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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 11, 2015 13:29:17 GMT 10
So, while I'm obsessing about getting us a functional caravan, I'm also thinking a lot about the poor old Sixteen-Two rusting away in the backyard waiting for "later". Decided I should probably get in there and salvage what I can before it gets worse, then gut it so we can get in there and do some triage on the frame before the rust gets worse. That means deciding what is beyond saving, what salvageable original elements I want to include in any eventual reno (and what I have space to store in the meantime), and what should really depart for a good home elsewhere. I'm going to need some advice from experienced renovators!
But one thing I do know falls in that last category is the full set of pretty much unused original clip-on canvas window exterior blinds, with 3 sets of support sticks, that I just found. They're gorgeous, and I didn't even know they existed! Obviously I was a very obedient child who didn't rummage around under the seats… hehe. Photos later when I'm not on my phone. Matching full annexe has disappeared, sadly, but aluminium poles and full set of ropes still seem to be under the couch bed.
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Post by DC3Td on Sept 11, 2015 16:36:27 GMT 10
Save everything JaA. At least for now.You will more than likely need templates if you`re going to reno.Get/buy a garden shed & store stuff away.At least you know when you`re ready you have the pieces.Oh,& wrap the canvas blinds in cotton sheet & chuck a few moth balls in.
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 11, 2015 20:08:58 GMT 10
The canvas blinds I'm not going to use, and they're too lovely to mothball if someone might enjoy them. I'll certainly make paper patterns from them before parting with them, and impressions of the fastenings — I have a few industrial sewing machines, so making new ones shouldn't be a hassle if I decide in a few years that I desperately need them Anyway, here they are. Would they have been standard-issue?
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Post by shesgotthelook on Sept 11, 2015 21:47:32 GMT 10
I'd be very interested if no one else has beaten me? Happy to pay fair price & postage.
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 11, 2015 22:01:58 GMT 10
Blinds are generating a bit of interest… Can I conclude from this that most similar-age Caraparks have the blind attachment studs on the exterior window frames?
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Post by Don Ricardo on Sept 11, 2015 22:45:41 GMT 10
Hi Justanotheramy,
The external window shades/blinds were standard on one or two brands of caravan at some points in time - Traveluxe in the 30's and Trail-A-Home in the 50's for example. However, in most cases they were bought after-market along with an annexe. They may have been an option available through the manufacturer in some cases, but they certainly weren't standard issue. Not even everyone who bought an annexe for their van would have ordered the shades.
In the case of your Carapark, I believe they would have been after-market items, very likely matching the annexe.
Don Ricardo
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 11, 2015 23:28:32 GMT 10
Interesting. Well, they'll not be of much use to anyone with any other sized windows and without the other part of the press-stud on their windows? I'll try to get better photos of the window side of things tomorrow
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 0:07:01 GMT 10
This is the old girl in her current condition and location. She's been coated in house paint by someone who wasn't me, and… well, you'll see… The good: These lights, front and rear, are perfect. The hot plate/grill looks really good. The windows, frames, and screens need a clean-up, and the front and rear window seals are perished, but they're all in really good knick, considering… The table from the convertible dinette… The laminate needs re-glueing, but that's the only thing wrong with it. No rot, not even any scratches. I took this out of the van today, and stored it somewhere flat with something heavy on the end that's lifting. The paint on the top of the fridge is a bit the worse for wear… …and the seals are obviously gone! But the interior is in good shape… .…as are the badge/handle/etc If I plan to use the restored van as a spare room, the fridge probably could be replaced with a vintage-look modern electric? In which case… is a gas-only fridge in this shape of any use to anyone? Sink and pump tap look good. Toothbrush holder and soap holder look original? Can opener obvious intruder. But what about the cup holder? Anyone know? The tops of the dinette-seats/single beds/convertible double bed are stuffed! But the bases are totally solid: How do I get them out in one piece??? Will it be obvious when I get to it? Something else I didn't even know existed: the light over the stove, above the porthole. Kind of up in the cupboard? Can't see it unless you're making an effort to look up at the flue, but it's lovely! A couple of last things… Just because I've loved them since I was a child… The upholstery fabric on the click-clack couch, mattresses, and cushions: (Mattresses and cushions all gone, couch beyond repair. This will definitely be my first attempt at a repro fabric on spoonflower.com) …and the laminate on all the bench-tops and the table: Okay, that's the good… "Is this original?" and "Can I save this?" questions tomorrow, if anyone has the patience…
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Post by shesgotthelook on Sept 12, 2015 8:40:23 GMT 10
Wow! You are very lucky to have this & in such original condition. If it was mine, I would try to keep it as original as possible & get it out on the road asap! But it is not mine Everything looks restorable to me, lucky about the laminex table, that can be a fiddly job. Re the beds, in our Franklin Caravelle (not yet finished), we replaced the tops only in the dinette but completely rebuilt one of the beds. As they have cushions/ mattresses on them, it's easy to hide the flaws vintagecaravans.proboards.com/thread/11293/franklin-caravelle-project?page=1Why do you need to get them completely out? Does the floor need replacing? Depends on your carpentry skills I guess, as to how far you go. If it's just going to be a spare room, I wouldn't make more work than is necessary. Anyway, far more experienced folks will be along soon
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 8:58:18 GMT 10
I'll get to the bad soon, but… yeah, it needs to be completely gutted and re-done. Floor, walls, ceiling… Between the moisture and the heat, the ply just… cooked. It's all gone. Only the solid timber is still solid.
