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Post by King Fisher on Jun 10, 2015 16:31:47 GMT 10
Maybe it's time to put the Phillip/Slot head screw debate to bed. Found this article www.acontinuouslean.com/2013/04/05/a-better-way-to-screw/As pointed out in this web page: "From the Wall Street Journal: The screw was invented in the early 30’s by Henry F. Phillips, a Portland, Oregon businessman. He knew that car makers needed a screw that could be driven with more torque and that would hold tighter than slotted screws. Car makers also needed a screw that would center quickly and easily, and could be used efficiently on an assembly line. The Phillips screw was designed so that it could be driven by an automated screw driver with increasing force until the tip of the driver popped out without ruining the screw head. So what many consider a design flaw is actually a feature (at least if you’re a car manufacturer). The Phillips screw first gained acceptance with Cadillac in the late 30’s. Although there is a Phillips Screw Co. today, the company never actually made Phillips screws or drivers. They were produced under license by other companies. Unlicensed knockoffs proliferated, so that in 1949, Mr. Phillips was stripped of his patent." According to it the Phillips head screw was invented in the late 30s, that means it is period correct equipment on any 50s van... Also it was designed to be a far superior alternative to the slot head screws. Not convinced yet have a look here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_F._Phillipsinventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/screwdriver.htminvent.answers.com/how-to/who-invented-the-phillips-head-screwdriverbytesdaily.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/origins-phillips-head-screw.html "With the drive to mass production of cars in the 1920’s, the traditional slotted screw was proving inadequate." So no more need to fee guilty using that superior replacement to the slot head screw.
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 10, 2015 17:54:33 GMT 10
I like your work King Fisher. I can feel all that unresolved guilt built up over the years from secretly using Phillips head screws in our van just m-e-l-t-i-n-g away... Maybe now I can meet fellow V V'ers and look them in the eye rather than just shuffling past with down turned eyes? Don Ricardo
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Post by shesgotthelook on Jun 10, 2015 20:24:06 GMT 10
Wash your mouth out Kam! It doesn't matter if Phillips heads are more practical, they look awful. That's all I'm saying on this matter.
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Post by sportsman 1 on Jun 10, 2015 22:42:33 GMT 10
While it is true that the Phillips head screw was INVENTED in AMERICA in the 1930's that does not mean everybody immediately started to use them then. I RESTORE Vintage and Classic vehicles for a living and I try not to use anything (visible) that is not correct to the vehicle in question. Some upgrades are performed but only those that can be hidden such as wiring. If the car, truck, caravan, etc was ORIGINALLY FITTED with Slot Head screws then that's what goes back on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it was fitted with Phillips when new then they are refitted. For years I have stockpiled slot head screws of all sorts (flat head countersunk, raised head countersunk, round head, pan head, etc, etc in both machine screws and wood screws for whatever happens to come through the door next, such as the First World War Trucks we restored for the Australian War Memorial. This required plain head (no manufacturers markings) coach bolts and square nuts in small and large sizes, along with original NOS Army Canvas all of which I was able to procure. Several vehicles I have restored have won Club and National Concours events, including a 1932 Delage D8s at Motorclassica. Worst case scenario we will make specific items to order. I PERSONALLY HATE seeing an old vehicle, caravan, etc with NON ORIGINAL fittings and fixtures when it is not that hard to source suitable period pieces. Having said all that if the owner is HAPPY with what they have then that is great for them. I wont upset them by bagging it, but I am allowed to have my own opinion. One thing I particularly detest is vans that are full of "stuff" that were never seen in them originally, microwaves, televisions, 3 dozen caravan motif cushions, etc. I know I am anal but please lets allow those who wish to RESTORE to ORIGINAL SPECIFICATIONS to do so without hassle, as we allow those who do not!!!!!!!!!!!!! The above is my personal opinion and I expect others, if not most others, to disagree with it, but god bless we live in a society that allows us to voice that opinion. Lets all go and do some caravanning
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 11, 2015 0:09:58 GMT 10
Oh bother, Sportsman1, You've given me a fit of the guilts again! Looks like I'll have to do a screw audit and then chat to you about where to find the appropriate screws. (Actually, I will do that! The problem is finding some of the smaller, chrome plated slothead screws for the cupboard hinges.) And, I'll have to remove that cool cushion with the picture of Driftwood on it... Very interesting info posted by King Fisher nevertheless. Don Ricardo
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Post by King Fisher on Jun 11, 2015 11:12:31 GMT 10
No problem sportsman 1, I am not offended in any way by you pointing out your personal view here. I know it's a topic which causes great divide however it's interesting that Phillips screws were available since the late 30s. Where a well informed and well traveled caravan builder could have got hold of them and used them. Personally, as you may realize, I prefer Phillips screws, easier to install and hold stronger. However in some cases I have used slots in my resto to keep the character in certain places, but they were a total B.... to work with.
