Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 20:12:59 GMT 10
Is anyone out there running electric brakes with 13" early Holden wheels? I'm told all electric backing plates are 10" which won't fit inside a 13" wheel. Any thoughts? Hi Yellowuki I am pretty sure the smallest wheels you can run electric brakes on are 14". I seem to remember seeing a complete "Hub to Hub " electric brake set up at a trailer supply place , and it had 14" ROH rims on it with early Holden ( Up to 1971) stud pattern You can buy the rims new for around $55.00 ea Reddo
|
|
|
Post by Koala on Apr 20, 2014 20:39:51 GMT 10
Is anyone out there running electric brakes with 13" early Holden wheels? I'm told all electric backing plates are 10" which won't fit inside a 13" wheel. Any thoughts? Hi I am running electric brakes with 13" Holden rims. Purchased from 'spinnythings' Koala
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 21, 2014 8:07:12 GMT 10
Thanks for the information. The reason for wanting to keep the 13" wheels is that the van was purchased new by my Great Grandparents and as such I try to keep every detail I can original. I have considered putting a Vacuum setup on it for originality however it's fairly impractical.
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 21, 2014 15:28:32 GMT 10
Not trying to start any problems here, if you have a look at the available 13" tyres and their ratings and pressure capabilities and compare with the 14" the 14's are much more capable of todays speeds and the margin of safety between the tyres is huge. We have tyre pressure monitors on the 68 Viscount registered weight 850 kgs and we were running near the maximum pressure for the 13" light truck tyres we were using. One tyre on the van kept loosing pressure, about 20 psi every hour and we would stop and pump it up again as changing tyres meant that someone was going to be covered in mud at the time. On arrival at our destination the offending wheel was removed and taken to a tyre centre and after dunking, poking and prodding the wheel and tyre the only explanation was that the tyre bead had broken the seal against the rim and was leaking air under certain conditions and that we should have had higher pressure for the weight and conditions. I know that this can occur with 14" wheels also, but since changing to the 14's we run about 50psi and the van handles better and runs along better. I doubt that anyone would notice the difference between the 13's and 14" wheels and the electric brakes have no issue. Possibly similar looking wheels can be purchased that what are already fitted and would give you a bigger margin of safety in the load carrying department. Not trying to be pushy, just expressing my thoughts. Graham I can pick the difference between a 14" and a 13" wheel from miles away. Our philosophy when traveling with these old vehicles is to keep as much originality as possible, the reason for the electric brakes is legality as the van is overweight in this day and age and the insurance company wouldn't pay if an accident occurred even if we weren't at fault. We have a tendency to travel at about 80km/h and have done about 5000km on the 9 ply 13" tyres and had no issues. I do use a sway break so when my partner drives the outfit the b doubles with their wonderful turbulence don't cause too much of a fright! Our van is slightly over 1000kg when loaded up for a bush camping trip (that's with gas bottles, Waeco fridge etc) Thanks everyone for your input.
|
|
|
Post by humpty2 on Apr 21, 2014 19:14:05 GMT 10
You can use the 13" wheels from disc braked HR & HD...I have electric brakes with said 13" wheels. Any of the 13s with rivets will NOT fit over the 10" drums. Personally I would use 14' wheels if I could, but they won't fit in the Sunliners wheel space. I am a bit of a stickler for originality too yellowuki.....but when safety is concerned I lean towards safety. You can get some good wheel discs for 14" too.
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 21, 2014 19:17:17 GMT 10
You can use the 13" wheels from disc braked HR & HD...I have electric brakes with said 13" wheels. Any of the 13s with rivets will NOT fit over the 10" drums. Personally I would use 14' wheels if I could, but they won't fit in the Sunliners wheel space. I am a bit of a stickler for originality too yellowuki.....but when safety is concerned I lean towards safety. You can get some good wheel discs for 14" too. By riveted ones you mean EH type? John
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 19:30:45 GMT 10
The conversation about brakes came up the other day when the bro and I where having a Saturday arvo ale in the shed... Please note.. this conversation took place before the ales took over our better judgement
I mentioned about how the 64 panelvan rolled and steered easier with 14 inch wheels .. But.. I was about to fit 13" wheels back on the panelvan for the trip down the snowys with the 56 supalite cadet on behind.. Why... better acceleration and and gearing better suited to alpine road work.
Bro chimed in with... and better braking!! At first I didn't catch on to what he had just said.. I listened while he explained that it due to the smaller diameter of the 13" rim it would have more effective brakes..same brakes... just more effective
13" wheel = Less rolling diameter to slow down that that of a 14" wheel. less inertia.
Makes sense aye...
How many times have you had to use an extension bar to "crack " a frozen nut. The bigger the radius the less effort is required to crack the nut. Therefore.. The smaller the wheel rim and tyre height.. the less effort required from the braking system to stop the wheel going around.
Cheers Reddo
|
|
|
Post by humpyboy on Apr 21, 2014 21:35:31 GMT 10
Makes sense to me Mr Reddo, never really stopped to think about it but I see were your coming from.