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Post by DC3Td on Sept 12, 2015 9:53:47 GMT 10
I (& probably others here) don`t get why you want to dispense with so much of the original fittings/features.You`ve got yourself one heck of a Toaster caravan Amy.Save.Save.Save.Sure its a bit tired & worn but gee whiz its got the makings of a truly restorable unit.We have definately seen worse `vans restored! Why would you want to get rid of the canvas window shades for starters? They`re original & like hens teeth to find in that condition. You can still get fridge door seals to suit yours. You can also retro fit an electric system for the fridge thereby retaining its integrity.Take the time to check some of the (what were) wrecked vans that members have restored/refurbished.
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 10:26:53 GMT 10
One thing I know for sure: the original paint never grew lichen! Some of the worst of it, for context. This is where the wall meets the ceiling, above the wardrobe just inside the door. It's right under the known leak in the roof (gooped up successfully with silicone, because something had to be done.) There must be another smaller hole on the other side of the roof, over the middle of the seat/bed? Or might water from the first hole have run across the inside of the roof and then trickled down there? It's the snowfall of dry rust flakes coming off the frame through holes in the ceiling that makes me think I need to gut it over summer and triage the frame, before there's nothing left to save Because it's going to be staying put, and not subject to movement, patching the frame should be less of an issue than if I was trying to get it roadworthy. But. I'd still rather preserve as much as I can. Under that second hole is the seat/bed with the bath underneath it. The mattress had rotted and gone mouldy, and the hinged lid of the bath is falling apart in my hands. Bath (still with plug) seems fine… if a bit rust-snowed in. Upper kitchen cupboard doors are totally stuffed. Hinges and handles worth saving, though. This is still pinned inside the one over the sink I always loved the curved-end little shelf things in the cherry finish over the windows… they're all a disaster, now, delaminating and peeling and… ugh. This is the best of them, over the bath. The wardrobe… One of the doors might be salvageable? But is it worth it without the other door and the middle panel? Shaving mirror and shelf inside the okay-door are worth keeping. Inside the wardrobe, though… so mouldy The other side, right under the hole that let the water in, is much worse. I really don't know about the frame/body of the wardrobe, though? The ply on the ends is terrible, but… I don't think I'll know if the solid timber is effected until I try to get it out? I thought I took a photo of the convertible couch showing the tearing and other problems, but I can't find it. Short version: frame and springs fine, buttons still all there, stuffing and upholstery fabric need replacing. I believe this is quite a pricey job if one goes to an upholsterer? And a bit too complicated for a beginner? Storing it… goodness, I am going to need a shed, aren't I? Oh dear. Thanks for your collective patience I've got some more photos of things that have bigger question marks over them… Can they be saved? Are they original and worth saving? That sort of thing. Umm… hopeful later today.