Thanks Sportsman 1, we all now know who to ask for advise when trying to source those rare slots head screws.
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Post by sportsman 1 on Jun 11, 2015 13:29:19 GMT 10
Thanks also to you KF,
I was a little worried when I wrote the reply last night that I may offend but I am glad you have taken it the way I intended. Just trying to point out even though they are period correct in most cases they are not original fitment.
I have no particular problem using slots because I am a silly old bugger and have always used them. Having said that let me make a suggestion. If putting screws into new timber or new holes run a Phillips screw of the correct size in first (much easier to hold and start in a new hole) and after you have "threaded" the hole take the Phillips out and put a Slotted one in. Also use the next shortest length screw to what you want to have as the final screw to "thread" the hole so the final screw bites in hard when finally tightened. Oh, and always use some soap or some sort of lubrication so as to lessen the chance of breaking a screw off in the hole. This usually happens with modern, junk material Phillips screws when just about at the bottom of the hole because you can actually put more torque on the screw than it can take, does not happen so much with Slot Heads.
DR, if you are happy with what you have that's terrific (cushion included!) but if you want some screws please don't hesitate to contact me. Most of what I have are Nickle or Zinc plated but I have a shipload of small raised head slotted screws in Florentine Bronze that can be chromed if required.
Gee, I seem to be prattling on again, back to work Leigh.
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Post by King Fisher on Jun 11, 2015 13:52:35 GMT 10
Hay sportsman1 I might have to try those tricks some time. This is the type of golden info that is great to capture on this forum for any future renovators/repairers to be able to use.
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Post by mibosa on Jun 14, 2015 15:16:03 GMT 10
To King Fisher and Sportsman1, I am staying well out of the screw debate, but would like to know the name of the round washer type item that the screws sit in when attaching the aluminium skin to the vans please? Some of the ones present on my have the angled inner surface, intended to take countersunk screws? ?? Thanks, Bob.
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Post by kingswood308 on Jun 14, 2015 15:40:16 GMT 10
Mibosa. You can buy them in assorted sizes at Bunning's, I have a few packets of them.
They fit around the screw like a collar.
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Post by mibosa on Jun 14, 2015 17:26:08 GMT 10
Thanks Kingswood308.
Regards, Bob.
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Post by kingswood308 on Jun 14, 2015 18:56:38 GMT 10
I just had a look at what they are called Bob, Screw cap washers .
Cheers mate.
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Post by mibosa on Jun 14, 2015 19:02:47 GMT 10
Thanks kingswood308, soon after I lodged my thread I wet searching on ebay and found that they also called them eyelet-washers. Just another item on the list for my next trip to Bunnings!
Thanks again,
Bob
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Post by kingswood308 on Jun 14, 2015 19:03:27 GMT 10
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Post by mibosa on Jun 14, 2015 19:09:06 GMT 10
Thanks again, that helps me to look next visit. It is always dangerous on the wallet to wander aimlessly down the aisles until you get to what you want!
Regards,
Bob
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Post by kingswood308 on Jun 14, 2015 22:37:59 GMT 10
I hear you loud and clear on that Bob. Have a top week mate
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Post by Don Ricardo on Jun 14, 2015 22:51:56 GMT 10
Hi Kingswood308,
Don't apologise for posting the photo of the caravan, Now that you've started tell us more...
It looks like a really interesting van that I'm sure we would all like to hear more about (on a separate thread, of course).
Don Ricardo
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annienpete
New Member
Email now Ammt1961@gmail.com Old address doesnt work. System won't accept new address!!!
Posts: 34
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Post by annienpete on Aug 22, 2015 15:33:49 GMT 10
Dear fellow VV restorers, Have discovered website called Classic Fasteners with plenty of options for slotted head screws. Any one purchased from this site?
In recent restoration hunting work I picked up a pack of nylon washers, big number and all metric scew sizes, from City Plastics Adelaide. This will help with dissimilar metals issue between steel screws n aluminium sheeting. Hope this is helpful. Annie
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Post by humpty2 on Aug 22, 2015 17:30:18 GMT 10
I have mentioned Classic Fasteners several times on this site.....The only place to go to IMHO
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Post by Don Ricardo on Aug 23, 2015 14:59:41 GMT 10
Hi Annienpete and Humpty2,
Always good to hear about reliable, helpful suppliers.
I note that Classic Fasterners is listed in the Suppliers thread in the Technical section.
Don Ricardo
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Post by King Fisher on May 6, 2018 16:45:31 GMT 10
Hi guys as you know I prefer the phillips screws. However for the purists our there i stumbled across this supplier who has marine ply but also sells new slot screws. Matbe worth looking at if you are chasing slot screws: boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9
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