Your opinion?

[Scootman]

Hey all. Just came back from a long walk along the beach. Ended up chatting with an old couple that were parked in a campervan on the shoreline. Got into an interesting conversation with them and found out things about my area which I didnt know. These two werent even from Cairns , they were from Melbourne and had travelled up here every winter since their kids left home. Previous to that they "vanned" closer to home. Anyway the long story cut short was that they made the comment to me that there was a time when the road from Brisbane to Cairns was just one long highway of Caravans, and over the last twenty years they had noticed a severe demise in the amount of vans on the road and that many van parks closed down or just dissapeared. They told me about one here in Cairns on the beach that is in fact a beautiful spot and is now just overgrown bush, that just closed down due to lack of business.
Why did they think this has happened? Their answer to me was that up until the 70s a caravan was considered a good cheap family holiday but over the years van prices had got to a point where many are more expensive that the car itself and therefore out of the price range of most families.
What do you think is the reason that vans have taken such a sharp drop in numbers over the years , or do you think they are on the rise again.
Would be interesting to hear others opinions.
Scoot

[Jim]

G'day Scoot

That’s an interesting discussion you've raised. Here’s some ramblings to consider.

Up until the 1960's my involvement with caravanning was more as a participant (One of the kids) than anyone involved in the finances of the exercise.
But as we were usually pretty skint for funds the cost of holidays would have been a major factor in the how, the what, the why, and certainly the ‘if ever'.

As a family we sometimes hired a van but more often borrowed one, towed it somewhere and stayed onsite for whatever duration was affordable.

Tents often figured quite a lot in the holiday picture as well.
My earliest strong memory as a teenager was tents erected around the teardrop camper that's in my 'avator' picture.

We spent the whole of the Christmas school holidays from mid December to February on the beachfront with this set up.
So in that respect it was cheap, as you suggest.

I first bought a caravan in the late 60's.
It cost me $3000, which was the equivalent of about nine months wages back then, and it wasn't the most expensive van around by any means.

Relating that to today it would be about the same as paying about $30-35,000 for a van on today's market.
On a "What you get, for what you pay" basis I'd suggest that new caravans today are either cheaper or you get more for the same money.

I'm sure someone on this discussion group has old adds for vans from years back that could indicate typical prices for new vans back then.
And I'm sure many will remember wages paid back then.

The cost of a van is only one factor of course, you have to tow it and pay to stay wherever you wish to be, and today the choice of destinations is more diverse.

Cars are effectively cheaper today than 40 years ago, although that's thoroughly confusing now as a result of a much wider range of cars today capable of towing a van.

Fuel?
30 cents a gallon for petrol comes to mind in the mid 60's (city price) rising to 50-55 cents a gallon in the bush.. Are there any better memories of petrol prices reading this?
That's (lets say) 7 cents/litre, so in Melbourne petrol is now about 14-15 times more in cost while wages are (say) 10-12 times more.

Ok.. So let’s say fuel is a little more expensive on a relative basis, but I doubt that alone would be a deciding factor as to whether someone buys and travels with a caravan.
The advent of diesel powered vehicles and LPG has offset that price difference.

One can only assume things must be going ok in the caravan park business as site fees seemed to have taken quite a hike in recent years. I can’t think of any prices we’ve paid back 25-30 years ago, maybe someone else can help there.

Many parks end up with high overheads of course when they provide swimming pools, spas, games rooms, BBQ’s, camp kitchens and other assorted features.
I do get a bit miffed when other parks that don’t have the same facilities ride on the coat-tails of the ones who do and charge close to the same prices.

We have our own personal ban list of caravan parks we won’t go back to, and for a variety of reasons.

I'm not sure where I'm going with all this, but the above thoughts may prod some memories and hopefully some discussion, maybe even the odd argument.

Back to your question Scoot..

Here’s some points to ponder from the last 20 years or so, to throw into the mix and add to your discussion..

*.. The rise of 4 wheel drives has broadened the scope of where people travel to on holidays.
Holiday destinations have now broadened to well off the beaten track substantially beyond the sealed highways of Oz.
Birdsville may now be just as popular on the travel itinerary as traditional highway destinations of years ago?