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Post by akeepsake on Sept 12, 2015 10:39:11 GMT 10
JaJ what a great old toaster you have there! It would be a real shame to scrap it and even worse to watch it sink into the ground before your eyes! There are three major resources you need to preserve this beast. Ability , money and time! Yes money can buy ability and someone else's time but the cost would be mega if by what you are saying a new floor walls framing etc is required. If you plan to restore it yourself and you have the ability then forget about money cause the three resources you need are time, time and more time!!!! If you are drawing a blank still then sell it to someone on the forum you know will restore it so it'll get back on the road again! Don't sell off bits and pieces unless you exhaust the previous two options!! Oh and if you do decide to part it out I'd love the porthole window? Cheers Andrew
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 10:41:49 GMT 10
I (& probably others here) don`t get why you want to dispense with so much of the original fittings/features.You`ve got yourself one heck of a Toaster caravan Amy.Save.Save.Save.Sure its a bit tired & worn but gee whiz its got the makings of a truly restorable unit.We have definately seen worse `vans restored! Why would you want to get rid of the canvas window shades for starters? They`re original & like hens teeth to find in that condition. You can still get fridge door seals to suit yours. You can also retro fit an electric system for the fridge thereby retaining its integrity.Take the time to check some of the (what were) wrecked vans that members have restored/refurbished. Hehe — these are the reasons I'm asking for experienced advice! I'm willing to aquire skills as I go along, but at my current skill level everything looks quite difficult to tackle, so it's hard to tell what's possible and what isn't. When it's… eventually… finished, I want it to look as close to the original as possible. I'm really sentimental about this van, it was the van we had my whole childhood ( the story of how I found it and brought it home is here), so that's important to me beyond the historical integrity of the thing. But… where is restoration appropriate, and where is a re-build required? I'm really hoping for advice The blinds… They're in fabulous condition, and I figure quite hard to find, and if someone with a matching van would be really excited about them then it would be kind of selfish and wasteful of me to hoard them, right? I didn't even know they existed until yesterday, after all, and they'd be much more useful for a travelling van than one staying where it is. (Although I'm now toying with the idea of eventually fabricating something more solid/fixed/hinged that functions like an awning but replicates the way the blinds would look on the windows?) I did not know the fridge could be converted to electric. That's really exciting. I love that fridge.
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Post by akeepsake on Sept 12, 2015 11:07:29 GMT 10
JaJ so glad your going to fix it up !! Well done it'll be a great learning curve but you'll get plenty of support here! If you really don't want the blinds could you post a pic so I could see them as am after some for my Jennison Bondwood also sizes would be good Thanks Andrew Ps it was tongue in cheek re porthole acquisition! I knew it would never come to that!
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Post by akeepsake on Sept 12, 2015 11:16:56 GMT 10
Wow! Just saw more pics from the recovery thread and if this is your family van it's a no brainer ! It'll be a labour of love but well worth it!! Looking forward to the restoration updates!
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 11:20:18 GMT 10
If you really don't want the blinds could you post a pic so I could see them as am after some for my Jennison Bondwood also sizes would be good If you need custom blinds, I have an industrial sewing machine that barely notices heavy canvas, it's a breeze. And the blinds are just rectangles with fastenings, so not beyond my learner skill-set PM me if you want to discuss it further.
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 11:25:17 GMT 10
My apologies for asking experienced restorers an obvious question, and I'm sure there's a thread here somewhere that I've just missed in all my searching, but…
What kind of safety gear is appropriate for tackling delaminating ply that's shedding dusty flakey lead paint? And is disposal an issue?
I know to be careful around the stove bay thing because of asbestos, but what's the deal with the lead?
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Post by Don Ricardo on Sept 12, 2015 12:51:28 GMT 10
Hi Justanotheramy, All the commentary on your Carapark Sixteen-Two is going in the same direction! Restore and rebuild - especially because it's your family van. The thought probably horrifies you and your husband, but there's plenty of examples of people on the forum who have learnt as they've gone. Although I need to declare here that I have only ever had to maintain, not restore, so you probably shouldn't take any notice of what I say, but I'll keep on going anyway... The good thing about a van - whether restoring or maintaining - is that it's small, and you can do tasks in bite size pieces, when you have time. I can tell you that's true. Looking at the Carapark as a whole the job seems overwhelming, but looking at each item that needs to be done, they seem do-able. I guess the first task is to stop those leaks? You may want to have a chat to Stevej, who you know from both the forum and Facebook, and who has quite a lot of experience in dealing with toasters - including stopping leaks. Don Ricardo
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 14:05:04 GMT 10
I'd like nothing more than to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that stevej has found it's necessary to remove, clean, and then replace all of the shell pieces, with new adhesive and rivets… Is that correct? Although in between taking them off and putting them back on we'd have to attend to the rust in the steel frame… It's a biiiiig job, and it's the first one that needs doing (I'm counting gutting it as part of the same job, as it's necessary preparation). I'm afraid. I'm very afraid. This does bring me to my next cluster of photos, though… Unless I'm very much (and happily) mistaken, the rust in the frame is causing it to swell, which is popping the rivets and making the whole thing progressively exponentially worse. Oh, and the little door-in-door that opens to reveal the fly screen isn't closing properly anymore? Did I mention I'm very afraid???
