oupa
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R.O.F. (retired old fart)
Posts: 24
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Post by oupa on Apr 16, 2014 17:18:32 GMT 10
Friends, I do not want to open a can of worms, but when does a renovation turn a vintage van into a home built replica?
Surely there must be a point when so much of the original parts and workmanship has been replaced by the restorer that the van can no longer be deemed to be vintage....nor built by the original manufacturer.
For example:
If I replace the chassis, vast majority of internal as well as external cladding, the cupboards and use new old fixtures/fittings in my vintage Franklin.....can I still call it a vintage Franklin and badge it as such?
Dirk
P.S. I do not own a Franklin....just using it as an example!
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 16, 2014 18:22:13 GMT 10
It's a topic that keeps coming round and round on the forum every couple of years or so, Dirk. The opinions depend on people's own individual interpretation. I'm in the same boat with my Newcastly project, and I've steadfastly avoided referring to it as a "vintage van" after all the work I've done on it, mainly because it has been changed considerably from what it was originally. There will be people at the purist end of the spectrum who will only accept a certain criteria. There will be people at the "I-don't-give-a-stuff" end of the spectrum that really don't give a stuff. And there will be people everywhere in between who will have varying opinions. So, what's the truth? The way I look at it personally is that if the majority of the public who will look at my van say that it is an 'old van', then I've achieved my aim. I can truthfully say my van was originally built in 1960, and conveniently leave out the fact I've changed a lot of stuff in it. Most members of the public don't know about the term "vintage" in relation to ages of caravans, so they aren't going to be critical of whether it is or it isn't actually a true vintage van. I guess it depends on who you are trying to "impress" with the final result of all your hard work. People who look at my progress in my shed say it looks fantastic. They don't know any better about authenticity. I'm more than happy to have those people on my side. That'll do me fine...  cheers, Al. |
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oupa
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R.O.F. (retired old fart)
Posts: 24
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Post by oupa on Apr 16, 2014 18:40:01 GMT 10
Al, I have read the thread on your 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project and I have learned a lot.
I hope to be using some of the methods and information when tackling a little van that has come my way.
Dirk
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 16, 2014 20:12:05 GMT 10
Dirk, I actually have a little in-joke with myself that perhaps I should stop calling my van a "Newcastle" van and start calling it a "Maitland" van - something that is not exactly Newcastle but is reasonably close to it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 20:14:33 GMT 10
Al, I have read the thread on your 1960 Newcastle 10ft 8ins project and I have learned a lot. I hope to be using some of the methods and information when tackling a little van that has come my way. Dirk To quote a line used many times over the years here on the forum.. "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. then it IS a Duck" Back about 2005 one of the forum members from South Australia completely rebuilt a Castle van using all new materials to make templates off the original panels etc... Everyone applauded his efforts and skill . It turned out to be a wanderfull van. I almost raised your question back then ... but thought.. what the heck , at least he was having a go and not just fantasizing about one day owning a van and doing it up !!! Joe average would not pick the difference between the totally rebuilt(dare I say.. Replica??) van and an original...and so I said nothing ..but mumbled.... "If it looks like a duck....." Regards Reddo |
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oupa
New Member
R.O.F. (retired old fart)
Posts: 24
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Post by oupa on Apr 16, 2014 20:30:26 GMT 10
Dirk, I actually have a little in-joke with myself that perhaps I should stop calling my van a "Newcastle" van and start calling it a "Maitland" van - something that is not exactly Newcastle but is reasonably close to it. Perhaps you sould call it a Newcast-AL  Dirk |
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Post by King Fisher on Apr 17, 2014 11:20:01 GMT 10
I think some lee way needs to be considered when restoring a van. A lot of it would be based on what you have to start with. Our van was complete so we worked on the principal 80% Restoration and 20% Renovation. However if there is severe damage then more will need to be rebuilt or replaced to bring it back to it's originally intended shape and form. But in my opinion care needs to be taken to keep the original charm otherwise it just becomes something it's not. For us there was no question to modify when it related to safety. Especially as Bessie originally had no brakes, rubber 240v wiring and Bakelite external socket. However most of the interior we have kept true to the original design, even the kitchen still has no built in fridge. A lot of it is up to what you are happy with and we totally adore our little Bessie even with the mods we did ( Fisher's Resto and Bessie's Travels). |
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Post by tooleyau on Apr 17, 2014 14:59:29 GMT 10
Here is my 2 bobs worth.
I consider a full replica as a van that has been built from scratch. Something like I did with my teardrop. Built it from a set of plans, but of course those plans must relate to a vintage van.
This I would consider a vintage van albeit a replica.
If you bought a van in 1950 and used it regularly then over time bits and pieces wear our and you would repair them, or you may add in things, like a new fridge, radio, update the wiring, gas etc while still keeping it as a usable van. So over time the van changes. So while it's not original, it's still a vintage van.
A restoration is taking an old van, like the one above that may be in various stages of decay, or it's been let go, therefore it will need some minor, or major repairs. When the job is complete it may be restored to it's original specs, or improved like the above scenario. It's still a vintage van.
A feasible scenario could be that over time the entire van has had to be replaced, not all at once, but gradually as bits wear out. Or accidents have happened. I think most people would still consider this a vintage van , so whether the complete replacement takes 20 years, or 20 weeks it's still a vintage van.
As mentioned above, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck,quacks like a duck, the it's a duck.
SO to answer the original question, when is a vv not a vv. Unless it does not look like a vv then it's always a vv.
To support this i reference the vintage car movement. Given that it can be difficult to source original parts for many cars the movement is quite happy to accept improvements to cars while keeping with the original concept of the car.
My 1935 Buick restored to original specs, while adding in better brakes from a later model Buick for safety reasons, and 12 volts lights and starter rather than the 6 volt is still considered a historic vehicle. my 1935 Buick with Holden front suspension, steering, diff and brakes, Chevy 350 V8, commodore automatic gear box,air conditioning, 8 speaker stereo etc, etc is not considered a historic vehicle. Both cars are identical when parked by side. So I think similar concepts should apply.
Just my thoughts.
Just my opinion.
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Post by kaybee on Apr 17, 2014 15:38:32 GMT 10
....lotta duck farmers around here....  |
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Post by JBJ on Apr 17, 2014 17:30:41 GMT 10
Hi KB
I guess if I cant say anything good to add to this topic, I should revise this post (as I am doing) & say nothing.
Quack
JBJ
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Post by Franklin1 on Apr 17, 2014 18:29:50 GMT 10
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