Leadlight windows

[simonj]

I was wondering what people's experiences were with leadlight windows in vans. Do they rattle themselves to bits or fair well? 

[Roehm3108]

You raise an interesting question there OP. The main users of leadlight windows in caravans were the early Don caravans so hopefully some of the many Don owners will give their feedback about this. I am rather curious whether their windows have deeper channels in which the leadlight sat, that might avoid their rattling out.

I am using leadlight glass in my Cino Vardo build vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/17226/meet-cino-vardo I have converted leadlight kitchen hutch doors and added a protective outer perspex a few milimetres in front of the leadlight, as a buffer from stones mostly. So I also look forward to reading responses to your question.

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Simonj and Roehm,

As Roehm has referenced, all of the Don caravan models built between 1934 and 1956 were fitted with leadlight windows - more than 1,000 vans in all over that 22 year period. Our Don is 69 years old, and we have never had any issue with the leadlighting in the windows. The glass hasn't come loose, and they certainly haven't rattled themselves to bits. The only repair we've ever had to carry out was to replace some of the glass when Son No 3 kicked a soccer ball through the rear window - but you can hardly blame the window for that one!

Over the years, I've spoken to a number of Don owners and inspected a lot of Don caravans with leadlight windows, and have never heard of a problem with them falling apart or the glass becoming loose - providing that the van has been looked after and hasn't been left to deteriorate.  So based on that I don't think there's any issue with using leadlight in a caravan.

To go some way towards answering Roehm's question, here's a couple of photos of one of our windows:





If you look very carefully, the second photo shows how the window has been constructed.  Basically the window frame is rebated to create an inside ledge to hold the leadlight frame and glass.  After the leadlight and glass is inserted it is fixed in with a piece of square beading, which you can just see inside the red lines, and putty.

There are some excellent photos of leadlight windows for a Don being rebuilt as part of a restoration in the thread about Surf Tragic's 12 foot Don here - start on page 3 of the thread with the post dated 2 July 2009.  Surf Tragic's daughter does leadlighting and was able to recreate the leadlight frames, etc.

In the interests of balance, I should indicate that one downside of leadlight windows is that it is a bit harder and more expensive to get them fixed if one of the panes of glass gets broken, than if the window is a single pane of glass.  That's one thing we learnt from the soccer ball incident! 

Don Ricardo

[Roehm3108]

Thanks for the feedback DR, as well as the pics. Seems that these windows are not made any or much differently to the norm, especially when looking at ST's pics. My windows are of the fifties vintage (note vintage content in Cino Vardo's build!), so it will be interesting how well they hold together.

[starburst]

Leadlights won't rattle if they're puttied correctly. After the lead is soldered the entire pane should be puttied using a wet slurry mix of linseed oil & whiting & terebine & a dash of turps & black or grey colouring (well, that's my mixture!) - the process is a bit like grouting tiles. It takes about 3 to 7 days for the putty to set before the panes can be handled and about a month or more to cure. Once set the panes will be secure and fully water proof. The diamond pattern commonly used in vv's is one of the most basic and simplest patterns to do. Leadlighting is a very inexpensive hobby. You only need very basic tools to get started - a glass cutter, glass pliers, a cutting board (scrap ply or chipboard), a Stanley knife, a 25 - 80 watt soldering iron, solder, flux, a felt tip pen, some drawing paper. Most clear and obscure glass is pretty cheap. Coloured glass can be expensive. Lead came and other materials can be purchased from leadlight supplies stores or online.

[starburst]

Forgot to mention that the reason the glass may loosen is most likely due to the putty drying out and cracking, and then dislodging. It's possible re putty the pane in situ with a maintenance slurry using the mix I mentioned in the above post - again, it's similar to grouting tiles.

[Roehm3108]

Hi Starburst

An interesting reply - thanks! A question from a leadlight un-initiated - why can't you simply use a proprietary brand gap filler/sealand?

Also, what is that flat back paint used behind the coloured glass? Mine is lifted in places. Can I repair/repaint the back?

[starburst]

Not sure about gap filler but you can use off the shelf linseed putty and thin it down with linseed oil and a bit of turps. I add a dash of terebine to speed up the setting time. Wipe it on and tap it into the gaps with a rubber squeegee or plastic spatula, then wipe off the excess with old cloths and polish with English whiting or talc.
As for the black paint, I've never used it. To get any type of paint to adhere to glass I wipe on some Penetrol with a cotton cloth and let it dry for at least 24hrs, then paint with enamel spray can.
I'm a bit rusty but I can probably conjure up a "how to make a Don style leadlight" instruction if you want?

[simonj]

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I have done a fair bit of lead lighting for our house but I'd never considered using it in a vehicle.

As Starburst said, it's a pretty inexpensive hobby - and certainly not rocket science. As for the putty - Google "black leadlight putty" - that's what I have always used. It's downside is that it has a limited shelf life once opened. But if you seal it with cling wrap and keep it in the fridge is will last a few months in my experience. For what it's worth, I've found that if you tap your glass and it rattles then it needs new/more putty - which you can do insitu. As for repairs - if anyone is around the Bega valley I'd be happy to help, or show you how to do it yourself.

Thank you again for your comments. I'm tempted to include some lead light in my van reno.

[Mustang]

Sept 12, 2018 18:40:53 GMT 10 simonj said:

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I have done a fair bit of lead lighting for our house but I'd never considered using it in a vehicle.

As Starburst said, it's a pretty inexpensive hobby - and certainly not rocket science. As for the putty - Google "black leadlight putty" - that's what I have always used. It's downside is that it has a limited shelf life once opened. But if you seal it with cling wrap and keep it in the fridge is will last a few months in my experience. For what it's worth, I've found that if you tap your glass and it rattles then it needs new/more putty - which you can do insitu. As for repairs - if anyone is around the Bega valley I'd be happy to help, or show you how to do it yourself.

Thank you again for your comments. I'm tempted to include some lead light in my van reno.

Please do & show!!!

[starburst]

Yes, as simonj mentions, leadlight putty can be purchased over the counter at craft & stained glass supplies. I used to do quite a bit of leadlight work, both new & restorations, and used heaps of putty. It's not exactly cheap so I started making my own. I also did a lot of French polishing and used the same ingredients to make a wood filler paste for prepping & sealing timber.

[Roehm3108]

Hi starburst

I think the forum would value your "how to" input in the technical section. It's a topic that doesn't come up that often (first time in my almost 14 years here), but for all we know people have been searching this site without success and found the info elsewhere. So if you have the time, please do so.

Whilst leadlight windows are generally associated with Don caravans, I know there is a Trail-a-home caravan awaiting restoration in someone's shed, which also has leadlight glass windows in coloured fan-shaped panels in the Art deco style.

Here's a pic, where you will notice that the leadlight windows are repeated in the overhead cupboards too.