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 15:09:10 GMT 10
The thought probably horrifies you and your husband, Ha! My partner has a house that's in much the same state as this van… big difference being that he has to live in his crazy project! So it's mostly just me that's horrified and daunted It's an ambitious (insane?) project to be taking on with no prior experience and a 3 year old underfoot… But I'm pretty keen to get into it… How that will work in practice… Who knows?
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Post by JBJ on Sept 12, 2015 17:51:15 GMT 10
Hi,
Hate to be a party pooper, but its impossible to realise how much work is involved involved in rebuilding an old neglected caravan, or car, or piece of furniture, etc.
All you can do, if you think about starting something, is assess whether you have the time , money, tools & motivativation to spend all of your spare time working on it. Money can be varied dependent on how much you do yourself, but I find regular trips to my local hardware shop & Bunnings occur whenever I work on the van.
I believe it would be difficult for a younger person to able dedicate the time required , & to finish the van in a reasonable period of time
I'm not trying to put enthusiatic repairers down , just to bring reality into the "enthusiastic" period, & to prevent rebuildable vans ( & cars) being destroyed by "gutting" them, then realising that they have bitten off something they shouldnt have.
I think for your first van, you should always try to buy a good well kept one, use it & enjoy what vintage caravanning is about, instead of spending all your spare time on a project that generally doesn't end up as good as you hoped.
Its being out there using them that really matters
But its still all fun
JBJ
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 20:33:31 GMT 10
Thanks JBJ , but I'm actively looking for a "ready to roll" vintage van… This Carapark is a very sentimental item for me, and if I don't do something with it soon there will be nothing left to save.
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Post by King Fisher on Sept 12, 2015 22:01:28 GMT 10
... But… where is restoration appropriate, and where is a re-build required? I'm really hoping for advice ... To answer this question take a little little look at our Fisher's Resto. Our little girl 'Bessie' was in a fairly bad state and we did a rebuild on it. Making a couple of discrete improvements along the way. Also worth a look is our current project Fisher's Rebuild which has just been started. You can clearly see from these two examples the difference between a van requiring a resto and the one requiring a rebuild. In my case I am not a chippy or builder, not even a tradie. I work in an office on a technical help desk, talking on the phone all day. Bessie was the first thing that I had ever restored and all of the wood working skills I learnt along the way as I worked my way through the problems. Many of my family and friends thought that I would never finish it (as I usually wouldn't) but I was very determined to prove them all wrong. I will say that by the end of restoring Bessie I now have a shed busting with tools and the greatest feeling of achieving something great, after the four years of the resto. Basically what I am saying here is that with perseverance and determination anything is possible. Timewise every spare moment is taken out at the van, and at the big green shed . I was there so much I got to know the staff on a first name basis... Money wise I hate to think what the total cost was but it was spread out over the four years, so I didn't find that too bad. Restoring an old van does take commitment, money and time but in the end it is well worth it. Personally I feel it would be a pity to see this great van trashed when from what I have seen it looks very salvageable. However in the end it is your decision and the owner. Hope this helps.
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Post by justanotheramy on Sept 12, 2015 22:26:22 GMT 10
Thanks for the encouragement, King Fisher Wow, Bessie had a working bee? I've had a few friends offer to help me, but… they have nooooo idea what they're volunteering for! I can't abuse their trust like that Because I have a 3 year old underfoot (she's my main project for a few more years ), it might take me a bit longer than 4 years… but if I take good notes and good photos and save what I can, I'll get there in the end Is hand-stripping the only option for cleaning the aluminium body panels once they're off? I can't get them… dipped? in… something…?
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