*.. Caravans are now much easier to tow and can go places you'd never think of going years ago.
To be honest, most old vans are real dogs to tow.. (That should provoke some ire on this website..)

To be fair, later designs plus modern equipment that's available now can make towing a van at closer to normal highway speeds much easier, safer and with less drama than years ago.
Maybe that disperses the string of caravans travelling sedately up the highway?

*.. Cheaper airfares may mean people are flying now rather than driving to holiday places.

*.. On the issue of caravan parks closing..
Many caravan parks are on prime land, prized for redevelopment into units, hotels or whatever, with much better returns on capitol than the humble camper or caravaner.

*.. Land tax has made many caravan parks unviable businesses.

*.. While the fuel crisis of the early 80's (as such) took its toll on caravan sales, industry figures show that caravan and camper sales figures have risen dramatically in the last ten years.

*.. That said, most new caravans are set up for two people, bigger vans, more features, less beds.
So is it mainly the grey empty nesters who are buying new vans?

*.. Camper trailer and wind-ups sales have boomed in the last 15 years or so and have probably taken a large share of what might be caravan sales.
These units sleep more and are probably better suited for families.

There are over 50 camper trailer manufacturers around the country now, up from maybe half a dozen serious ones 20 years ago, and not forgetting the comeback of the fabulous little teardrops.

Combine a capable camper with a 4WD and families can go places way off the beaten track, so you don’t see them around the more traditional destinations?

*.. Maybe most people are going somewhere else other than Highway One along the Queensland coast?

Who knows..
Food for thought..
If you've read this far you have endurance.. : )
Any more ideas for Scoot's discussion people?

Jim

[Scootman]

Just a quick one , have to go and find somewhere to hide from The Cat 5 cyclone that is about to wipw us out.
I think you have made some very valid points, on an inflation scale I guess a lot of things are cheaper now than they used to be. Fuel included and I guess airfares etc are cheaper so Oseas travel is more accessable.

Still there is nothing like pulling up in a camping ground with all the other middle class people like me and enjoying ones stay.
Gotta run
Scoot

[Deleted]

September 11 2001 did wonders for the local caravan industry .....here in the West its a booming industry with waiting periods for 6 months plus for a new van ......and try getting repairs to a vintage caravan by local caravan repairers, they are flat out catering for modern van repairs & don't want to know about vintage caravans ......

And try to get a spot for a vintage caravan display at the annual Caravan Industries Show in Perth .......every square metre of show space is taken by dealers and trade people .....I have offered "Joker 11" & my FC Holden with all the 50's gear for a display, and I know it would be a hugely popular display at the show, but, according to the organisers, there is no room ......I think its more like it won't spin a buck, so they won't make room......imagine what a display like that would do for this website. Alot of people who visit the C.I. show are elderly retired caravanners, they would have plently of caravanning yarns from the past, and possibly know the whereabouts of old vans.

Wa's most popular holiday destination is Bali, but after the aeroplane scare in 2001, and the Bali bombings in Oct 2002, the Bali holiday lost flavour, so the highway north to places like Carnarvon & Coral Bay in WA's north has become a caravan highway, similar to what QLD would have been like all those years ago.

In the late sixties/ early seventies, caravan manufactures were building large heavy vans with all the bells & whistles, with the relatively new Holden & Ford v8's being the popular tow cars, until the major fuel scare of the early seventies, when I believe caravanning started a decline.
I remember Singapore on a cruise ship being a popular holiday in the Seventies .....pre Bali being the cheapest holiday.

