Gracemur (Bundaberg, Qld)

[Don Ricardo]

GRACEMUR CARAVANS

Manufacturer: William or Tom (??) Murray, under license to Sunliner Caravans
131 Bargara Road, Bundaberg, Qld

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This thread originally began with the tongue-in-cheek question:

So who was Grace Muir exactly??

Hi all,

I've been trying to get my head around the history of the lovely Grace Muir, I mean Gracemuirs. Here's a couple of questions for people who know a bit about Gracemuirs and Sunliners - Humpty, JBJ, Boblor, Vantoura, or anyone else who may know the answers.

There have been a couple of Gracemuirs posted on the forum of recent days, and a few other references over the years, and I have picked up that Gracemuir refers to the Sunliners built in Bundaberg, but...

1. Was Gracemuir the name of the family who built them, the name of the company or a placename?

2. Is the name Gracemuir or Gracemur? I've seen both listed.

3. Were all Bundaberg Sunliners built by/at Gracemuir, or only some of them?

4. Were the vans referred to as Sunliners or Gracemuirs, or a combo of both? For that matter what did any nameplates and/or leaflets call them?

5. Is the main distinguishing feature the three window layout at the front? Did any of the Forster Sunliners have the three window layout, and if so how can you tell the difference between the Bundaberg and Forster Sunliners?

If you can tell me the answers to some or all of the above, I'll add a bit of info to the relevant DHL thread.

Thanks in anticipation,

Don Ricardo

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Later the same day Banno posted some answers to the above questions in a post which has subsequently been deleted. His answers were along the following lines:

1. Gracemur caravans were built by Tom Murray in Bundaberg, Qld, under licence from Sunliner. The vans were named after Tom's wife Grace Murray. (Banno said that the builder was William Murray, but subsequently it was discovered that it was Tom Murray.)

2. So the proper name of the vans is 'Gracemur'.

3. Gracemur built all the Bundaberg vans, with production ending in 1972.

4. The three window layout at the front was one distinguishing feature, but there were others.

[Don Ricardo]

Hey Banno,

Thanks for the info...and I thought I was being humorous asking about Grace Muir. But I was closer to the truth than I realised!

Please feel free to tell us what you know about the distinguishing features of the Gracemur vans. It will be useful info at some stage to someone trying to work out if they have a Gracemur Sunliner or an "ordinary" Sunliner.

If other people have additional info they can add, the more the merrier. It's these little mysteries that make V V history so intriguing.

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

Hi again Banno,

I look forward to hearing more once you've visited Grace Murray's daughter. You've already answered a lot of my questions, so thanks for what you've been able to tell me thus far!

I just checked the map and see that Beerwah is not all that far from Bundaberg (well compared to Melbourne or Hobart, say ;D ;D ;D).

Don Ricardo

[Don Ricardo]

G'day Banno,

One more question about the Gracemur vans I've thought of...

I'd always gathered that Sunliner set up a second factory in Bundaberg, maybe to cope with the demand for their vans or because they were particularly popular in Queensland. However, from what you've told us about William and Grace Murray, it sounds like they were running a completely independent operation - maybe building their version of Sunliners under licence or some similar arrangement? Of did Sunliner just see the opportunity to make a few bucks by selling old molds to the Murrays and letting them do their own thing?

I am not sure if you know the answer to that, but maybe that's a question for the Murrays' daughter when you catch up with her.

Don Ricardo

[boblor]

Hi VVers
Whilst on our recent tour of Coast / Far North / Gulf / South West Q'ld and NSW, on the 14th June we interviewed Grace Murrray, her son Ray and wife Margaret in Bundaberg. We have several pages of notes , photographs, and copies of the original trailing arm type suspension dated Oct. 1958. We visited the factory site, and the building still remains today as a fibreglass factory.
So you will have to wait for me to digest the notes and put down some history for all from what I have been given. The name Gracemur is derived from Grace Murray, her husband Tom was a local builder, and they had four children Arnold, Shirley, Jan, and Ray. Arnold and Ray both worked on the Gracemur Sunliners. The moulds were purchased from Foster, Tom took a trailer to Foster to collect the moulds in Aug./Sept. 1959 and produced the first van in Jan./ Feb. 1960 and sold it to a Mr. and Mrs Snell. After Mr Snell passed away, Jan saw the van in a caravan yard for sale and bought it back and still remains with the family, Robert Wells the grandson.
The Murrays sold the factory in mid 1964 to Bill Klingsporn who continued to produce the vans for a period. The Murrays paid a royalty on each van produced.
There is more but you will have to wait until I rewrite my notes.
Cheers boblor

[Don Ricardo]

Gracemur caravan listed for sale in For Sale/Wanted section, 17 September 2009 by Johnny & Annie:

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Gracemur caravan spotted in Cootamundra by Reddo's bro, pics posted in the For Sale/Wanted section on 10 September 2009 here:

[lebubbles]

Hi, we have bought a "Forster" caravan. The number from the chassis is probably Q7 - 000 - 007. (The number was retrieved from the chassis before the previous owner had it sandblasted.) The windows are perspex with fibreglass frame. Only the side windows pop out. The full front window wraps around. The previous owner had the van for 28 years and bought it from a guy called Ken at Eurong Beach on Fraser Island. We are interested in finding out the history of this van and its true make. Eventually we would like to renovate the van to its original colours etc. It has independant suspension and tubular frame. Eyebrows on side windows. Originally white in colour with green small arrow flash and spats.

[boblor]

Hi lebubbles
When we interviewed Grace and Ray Murray in June this year, they indicated all their vans chassis no.'s commenced with Q ( the first built Q1 -600 - 001, and used fibreglass window frames). You have not stated what the interior is finished in eg fibreglass lining and cupboards or PVC lining with timber framed cabinet work. I assume yours is PVC / fibreglass because the Murray's indicated that the later, the chassis no. started with QX------. All Gracemur vans (during Murray's time, late 1959 to mid 1964 when they sold out to Bill Klingsporn who continued production for a period of years) QX model was known as the X-Master (Thrifmaster), and all the Murray vans had spates fitted.
I am not able to sort out your chassis no., but my guess is that you have a early model Gracemur with the fibreglass windows as Gracemur when to alum. window with frames and sashes, and not sash with rubber edge seal to the body.
The 'Thrifmaster had straight axle and ellipticle springs. Clearance lights on all Gracemur were fitted below the window sill level. The web chassis used 1" SHS on top chord and 1" dia. on the bottom chord.
It would be good to have others comment on my statements above to clarify some history, by the way Gracemur during Murray's ownership produced about 55 - 60 vans, and all were fitted with o'ride brakes as it was required by law at the time.
Cheers boblor

[Don Ricardo]

On 21 June 2011, Sue posted the following:

Sue's GRACEMUR Reno
Hi I finally worked out Photo bucket so here are my pic's
Sticker above the front window " GRACEMUR" and at the back [under number plate] was "GRACEMUR Manufactured in Bunderberg"
I carefully lifted what was left of the sticker's so I could get them redone...

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Following are some pics of Sue's Gracemur from her post. The first two show the van after she had commenced sanding the van, but still show the original livery:





The van after it had been repainted in the original livery:



Some internal photos:







Part of the Gracemur chassis and tow coupling:





For more info and photos of Sue's Gracemur click here.

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On 22 June 2011, JBJ commented:

...Lots of minor differences with the Sunliner I had the same age, noticeably interior, aluminium side windows instead of fibreglass framed, door hinges seem different...

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And Humpty2 followed this up with:

...The colour scheme is a replica of the first Sunliners produced back in "58.......I don't know if they were going to continue with that scheme as I have only seen 1 done in it.
The chassis numbers on Gracemurs were different to the numbering system on Sunliners inasmuch as I can decipher a Sunliner number ie YYMM // progressive number.
The more you look at other Sunliners/Gracemurs the more differences you will find.

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Then on 24 June 2011, Humpty2 posted:

Your body is a 59 or 59.
The removable spats were from that era.........and I think some found their way into 1960
As I said before...... the more you look the more differences there are.
Chassis number should be about 8 to 12 inches back from the tow coupling....but have been found right beside it on some Gracemurs

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And Brucenan also added on 24 June 2011:

Gracemur were using removable spats until 1965, from the look of the interior and other features it appears the same as other 65's I know of.
Bruce

[Don Ricardo]

1967 Gracemur caravan advert:


(Source: Keith Winser, Caravan Manual & Tourist Park Guide, 19th Edition, 1967, p 170)

The advert is interesting for several reasons, including:

• The caravan in the advert still has the same livery as Sue's Gracemur shown in the post above, albeit the colours of the van in the advert appear to be in lighter tones.
  
• The caravan in the advert still has the same spats as discussed in the post above.
  
• The advert shows lists Gracemur as the "Queensland manufacturers of Sunliner caravans". Sunliners are also referred to in the signage on the factory in the background. Whether Gracemur therefore referred to the vans they produced as 'Sunliners' is a possibility. But the manufacture of Sunliners in Forster, NSW, and Geelong, Vic, had finished by the time of this advert, so it is possible that Gracemur was simply underlining the fact that they were continuing the Sunliner line...

Don Ricardo

[olycondor]

Hello Don, I have spoken to the daughter of the builders of the Gracmur Caravans who lives in my hometown not but a few minutes from me and I have seen the van in her shed that was her fathers, a genuine one owner.

