvas, I should think, which would end up being a fairly heavy pack when folded up. Life's too short to be gruntin' and groanin' under the weight of canvas, plus all the poles, ropes, pegs required to hold it up. cheers, Al. |
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Post by sutcac on Oct 5, 2010 21:27:55 GMT 10
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Post by Don Ricardo on Oct 5, 2010 21:41:13 GMT 10
G'day Dorian, A couple of years ago I got an awning made for our caravan, which we now use quite a bit because we don't have to accommodate all the little Ricardos (who in fact are now all bigger-than-me-Ricardos) in an annexe. Ah...I see Sutcac has kindly posted a photo of the awning on our van in the post above (see the middle photo).I got the awning made two metres wide (ie distance out from the caravan), which is just a biiiiit narrow - not quite wide enough for a couple of people to sit under and be out of the sun (or the rain). I did a few measurements at Mildura and came to the conclusion that three metres would probably be too wide, so somewhere between two and three metres would be good. Did I hear Franklin1 say something about 7 feet...  One thing to remember about the width of the awning is that, according to our friend Larry the annexe maker (listed here), canvas comes in standard widths (which I actually think he said was two metres??). If you go wider than that you have to have a join which may be prone to leaks (although see below). Regarding length (ie along the caravan) - it depends on the length of your van. Our normal annexe for a 14 ft van is 12 ft long x 10 ft wide (sorry, I've got to revert to imperial measurements now). Your Sunny is 13 ft long I think, so you may have trouble making the awning longer than 10 or 11 ft. (I guess the length of your existing annexe will tell you how long it can be.) In my personal opinion - make it as long as you can. I don't think you'll regret having a bit of extra coverage. Regarding joins and leaks. Although I wouldn't discount Larry's comments, our 12 ft by 10 ft annexe has a width-wise join in it (ie running at right angles from the van), and it has never been a problem even in very heavy rain. By the ways one of the advantages of having a simple awning instead of or on top of an annexe is that the awning can be made of lighter canvas = lighter to lift and set up, packs smaller, faster drying... Don Ricardo |
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Post by sutcac on Oct 5, 2010 21:54:01 GMT 10
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Post by atouchofglass on Oct 6, 2010 6:27:08 GMT 10
Hey All
One little trick someone posted on another caravan site
When the weather turns bad make sure one of the poles is shorter than the others.
Usually the middle one.
That way the rain will not pool on your annex
Why is this bloke always talking about wet weather......
Welcome to Nth Qld
Atog
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Post by Franklin1 on Oct 6, 2010 9:21:12 GMT 10
G'day atog, We've found that shortening the end poles is better than shortening the centre pole, when it's raining. The higher centre pole allows the door to keep opening freely, and the water is directed towards the outer corners. The lower corners also help to shield the underneath area when the rain is coming in at a bit of an angle. Dorian, as well as making the canvas awning for my van, I also bought a heavy-duty poly tarpaulin and cut the seam off one side and stitched some rope into a hem along that side. I can feed the tarp through the sail track the same as the canvas awning. Now when we go touring, I have a choice of setting up the poly tarp if it's wet, or the canvas awning if it's dry. Nothing worse than packing up soggy canvas every day when you're touring in lousy weather. This photo shows the poly tarp being used during wet weather (it's fitted to my 1967 [snicker, snicker] Millard pop-top )...  Sheppo, sounds like you might have the old "marconi" track on your van. Blokes like reddo, and others, know more about whether you can keep it, or not. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Jennison on Oct 6, 2010 9:36:27 GMT 10
Gday Sheppo,
yep the old type track is called marconi track and is very difficult to get hold of(both track and slides) these days.
I and others have managed to pick up the slides in the not too recent past but it takes a bit of time, perseverance and probably luck to find it. These days modern vans use "sail track" like what they use to thread sails on a boom or mast.