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 21, 2014 21:43:16 GMT 10
I had a 14 foot bondy with 15" wheels which rolled alond much better than this one...having said that I am not prepared to change the wheels and that was the purpose of this whole thread, not to discuss pros and cons of changing wheels. I am interested in my options with 13" wheels, not 14"
|
|
|
Post by Daggsey on Apr 21, 2014 22:57:31 GMT 10
Hi Yellowuki,
I fitted electric brakes to "Lady Madonna" during our travels in NSW in 2009. Can't quite remember what I did other than having to cut down the backing plate to fit inside the 13" rims. All worked a treat with some modification with an angle grinder.
The fitting of 14" rims was never an option because there was literally no room in "Madonna's" wheel arches to do so.....something you'll probably find with any vintage caravan. I know I originally looked at the 14" option before I left on the big trip because Effacy had 14" rims fitted and we could have travelled with 1 less spare.
Just spend the money and then get the angle grinder/cutter out.....it's definitely worth the effort, especially when the over-riders aren't working Daggsey the metal butcher
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 6:34:55 GMT 10
I had a 14 foot bondy with 15" wheels which rolled alond much better than this one...having said that I am not prepared to change the wheels and that was the purpose of this whole thread, not to discuss pros and cons of changing wheels. I am interested in my options with 13" wheels, not 14" The old chestnut.. Originality versus safety.. Then again.. if we where talking originality we wouldn't be considering electric brakes would we?? We are only talking "external appearance originality" Can I recommend that you ignore all comments and opinions made here about 14" and 13" wheels and set about sorting the problem out on your own.. Sometimes it is better to learn through your own experiences ( Be they good or bad) than to take advice from others. If you tackle the problem yourself and succeed you will gain a sense of achievement .. and the "Know How" to reply to anyone elses messages here that are looking at doing the conversion to electric brakes.. Please keep us informed of your findings. Regards Reddo
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 22, 2014 7:45:47 GMT 10
I had a 14 foot bondy with 15" wheels which rolled alond much better than this one...having said that I am not prepared to change the wheels and that was the purpose of this whole thread, not to discuss pros and cons of changing wheels. I am interested in my options with 13" wheels, not 14" The old chestnut.. Originality versus safety.. Then again.. if we where talking originality we wouldn't be considering electric brakes would we?? We are only talking "external appearance originality" Can I recommend that you ignore all comments and opinions made here about 14" and 13" wheels and set about sorting the problem out on your own.. Sometimes it is better to learn through your own experiences ( Be they good or bad) than to take advice from others. If you tackle the problem yourself and succeed you will gain a sense of achievement .. and the "Know How" to reply to anyone elses messages here that are looking at doing the conversion to electric brakes.. Please keep us informed of your findings. Regards Reddo Thanks Reddo, but those who have stuck to the topic have provided all the information I need.
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 22, 2014 7:47:09 GMT 10
Hi Yellowuki,
I fitted electric brakes to "Lady Madonna" during our travels in NSW in 2009. Can't quite remember what I did other than having to cut down the backing plate to fit inside the 13" rims. All worked a treat with some modification with an angle grinder.
The fitting of 14" rims was never an option because there was literally no room in "Madonna's" wheel arches to do so.....something you'll probably find with any vintage caravan. I know I originally looked at the 14" option before I left on the big trip because Effacy had 14" rims fitted and we could have travelled with 1 less spare.
Just spend the money and then get the angle grinder/cutter out.....it's definitely worth the effort, especially when the over-riders aren't working Daggsey the metal butcher
Thanks Daggsey, I often think of that post you made when your wheel collapsed! And when your towbar broke, I had the towbar on the Valiant bend significantly due to the use of those level rider things!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 10:37:13 GMT 10
The old chestnut.. Originality versus safety.. Then again.. if we where talking originality we wouldn't be considering electric brakes would we?? We are only talking "external appearance originality" Can I recommend that you ignore all comments and opinions made here about 14" and 13" wheels and set about sorting the problem out on your own.. Sometimes it is better to learn through your own experiences ( Be they good or bad) than to take advice from others. If you tackle the problem yourself and succeed you will gain a sense of achievement .. and the "Know How" to reply to anyone elses messages here that are looking at doing the conversion to electric brakes.. Please keep us informed of your findings. Regards Reddo Thanks Reddo, but those who have stuck to the topic have provided all the information I need. All the Theory you need... Let us know how you get on with the practical application....any pitfalls etc Also can you please let us know where to go to buy the bits and pieces to complete the modified / electric brake assembly. Lets hope the angle grinder doesn't get a work out !!!. Regards Reddo
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 22, 2014 10:46:56 GMT 10
This may cause a huge uproar...but the other option I have is vacuum over Hydraulic
|
|
|
Post by akeepsake on Apr 22, 2014 12:53:16 GMT 10
Giday Yellowuki been silently following this thread with interest and it is interesting how you coming back to vac brakes! My Jennison has them and I have the hand controller as well. I being a fairly newcomer to all things VV have talked to some old hats and the general consensus is you spend as much getting fittings,tank and all the car related items required to get it up an running as you would on electric brake retro fit (only what I was told!!) Like you I'm all for originality so understand wanting to keep the 13" rims As Reddo sort of said opinions are like backsides, everone has one! But I'm sure when you sit on yours and scratch your head you'll come up with a solution and we can all benefit from it! Don't get me wrong advice and opinions are ok ! Anyway would love to hear what you come up with does your van have hydraulic vac assisted or cable acc assisted? Cheers Andrew
|
|
|
Post by Daggsey on Apr 22, 2014 14:58:18 GMT 10
G'day Yellowuki
What I meant by "over-riders" was not "ride-levellers", but over-ride brake.