[panda]

In a nutshell overseas holidays are very cheap these days snf fuel costs are high but I agree with Scoot nothing can beat the comradeship you get when you pull into a caravan park there is always someone to have a yarn with

[willandlyn]

Gidday Mark
you may remember on the site when I told you where I found my Teardrop built in 52 from aluminium from a DC3 aircraft As the word goes from the mouth of the ex whiteman Park curator (W.As biggest old car motorbikes and generally anything old related to motoring) reputed to be the first commercial van built in aluminium in Australia
My van was parked under a tree rotting away next door to John Days holiday home in Mandurah for ten years
.John Day Caravan sales is the largest caravan dealer in the southern hemisphere and sells literally thousands of vans a year probably in the tens of millions
at around an average price of $25.000 dollars only 40 sales makes a million dollars Plus extras
Wouldnt you have thought he might have saved it and displayed it as a historic piece of West Australian History on the floor or under a pergola as a subject of interest of days gone by(personally Im glad he didnt or I wouldnt have it)
truthfully it is special people like us that care about preserving the good old vans and cars for future generations to appreciate as well as the fun good times an mateship we all enjoy it is a pleasurable and worthwhile pastime but people like the promoters of the caravan shows couldnt give a tinkers about vintage vans because Dollar signs gleam in their greedy little eyes if you look carefully and listen you can hear the cash registers chattering in there heads
Here come some more wood ducks QUACK QUACK QUACK with all of the after sales extras finance Tax and crap they spin as you drive out they devalue 30% they then use the van 6 times in the first twelve months three times in the following twelve months maybe once or twice year thereafter after five years the van is worth around 12.000 dollars in the trade and sold on to another wood duck for $18.000 plus tax and extras and so on the cycle repeats itself
how do I know this stuff because I worked for SENCAS Caravans in cannington in the 70s and they where the biggest Caravan dealers in the Southern hemisphere at that stage nothing changes at any one time around fifteen percent of the population are dealing in caravans by either buying or selling
But this is the good part When we were at Guilderton I would say that the average price our vintage caravans might have been around Two to three thousand dollars
ELVIS cost me $2200.oo All up plus my time and I can guarantee you that every one in our group had just the best time in fact missed out on nothing that you couldnt do in the expensive vans ( except shower and well you know what )I walked to the block for that
at that time the Sandgroper Caravan Club were at the Park and these are Serious!!! Caravanning dudes with an average Rig truck and van in excess of $100.000 dollars and to be fair are really decent folk
however where were all the people including the Sand groper club ?
You guessed right taking photos of our rigs and talking continuously about how wonderful and how fantastic to see these relics being looked after and preserved
I can tell you that the promoters that you talked to mark are so dumb that that with all the hundreds of thousands of advertising dollars that are spent on
T V.Radio and newspapers one phone call to you mark and we could have probably arranged a display of maybe 6 to 8 cars and vans that would have broken up the monotoneous row after row of white aliminium
off road, on road ,multi striped decals and clones ranging from ten to two hundred thousand dollar Winnebagos
and if you were to ask anyone of the patrons at the end of the show which was there favourite display
you guessed it again Probably the vintage vans
the truth is caravan and boat shows are seriously boring by inviting our group on an annual basis and using us as an attraction you can rest assured our group would grow and it would freshen up an otherwise boring and repititious Modern day caravan display as well as a talking point to attract even more of the public to consecutive shows where they can see
caravans from as far back as 1947 50s 60s 70s and some fun vans as well as what the future holds for them in The caravanning experience
Shortsighted !! Yes
missed opportunity to promote the use of
Caravans !!Yes
Mark remember Murphys golden rules
he who has the Gold makes the rules
and
It is morally wrong to allow suckers to keep there money
thats what these shows are all about MAKING MONEY

Will

[Deleted]

Onya Will

Well said .
What I fear most in this day and age is that someone is gunna come along and build REPLICA vintage vans which will appear as original on the outside as our vans but full of the mod cons and being carried on suspension with all the latest technology.
CLONES if you like.
We have already seen the late model teardrop ( yellow i think it was) that some one from the west is producing . It was on display at a motorshow over W.A somewhere . Someone on this list posted the photo of it .
It has happened in the motor vehicle (Jeeps) and motorcycle industry ( Harleys).

With todays cashed up society there will be plenty of takers ( wood ducks) who will gladly part with $$$$$$$$$ of the hard earned to get "The look" of the genuine item.
Those that dont have the time or the nouse, or Know how to search out and restore the old "real McCoys" will just march up to John Days yard on saturday morning and shell out a squillion bucks to secure the "Image".