If you wish stick with the old original marconi track all I can suggest is to start ringing around all your local region caravan suppliers in case they have some old stock and to keep on asking here on the website for people to keep their eyes out for them - you never know your luck!! ;D
PS/ FireballV8 found some for me at his workplace so you could try a PM to him, but I'll be surprised as he didn't have many(be aware also that there is 2 different sizes of track)
regards
jennison
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Post by humpty2 on Oct 6, 2010 19:55:38 GMT 10
I hate to appear a pedantic old fuddy-duddy (if the hat fits etc.. :  but I prefer the 5 poles across the front. You can see the shape that is generated to allow for water run off.....proven this long-weekend....  Dorian, I haven't measured how far it comes out, but it is exactly 2 pieces (lengths) wide. BTW No prizes for guessing the location......I don't take you everywhere with me ;D ;D ;D  |
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dorian
Full Member
Sundown
Posts: 247
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Post by dorian on Oct 7, 2010 11:25:56 GMT 10
Wow, what a great response! Thanks. This forum never fails me! Thanks to Al, Don Ricardo, Sutcac (yes, how many pics of an annex can one man have but thanks) and the ever-faithful Humpty. I think I will go for 4x4. Yes, I have the original macaroni rail and now thanks to Sue and Stew, the guides for the new awning. ;D Getting it on is a pain. Do you guys have any tips? I'm 6.2 but clearly I'll have to take a step ladder with me right? Feeding it on the rails looks like a drag. What's the best solution? Deep breaths? cheers Dorian |
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Post by sutcac on Oct 7, 2010 14:19:55 GMT 10
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Post by JBJ on Oct 8, 2010 7:12:01 GMT 10
Hi,
My two bobs worth on awning tracks.
The first awning I ever used had Marconi Clips, & it was a total pain to use, It was an old Millard pop top, so wasnt very high to the track. If you didnt get them right they caught on the track as you pulled it on. Second van I bought that had an annex was a 10 foot 1958 Purdon ply van, & it had a sail track fitted, which would probably have been one of the earliest fitted ( I think).
The difference in setting up the annex was unbelievable.
My Sunliner when I bought it had a fairly old annex, again with sail track.
I see no historical ( or sensible) reason to use marconi track & clips , unless you already have them fitted.
If you have Marconi clips & tracks on an annex, & want to make an awning, why not run the sail track almost alongside the marconi track, with enough clearance to allow you to use either when you wish. On a Sunliner it means fitting extra wooden blocks inside the roof for the track screws to fit int6o. Other than having to remove the headlining thats not a major task.
I found in my sunliner the sailtrack screws caused a couple of water leaks, & would always in future apply a sealant around all screws thru the roof before installation.
I reckon the reason the Marconi track system lost favour is because it was a mongrel of a thing.
JBJ
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dorian
Full Member
Sundown
Posts: 247
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Post by dorian on Oct 9, 2010 13:05:11 GMT 10
Thanks again for this reply JBJ and Sutcac. Yes, my son and I just tried to feed the old awning via the marconi track. Well, all I can say is that thank God Marconi invented the radio because if this was his only invention I'd say he was a total knob. What a NIGHTMARE!!! So ahem... where do I buy a sail track and how do I fit it? Any close up pics of the setup Sutcac?  regards, Dorian |
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Post by DC3Td on Oct 9, 2010 18:07:17 GMT 10
Hi Dorian. Seeing as you`ve got the original,why not stick with it. Simple solution to easing the canvas along the track is to rub a dry cake of soap along the groove allowing small flakes to drop into & along. Alternatively talcum powder or a viscotene spray. cheers gordon
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Post by cobber on Oct 9, 2010 19:40:44 GMT 10
G'day Dorian, My "Swamp van" has a Marconi track on it and I have and old awning with Marconi clips on it. Tried sliding the awning on the track....... first time hard work, a couple of the clips were a tight fitting , just spread the edge of the clips and they run like they are on rails  Then... there is a knack to bunching the clips up along the track as you feed them on, once you master that it's a piece of cake. Maybe not as simple as newer methods but....... we are into "vintage".......... ain't we   Cobber. |
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Post by cobber on Aug 23, 2012 17:47:30 GMT 10
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Post by JBJ on Aug 23, 2012 19:30:37 GMT 10
Hi Cobber,
That brought back memories of Coledale in 2006.
The pix of our 1958 Purdon van & annex ( 4th from end) shows a genuine built in the late 1950's annex that was in the van when we bought it, probably in 2004 or 2005.
The annex was perfect, because if they are well made & stored properly there should be no problems with canvas annexes.