I agree with Reddo the challenge is to work these things out for yourself and get self satisfaction (like I did with "Madonna"). On the flipside of that is, why re-invent the wheel.....isn't that the very reason for a forum, i.e. to seek advice from others?
Daggsey
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 19:44:41 GMT 10
Yo... I have the answer to anyone and everyones vintage van braking problems. Its the same philosophy I use when driving the old tow cars with original braking system....."unhitched" i.e: no van attached. As soon as you get in the car with van attached... 1. set mind back fifty years and remind yourself "I am not driving the 4wheel disc braked late model car today". 2. set your gaze ahead 10 cars... if there is no cars .. just pretend ...and set your focus 10 car lengths ahead. By the time you focus on that point at 60kph .. you will be there !! 3. Don't get in the habit of reading the number plate in front of you.. at 50 year old plus ... if you can read the letters and numbers you are too close. 4. Allow a gap of 1 car length for every 10kph of speed... as they teach at the stay upright courses.. "Scan and plan" 5. Double No:4 in wet weather 6. Triple that when towing 7. If you have mechanical over-ride brakes set the adjustment so that you can just fit your little finger between the lever and the coupling piston when the lever is pulled hard on by hand 8. Once you have the above settings right... paint all the coupling notches that you have managed to pull the locking lever up past GREEN. Paint the rest of the serrations towards the back of the coupling RED. 9. If at any stage you can pull the lever into the red zone it is time to adjust your brakes again 10. NEVER forget to release the mechanical override brake lever before driving off. 11. Never forget to flip the lock out plate on mechanical brakes back to the open position after reversing.... otherwise the next time you go to use them going forward , you will have no brakes !!!! 12. .. and this one I learnt from old blokes with bowlers hats on the rear parcel tray of the towcar.. NEVER be influenced or pressured by the following traffic... Just turn all your mirrors up.. slide the terry toweling hat down over the brow.... and motor along sucking in the scenery .. totally oblivious to the traffic behind you...Your brakes will never fail you. The best part of all of the above,,, No conversion required ... apart from driving habits.. It costs nothing to implement... Applies to any sort of braking system Applies to any size towcar and van with old braking system.. cable mechanical/ juice / vacumn and juice. Applies to any size wheel.... ooops .. that's another topic for another day Cheerio Happy stopping Reddo
|
|
|
Post by yellowuki on Apr 22, 2014 20:08:00 GMT 10
Giday Yellowuki been silently following this thread with interest and it is interesting how you coming back to vac brakes! My Jennison has them and I have the hand controller as well. I being a fairly newcomer to all things VV have talked to some old hats and the general consensus is you spend as much getting fittings,tank and all the car related items required to get it up an running as you would on electric brake retro fit (only what I was told!!) Like you I'm all for originality so understand wanting to keep the 13" rims As Reddo sort of said opinions are like backsides, everone has one! But I'm sure when you sit on yours and scratch your head you'll come up with a solution and we can all benefit from it! Don't get me wrong advice and opinions are ok ! Anyway would love to hear what you come up with does your van have hydraulic vac assisted or cable acc assisted? Cheers Andrew To be honest Andrew, having had the conversation with my Local "brake man", I'm anticipating that if I go to the vacuum option the cost may exceed that of fitting electric brakes. In my little brain, a vacuum setup over hydraulic brakes kind of makes more sense than electric magnets, that being said I understand that they are the ducks guts of trailer brakes. I don't really spare any expense with this van but I can't see myself spending money on an override system alone, given that I think override brakes are just a token gesture to "keep it legal". I am more than satisfied/comfortable towing the van unbraked, as we don't exceed 50mp/h when towing and keep our huge stopping distance (as Reddo suggested). The whole reason for wanting to fit brakes is legality, however if we are going to spend money on anything it might as well be the best thing for our application (i.e, keeping my wheels, being able to control from the car etc). I find it a shame that Vicroads can't make you go and put seatbelts in a car that didn't come with them new, however they can make you go back and put brakes on a trailer which didn't have them new....but, them's the brakes as they say!!!!!
|
|