[noblesgarage]

;D ;D ;D Oly my main man :)welcome to the forum That sounds like you've uncovered a treasure there.
You'se best slip round there with the camera and take a few picies for the rest of us flabberglass fans Or are you keeping it a secret till you talk the lady into letting you buy it. Don't blame you if you are.
All the same that sounds like a great V V find An original Gracemur still in the Builders family and this may through more light on the Gracemur Story. Well done and keep us informed of your progress. Brian

[boblor]

Hi All
I have photos of the builder handing over the keys for this van around Jan./Feb. 1960 to a Mr and Mrs Snell. Chassis no. Q1-600-001(Q'ld Jan.-1960-No.1), I alsohave some photos of the van taken in recent times.
The handover photos include shots of the interior, showing some interesting fabrics used at that time.
Cheers boblor

[Don Ricardo]

Information posted by Suzanna on 27 March 2015:

hi all,just letting you know that the home and factory of Gracemur caravans 131 bargara rd Bundaberg...that was still being run as a fibreglass business has come to a end with the passing of present owner to kidney disease.... His wife has decided to wind up the business and has sold the property to Bundaberg Brewed Drinks which has its factory nearby.... May be they will put a Gracemur on display for all to enjoy... thank you V Vanners....

[Don Ricardo]

On 16 April 2015, Heywok posted photos here of his caravan, which appeared to be a Gracemur based on a Sunliner 'type 3' body. Subsequent information from Boblor indicated that Heywok's van is in fact a Sunliner with a modified front window:



For further photos and discussion about the origins of this van on the DHL Sunliner thread click here.

Note: There is a detailed explanation of how to distinguish the difference between the various Sunliner body types on this website.

[Don Ricardo]

HISTORY OF GRACEMUR CARAVANS documented by Boblor

Following is a history of Gracemur caravans based on Boblor's extensive reading and interviews with some of the Gracemur personnel.











Thanks to Boblor for sharing the benefits of his meticulous research with us.

As indicated in the above document, the history of Gracemur caravans is intertwined with the history of Sunliner caravans upon which they were based. If you are interested in the history of Gracemur you will probably also find it interesting to read the documentation that Boblor has put together on the history of Sunliner caravans starting here.

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Editorial note: One of the implications of the information compiled by Boblor is that two of the caravans shown higher up this thread are not in fact Gracemurs, namely the vans belonging to Tucky and Heywok. The basis for this conclusion is that both vans use a Sunliner type 2 or 3 body, and also have the Holden-style wheelarches. According to Boblor's research, Gracemur did not produce any vans with these features. Don Ricardo

[Rodnet]

Well done Bob, well researched, now, if only we can do the same re Sunliner by Walden. Also notice that Gracemur only came in the 13' format. Reading the above, in 1971  Caravan Manual page 255 mentioned NXM, that my well explain the welded on chassis number of old mate from Gunnadah being simply X44..
Cheers
Rod

[Don Ricardo]

On 27 March 2015, Suzanna wrote here:

hi all,just letting you know that the home and factory of Gracemur caravans 131 bargara rd Bundaberg...that was still being run as a fibreglass business has come to a end with the passing of present owner to kidney disease.... His wife has decided to wind up the business and has sold the property to Bundaberg Brewed Drinks which has its factory nearby.... May be they will put a Gracemur on display for all to enjoy... thank you V Vanners....

[suzanna]

hi all, don , I do not know if this is the right spot for this but ,,,,have we or should we have a register of gracemur and sunliner vans... if only for a reference point for future v.vaners... especially seeing how hard it is dating these vans ... like not knowing your birthday.... this is especially hard with my gracemur NXM -60 Which has same paint as sues van pictured, but these were ply ceiling and cupboards, leaf springs and space frame... as listed the murrays produced 53 vans approx. and bill klingsporn only a few... but how many ?... this van has basket weave laminex from 1959 and ply from 1964... more bits of a puzzle you can get makes the history clearer.. thanks

[vantoura]

Hi.
I am currently compiling a register of Forster Sunliners, Waldens Sunliners, Bundaburg Gracemurs and Victorian Skylines. Basically if it looks like a Sunliner I would like it on the register.
All I need is a serial number found on the draw bar either beside the coupling or just behind it on the left hand side. You may need to sand away several years of paint to see it. Let me know if it has a space frame or C section chassis and if it has independent or leaf spring suspension. A couple of photos would also be great and you can email me at [e-mail] Thanks in advance. Richard.

[Don Ricardo]

Two Gracemur "Sunliner" brochures posted by Phil T on the Vintage Sunliner Caravans Australia Facebook page here on 18 March 2022:

BROCHURE 1













BROCHURE 2 - This brochure features a photo of a regular Sunliner