Memories. I heard one today, that the greatest part of remembering the good old times is having a bad memory.
JBJ
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Post by cobber on Sept 7, 2012 12:27:51 GMT 10
G'day Den,
I found a few more memories for you....... vintagecaravans.com Nationals at Morgan in 2006.
I've posted photos of awning/annex taken at that event on the end of my previous post
Cobber.
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Post by steve1 on Oct 28, 2012 15:10:27 GMT 10
Hi All,
I'm a new member, having recently bought a nice 1960 Sunliner in great nick.
However there is no annex or awning. I've read about the track issues above but am keen to keep the original track.
Two questions... Firstly did the sunliners originally have annexes? And secondly could anyone point me in the right direction for a awning and possibly an annex to use as a template and someone near melbourne to make it...
Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Steve
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Post by shesgotthelook on Nov 9, 2012 14:19:23 GMT 10
It's done!   |
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neal
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by neal on Feb 10, 2013 10:22:23 GMT 10
FRANKLIN 1 Was mentioning that he had to consider the possability of the door scraping the roof/awning when it is touching the door.
All I can add is many years ago my parents had a 72 millard that we used for all our holidays (god wish I was a kid again) and the door would also scrape the annexe roof, so the old man fitted a slallish but wide wheel that came on a bracket that the old man fitted to the top of the door on the out side, and itdid an absolutely brilliant job of solving that problem, hope it helps.
Neal and Bron.
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Post by humpyboy on Feb 10, 2013 10:32:50 GMT 10
FRANKLIN 1 Was mentioning that he had to consider the possability of the door scraping the roof/awning when it is touching the door. All I can add is many years ago my parents had a 72 millard that we used for all our holidays (god wish I was a kid again) and the door would also scrape the annexe roof, so the old man fitted a slallish but wide wheel that came on a bracket that the old man fitted to the top of the door on the out side, and itdid an absolutely brilliant job of solving that problem, hope it helps. Neal and Bron. More common than you think, I can recall seeing many a van with just such a wheel fitted. |
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Post by Franklin1 on Feb 10, 2013 12:12:03 GMT 10
Yep, door rollers (also known as 'annexe protectors') are found on many vans. Bondwood vans would have typically got a door roller that was home-made using a wooden cotton reel. Later plastic cotton reel versions would have also been used, but not on dinky-di true blue vintage bondwood caravans (ay, cobber ) Aluminium caravans from the 1970s got a roller fitted that looks like this one...  There's no reason why these can't be used on the earlier aluminium caravans. They are still available from caravan spares sellers, eg. CaravansPlus Another version is this one with a nylon wheel...  I bought half a dozen of these when a local caravan repairer closed down and had a clearance sale a couple of years ago. I think this version was used on caravans from the 1990s, but I'm not certain of that. The nylon wheel is 40mm diameter, so it's a larger wheel than the other black roller above. I haven't seen this nylon version listed in the parts suppliers lists, so I might have the last six in captivity. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Franklin1 on Feb 10, 2013 13:30:01 GMT 10
Well, I stand corrected (sort of)... After doing some searching, I found the white nylon door roller to be fairly readily available in the UK caravan market. It is sold over there as an Omnistor door roller (see last product at the bottom), and also here. It can also be listed as Omnistor e depending on who's doing the spelling. Still can't find any results for it being sold here in Australia. --------------------------------------------------------- Just by the by...what do our fabuglass members use for a door roller? cheers, Al. |
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Post by cobber on Feb 10, 2013 13:31:10 GMT 10
This is interesting aye? The protector fitted to 'Driftwood' when I bought her in 1993 is very similar in construction to those half dozen Al bought but....... on a smaller scale because my nylon wheel is only 20mm diameter. It was on the van in 1993 but I have no idea when it was first fitted You will no doubt notice the slot headed screws are not 'dressed' correctly and the surrounding area could do with a paint touch up job, I'll attend to those jobs NOW !  Cobber There........ all fixed now.  Why do some people paint over all metal items ? Some people even paint brass... bronze.... copper....  ... they look much better if you get the maid to polish them. Cobber. |
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I'm thinking 4 x 4??
....every sunny Sunliner resto that I have seen has converted to using sail track 
... they look much better if you get the maid to polish them.