Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 19, 2019 15:47:09 GMT 10
Just out of interest, have you found a serial number on the A-frame of your Wayfarer. If it's a Wayfarer number it will start with a 'W' created out of raised weld, or if it's a Globe number I think it will be just numbers without any letters engraved into the arm of the A-frame.
If you can find any numbers it will help us begin to piece together a dating framework for Globes and/or Wayfarers, so I'll be interested to hear.
Hi Don, no I have searched everywhere without success for a serial number or other marking that could identify my van. I do have Globe embossed on the wheel hubs and the number 603 and Globe on the towing hitch which I think is a part or casting number. I have the Wayfarer patent pending badge inside nailed above the dining seating area and I also have a 300mm long Wayfarer chrome plated casting.
Last Edit: Aug 19, 2019 16:35:11 GMT 10 by redmr2red
Did find chassis number when changing tow hitch, 713. This seems to tie in with the history put together by Franklin1. Still not sure on a year, what do you think Al?
Hi SGTL and Franklin1,
You just know I'm not going to be able to keep out of this one don't you...?
I actually started writing this post two days ago, but my computer decided to go beserk, and then when I did manage to finish writing the post, the forum decided it didn't like what I'd written either and turned it all into gobbledeygook. So I'm trying again! You can't say I'm not persistent. (Dona Ricardo would call it stubborn!!) In the meantime, SGTL has found some of the images I was going to refer to.
As far as I can work out, Globe produced the model of SGTL's Globe for all of the second half of the 50's at least - maybe even a bit of the first half of the 50's, and at least until April 1960. Unfortunately, Globe didn't do very much pictorial advertising, which makes it difficult to pin down when that model started and stopped, especially since they were producing other models at the same time. But we do have a Patent Specification for the model showing that the patent for at least part of the design was submitted in January 1956 (see here).
In addition to all the above, it is also evident that there was one important change to the design of the model during its run, and that was to the construction of the side windows.
The first variant of the model had wooden framed windows with square outside corners and round inside corners where the glass is (I am talking about the external view of the window only here). An example of this caravan is Trish_M's Globe which can be seen here. The second variant had aluminium framed windows with what I will call a 'broad' frame with rounded external corners at the bottom of the window. SGTL's van is an example of that, and the March 1960 Globe, serial number 1255, shown in a post at the end of the DHL Globe thread here is also an example, as is the van in the 1960 Globe advert SGTL posted this morning. (Just by the way, originally we thought that Trish_M's van was serial number 603, but it turns out that 603 is a Globe parts number or patent number.)
So the question is when did the wooden window framed variant get replaced by the broad aluminium framed variant? The strict answer is that we don't know, but it clearly happened between Trish_M's van and SGTL's van with the serial no 713. However, we might be able to have a go at estimating a date for SGTL's van by going sideways...
As we know, the Globe model vans like SGTL's were also sold branded as Wayfarers. Redmr2red's Wayfarer is an example, and it has the wooden framed windows, so it is an example of the first variant. Wayfarer56's Wayfarer (seen in SGTL's post today and here) is another example. Now, we know that Wayfarer didn't start selling Wayfarer branded Globe's until 1956, and for their advertising they adopted an image taken from Globe with an FX Holden sitting on the roof of a Globe caravan. Wayfarer was still using this image in their advertising in 1958 (see here). If you look at the image carefully, you'll see that the windows on the van in the 1958 Wayfarer advert photo have the wooden framed windows. Wayfarer was probably using the image for a while after the change to the window construction occurred, but the point is that Wayfarer branded Globe's had the wooden framed windows when they started selling them in 1956. Now another Wayfarer advert shows another newer Globe model they were selling in 1958 - the Model J - and the advert for that model here shows that model as having the broad framed aluminium windows like SGTL's, so those windows were around at least as early as 1958.
So, what can we surmise from all of this? That the windows in SGTL's van were being used by Globe in 1958 (if not before), so it could be from around that time. Then if we work on the assumption that Globe started production around 1956 (and I have no idea whether that's true!) and numbered all their vans sequentially from them on, and knowing that serial number 1255 was produced in March 1960, that would indicate that Globe produced around 300 vans a year. Based on that, SGTL's van number 713 would have been produced in 1958. So on that basis I am taking a punt on her van having been produced sometime around that year. Admittedly my punt is built on a house of cards - pull out one card and the whole lot collapses - but I still reckon 1958 is close to the mark! Not sure whether that's good enough evidence for VicRoads when you register the van though, SGTL.
Post by kingswood308 on Aug 22, 2019 2:31:15 GMT 10
Don. As you know I have a 52 Globe, identical to SGTLs little one. I am yet to see another one that the front and windows open. Mine was purchased by a well known South Australian painter, I believe it was still in very original condition when I purchased it in 2016 (by memory). I note also mine has 4 stud hubs, all the others I have seen have 5 stud rims, I have looked and looked, but even after a trip to SpecSavers, I am blowed if I can find a chassis number.
I should send you a few photo's to you so you can post them on my behalf. Due to health issues, I haven't been able to do a thing to it, its been 3 years to the day that I last worked on the poor old love.
Ps :- I have owned 3 or 4 Globes and not one has ever had the plaque on it !!
Pss :- My windows are square, unlike SGTLs rounded ones. By 1952, I am going by when her son told me she purchased the van and towed it apparently very easy with her Simca Aronde sedan. I have a sneaky suspicion the van may be slightly older.
Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 22, 2019 22:38:04 GMT 10
Yes, your Globe is an interesting one which precedes those owned by Trish_M and SGTL (and Redmr2red and Wayfarer56’s Wayfarers). The two opening windows at the front (and the opening window at the rear??) are different to later Globes. Later Globes seem to all have sealed front and rear windows, which may suggest that they had problems dust-proofing them.
By all means send me some photos of your van and I’ll post them for you. It will help us work out the sequence of Globe vans, and I’m sure others will be interested..
You can send the photos by FB Messenger or email (I think you have my email address?)
Hi all I need some help with an old Millard It’s aluminium and I think it’s a 1950s or 60s I would like to rehome it. It’s not in good condition I haven’t worked out how to send pics on here yet But can send pics to someone directly if interested Much appreciated Teasha