I dont care how good the repos will look. the real test will come when we roll into van park and pull up next to one of these "Pretenders" . My bet is that the average Joe will still bypass the late model trendies and strike up a conversation with the bloke getting his favourite ale out of his ice chest or boiling the billy on the metho stove.

There are some things in life that money just can't buy or reproduce and vanning history is one of them.
To sum it up.
"Late model replica......$50,000+"
"The Genuine Item.......priceless"
"The Genuine item being towed by a vehicle from the same era........icing on the cake"" ;D ;D ;D

Reddo

[jazhow2]

;D
A lot of genuine and well thought out comments there...!

But a slight recess....there is much hope!!!! ;D ;D

Sad to say it comes from accross the border.....a Victorian deserves some credit for being a step ahead!!! ;D

Found this New Caravan dealer on the Melbourne to Adelaide highway on our way back from collecting our van!



Apart from the little van outside (which of course caught my attention...and isn't that sort of the point)).....
There is a fully preserved vintage van in the showroom
as part of their display.

Also has a Teddy Bear display...........

Theory being stop..relax...and spend!

Caravan Industry event co-ordinators could take a leaf out of this blokes book!!!!!!

If your coming past that way drop into ;

CLASSIC CARAVAN SALES
Near HORSHAM VIC.
Ph 03 5384 2254



And ....... ;D ;DPLEASE...take some photo's of the van inside..

BECAUSE


THE BLOODY PLACE WAS SHUT WHEN WE WERE THERE!!!!

[Will]

Marc if you had of taken the time to walk over the hill at the rear the owner probably supervising a very important country ritual watching his 10 year old daughter out the back milking old bessie
now you know us vintage caravan owners are just a we bit backward when it comes to going foward
do you know them there pictures that you put on the net give me a buzz because thats here I would like to be right now
sittin on the the old verandy with an ice cold beer rockin back and forward and checkin out the big rigs rushing from place to place
god damn I could have sold another Weiss bar but thats allright Ill just crack another stubby and value my peace of mind and my 5 star life style (yawn)

Will (the dreamer) ;D

[surferboy]

Cathy and I will probably go to the caravan/camping show this weekend......Perhaps we should tow the Baravan down there and park outside and see the reactions. It could be fun.

[bubbles]

I dont think the amount of caravans on the road has diminshed, we have travelled since 1970 and have not notice any fall off in fact I would say that there are many more out there now and according to the QLD Gov they expect that by the end of 2005 there will be about 50% more than in 2000. What we have noticed is the different types of people now travelling where you had a lot of folk travelling after jobs , and holiday folk with young family , now you have a lot of retired folk who like to have more comfort and pick the parks which give them that, look at the amount of large units on the road today some which seldom use caravan parks
Maurice

[belinda]

My mother always said "the only good thing about the good old days is that they are gone". Some days I can see her point.

We caravanned on long weekends with a hired van when I was a kid, and I always wondered why we stopped. Now I have kids I think I know why. A weekend in a van with the kids is OK (especially when two people get farmed out to a separate tent) but I don't think I could take much longer. They are dear little boys but .....

I also have some inkling now what it must have been like for Dad towing a big van on 1970's highways behind Mum's Chev Impala. If you were on the road in those days you got a good look at all the vans because they were motionless in very long traffic jams.

So yes, there were lots of vans then and yes, I'm glad there are less of them on the roads these days. This goes along with me being glad I don't have to knit socks and school jumpers for the whole family, or iron sheets, or cook roast dinners on a regular basis.

I wish my Mum were still alive so I could tell her "I now know what you were talking about".

[jackpmaloney]

Stateside, 'vans (we call 'em RVs) are clogging the roads everywhere. Public and commercial campgrounds abound - everything from primitive (complete with wandering grizzly bears) to all mod cons like pools, hot tubs, saunas, cable TV, etc.

The big trend is BIG rigs - 40+ feet with multiple slide-outs, automated satellite dishes, etc. Unbelievable luxury - and unimaginable cost!

My wife and I tow a simple 13ft. fiberglass egg:

It seems like the Taj Mahal compared to the years we spent backpacking, climbing and wilderness canoeing with nothing more than we could carry. Guess luxury depends on your point of view!